Pimp my Pop-Up, system check?

[Rednecktek]

So I'm hoping to pick up a new-to-me 1999 Coleman pop-up trailer on Tuesday and I've already started thinking about how I'm going to pimp it out so I can just grab & go when I'm on this side of the mountains. I've already got on the To-Do list:

Flip the axle so I have ground clearance
Build 2 12v 280Ah batteries with heaters
Replace the propane/12v fridge with a dorm fridge
Cut bubble-wrap-mylar insulation inserts for all the windows
Replace the roof lights with LED's
Add in some USB-C PD and 2.1a outlets

But for here, I'd like a sanity check and some input on the new electrical and solar system:



4x 10BB 200w Bi-Facial panels
2x 280Ah homemade batteries (EVE cells, JBD BMS)
Ionic 2Kw 12v AIO Solar Inverter
4p Combiner Box
LNEX Shunt
Bus Bar
AC and DC DIN rail breakers to replace the existing power center
200a Class-T for inverter
MEGA fuses for lift motor and DC bus (need to get to the data plate on the lift motor to size the fuse)

All my wire is the silicone wrapped high temp wire so I'm pretty sure all my gauges are correct.

So, a couple questions for y'all:

1: Does anyone see any glaring errors?
2: Is there any reason I can't connect the inverter Negative to the chassis?
3: While I'm mounting the panels on the roof with VHB tape and aluminum unistrut, is there any reason NOT to put down the mylar reflective coating under them? They'll be a couple-three inches off the roof.

Photo log to come (weather and Tuesday permitting)!

 

[wme]

Propane has a lot more energy per lb than a battery. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

[Rednecktek]

Oh, the propane is staying, it feeds the heater and cook top. This is to power things like the laptop, coffee maker, etc. The 12v to the heater is for the fan and thermostat.

 

[Hedges]

I think black wire to "4p" may represent ground? Be sure to ground PV frames back to inverter, since some drive AC as common mode on PV+/PV-

Battery negative I think would normally go to chassis. High power inverter, relying on chassis as negative conductor would usually be avoided but might be OK if chassis is a continuous piece of metal, has 10x the cross section you would have for copper, and contacts are treated to prevent corrosion (and large enough to avoid excessive spreading resistance.) Is this what you were referring to? But I would prefer copper cables.

GFCI is always a good thing, especially if you may get wet.

 

[Rednecktek]

I think black wire to "4p" may represent ground? Be sure to ground PV frames back to inverter, since some drive AC as common mode on PