Off-grid in the city is illegal ?

[Supervstech]

This month July through August is always the highest usage I'm around 150 KWH a day. Duct work is sealed between flat roof and ceiling so it would mean lot of work to re-seal any duct work. I agree I would need a full solar permitted and contracted system if I wanted to hybrid grid tie and limit the feedback at that point might as well sell back in the winter. I could just start out with offloading the AC during the summer months then in the winter we don't use the heater at all even if it gets into the 20F range we like it cold. Probably why the AC is using so much energy we live in the wrong state but can't leave now until I retire. In the winter I would want to use the power for something else like pool pump, air compressor, stove. Electric stove pulls 4500 watts of power oven is in use. We do dry cloths outside we use off peak for drying but now off peak doesn't mean as much as it used to.

I have a hot water heat pump summertime I set it to 100% heat pump barely uses any power because the garage is so hot goes from 80-140F in 12-13 minutes. It's using about 1.5KWH a day in summer month in winter like January it gets up to 15-18 kwh a day. Disregard that temp to right saying average temp was 102F it reached 116F on 7/22.

Ok, the ABSOLUTE BEST INVESTMENT you can make in your home is to reduce thw load required to heat and cool it.
If you have attic ductwork, either replace it with modernR8 insulated sealed ductwork, or bring the attic into conditioned a
Space and seal that off.
Sprayfoam attic envelopes make a massive reduction on the energy load.
Couple with a radiant reflection barrier, and the hvac load is cut by 30% or more.

I agree with others go to home depot, get a 6 circuit transfer switch and a generator hookup, get it permitted, and bobs your uncle, easy transfer to "generator" supply power.

DO NOT MOUNT PANELS ON THE ROOF OF YOUR HOME,unless you get them permitted as well...
But if a minibarn type shed is allowed, nothing g says you can't place them on there.

 

[Supervstech]

That is a lot, and while days are longer, high temperatures reduce production and increase demand.
The most I've ever observed was just over 100 kWh/day, and that was a cool spring day.

If you get 6 hours effective sun, need about 25kW of inverter and 25kW (PTC or NOCT) of PV.
Two arrays tilted to about 10:00 AM and 3:00 PM summer sun, wired in parallel, could be better with flattened power curve. Then maybe 15kW or 20kW of inverter would effectively utilize the production



Consider a PV-direct A/C, hopefully designed to consume 100% of available PV. Have that on a thermostat set lower than your grid-powered central unit. That would use all available PV for cooling, only draw from grid when that is insufficient.

This PV direct mini-split might do it:

EG4 Hybrid Solar Mini-Split Air Conditioner Heat Pump AC/DC | 12000 BTU | SEER2 22 | Energy Star Certified | Plug-N-Cool Do-It-Yourself Installation

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I'd like to boost efficiency of an AC by dumping heat to water instead of hot ambient air. Maybe a mist would help cool condenser, or maybe that would be a problem for corrosion or minerals - I would think the HVAC guys here have seen it tried. My A/C has a long copper tube from outside condenser to inside evaporator. I'd like to put a water jacket around that and circulate to pool.

Search for desuperheater plenty of them for sale.
You can make your own, but it's not as easy as you think,and the refrigerant needs to be carefully adjusted for the added subcool added to the system.
A TXV or EXV system is needed with them to prevent slugging the compressor with liquid refrigerant.

They help both heating and cooling loads... sort of a poor man's geothermal.

 

[Consumerbot3418]

Sprayfoam attic envelopes make a massive reduction on the energy load.

Would this statement also apply to homes without ductwork in the attic?

 

[Supervstech]

Would this statement also apply to homes without ductwork in the attic?

Certainly.
Reducing the attic heat buildup and reflecting the solar gain away from the roof will drastically reduce the energy bill.
And thw thermal insulation and attic sealing will better hold in winter heat.

A similar improvement is Gaines by moving the floor insulation to the perimeter of the crawlspace and sealing the earth with a pair of 12 mil liners.

 

[Supervstech]

Would this statement also apply to homes without ductwork in the attic?

I find it amazing all the ads touting window replacements as the end all be all energy saver in a home.

I perform Manual J load calculation all the time, and single pane windows with a storm window are nearly the same energy wise...
Barely any difference in the calculation...

Only way new windows will improve your energy usage is if they are missing panes...

 

[k490]

Ok, the ABSOLUTE BEST INVESTMENT you can make in your home is to reduce thw load required to heat and cool it.
If you have attic ductwork, either replace it with modernR8 insulated sealed ductwork, or bring the attic into conditioned a
Space and seal that off.
Sprayfoam attic envelopes make a massive reduction on the energy load.
Couple with a radiant reflection barrier, and the hvac load is cut by 30% or more.

I agree with others go to home depot, get a 6 circuit transfer switch and a generator hookup, get it permitted, and bobs your uncle, easy transfer to "generator" supply power.

DO NOT MOUNT PANELS ON THE ROOF OF YOUR HOME,unless you get them permitted as well...
But if a minibarn type shed is allowed, nothing g says you can't place them on there.

My home has no attic because it has a flat roof. I do have a foam roof that does help with head has some R factor. Lot of homes in Arizona have no attic type of architecture.

 

[Supervstech]

Yup, for a flat roof design, adding a reflective coating to the roofing, and foaming the hell out of the deck sheeting is the best you can do.

 

[Supervstech]

I lived in Tucson for a year (go Trojans class of 85) and remember the flat roofs all over.
Adobe is far superior...
But uncommon.

Similar to the home design in Iran when I lived there... barf paru beconan

 

[Mark-]

find it very specifically laid out under the general provisions section

I looked some time ago and all I could find for the "State", specifically said NEC requirements are delegated to "municipalities" and new NEC codes were automatically adopted, when released, every two years. Perhaps I read it wrong. Or other sources exist I could not find.

 

[k490]

I lived in Tucson for a year (go Trojans class of 85) and remember the flat roofs all over.
Adobe is far superior...
But uncommon.

Similar to the home design in Iran when I lived there... barf paru beconan

I would never buy a flat roof house again just a PITA. I agree with windows we held out on the old 1976 single pain until last year. Didn't really change the energy usage. I think it made difference where the sun was right on the window you could feel how hot the glass was. One nice thing I did like about new windows was cut down the noise by a big factor going to double pane. Have a neighbor who likes to have loud parties when I close up the windows can hardly hear them.

 

[A Boss]

I looked some time ago and all I could find for the "State", specifically said NEC requirements are delegated to "municipalities" and new NEC codes were automatically adopted, when released, every two years. Perhaps I read it wrong. Or other sources exist I could not find.

Well the way the plumbing is if you have your own well and you don't get caught you can pretty much get away with anything building wise. If you are on the grid at all or you have neighbors that hate you or you have county guys drive by then it can be a problem. Rural areas like you are talking about can be super relaxed and not enforce anything because they have that right. If I were you and I wanted to put in a transfer switch i would call your electrical provider and the counties building department and get permission, because in plumbing there approval is law and they may just say they don't care just make sure you are talking to the right one and record it so you can sue em if they try to hem you up later.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

You absolutely can go partially or fully off grid in Florida.
As per the thread linked, a few of us here have done so or in my case still building.
But I was running just my AC compressor via solar panels laid around in my back yard when FPL were upgrading the lines to underground, and nothing was ever said to me about the lash up I had.
Solar sales people are the worst, tell them to eff off.

That's what I do. Run the ac off of solar saves about $300 a month.

Either of you guys have write ups on this?

 

[Badfrogg]

Since I spent my whole weekend studying the Florida Building Code I think it might be good to start a thread where I can distill down all the rules I have discovered so far. This thread is kind of all over the palace now.

I would also like to get other folks to help. Like a small group that can help DIY folks and owner builders navigate the laws better. But I would like to keep it focused on just the laws and permitting.

 

[Mark-]

...the counties building department...

Assuming such a department exist.

 

[A Boss]

Assuming such a department exist.

Someone has that authority in every Texas county. May not go by the title but certainly has the authority to assess fines and fees if so desired. Money and power is the name of the game.

 

[Mark-]

Someone has that authority in every Texas county. May not go by the title but certainly has the authority to assess fines and fees if so desired. Money and power is the name of the game.

I do not know that to be true. Please point me to one link/reference/statute/etc. to support the assertion.

 

[Consumerbot3418]

Certainly.
Reducing the attic heat buildup and reflecting the solar gain away from the roof will drastically reduce the energy bill.
And thw thermal insulation and attic sealing will better hold in winter heat.

My energy bill is the availability fee only, so it won't get much lower than that. But I get what you're saying. How would reflecting solar gain away apply to a roof covered with panels?

A similar improvement is Gaines by moving the floor insulation to the perimeter of the crawlspace and sealing the earth with a pair of 12 mil liners.

I'm on a concrete slab, but I may end up investigating my options, at least around the perimeter. It does glow on the IR camera in winter.

This thread is kind of all over the palace now.

I'm sorry...

 

[A Boss]

I do not know that to be true. Please point me to one link/reference/statute/etc. to support the assertion.

The sunset act in texas is the legislation governing plumbing law for all plumbing in Texas it doesn't matter which hidden corner you are in. Enforcement of said law is executive branch of government different branch of government if no local executive branch it doesn't mean I can't call in one of the 9 state employees who work in the executive branch and given state wide authority to assess you fines starting at $4000.00 and additional $1000.00 for each day you have a leach field septic instead of the new more expensive aerobic septic.

 

[watchdoc]

Since I spent my whole weekend studying the Florida Building Code I think it might be good to start a thread where I can distill down all the rules I have discovered so far. This thread is kind of all over the palace now.

I would also like to get other folks to help. Like a small group that can help DIY folks and owner builders navigate the laws better. But I would like to keep it focused on just the laws and permitting.

I agree this thread has gone wayyy off topic but I still think you are overcomplicating the situation. For a 1kw solar setup running a single 20 amp circuit, just install a simple generator transfer switch with a permit and keep your mouth shut about solar. Just don't install panels on your house and noone is gonna bother you if you install a few panels on a shed or a homemade ground mount.

 

[Badfrogg]

I still think you are overcomplicating the situation. For a 1kw solar setup running a single 20 amp circuit, just install a simple generator transfer switch with a permit and keep your mouth shut about solar. Just don't install panels on your house and no one is gonna bother you if you install a few panels on a shed or a homemade ground mount.

Absolutely. I am on the same page. But my 1kw setup is just for me to study real word vs. my math. I was not going to install on my roof. Ground mounting 4 panels is not going to raise any problems, and if it did, it is no problem for me to disconnect them.

The takeaway is that this is suppose to be a prelude to a whole house system.

I already have a generator transfer that was permitted years ago (Florida, hurricanes, generator, as it were). It however does the whole house. For this little test I will need to pull my one circuit off the main panel, install separate isolated panel that is fed directly from my inverter. Now doing that may not be permittable and I will have to cheat it. I am not the type that likes to do such a thing but, 'say la vie'.

 

[ungrounded]

Either of you guys have write ups on this?

Write up???Dont get it.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Write up???Dont get it.

Build thread or other description of your system.

 

[HarryN]

At least for me personally, when you decide to make your dedicated thread to regulations in Florida, I would like to encourage you to put the information in the section of the forum that is all set up for it.

For very selfish reasons - it makes it easier for me to find it in the future and it sounds like you are making real progress on making it easier to understand.

Sizing, Planning, Codes and Regulations

Energy Audits, Roof Planning, NEC, Local Ordinances, TOU Plans and more!

diysolarforum.com

 

[Kenny_]

I am a homeowner in Florida. I started down the road of DIY solar and now find that there is a quagmire of rules and restrictions. What is worse is that I can't seem to verify any truth or facts. If someone says that I am not allowed to do something, that is fine, but I would like to see the laws for myself.

I have been told that I cannot install solar myself and must hire a company. - Can't find the law though.
I have been told that any solar installed on my property must be connected to the grid. - Can't find that law either.
I though I would just go pull a permit, make some drawing, follow some codes, get inspected and all would be good... Not how it is working out though.

Do I need a contractor or a lawyer? Holy smokes!

Yeah...same here in Denver Metro Area... I actually placed an order for panels etc yesterday thinking I'd go rogue but then backed out an canceled...may still do it or not....what they don't know and all that....

I'd be very skeptical about that 'grid tie requirement' ... can't imagine that is a law/requirement...

 

[watchdoc]

Absolutely. I am on the same page. But my 1kw setup is just for me to study real word vs. my math. I was not going to install on my roof. Ground mounting 4 panels is not going to raise any problems, and if it did, it is no problem for me to disconnect them.

The takeaway is that this is suppose to be a prelude to a whole house system.

I already have a generator transfer that was permitted years ago (Florida, hurricanes, generator, as it were). It however does the whole house. For this little test I will need to pull my one circuit off the main panel, install separate isolated panel that is fed directly from my inverter. Now doing that may not be permittable and I will have to cheat it. I am not the type that likes to do such a thing but, 'say la vie'.

Again, you are overcomplicating for a single circuit. The EZ generator transfer switch I mentioned earlier is UL listed and costs $89. It's very easy to get approved.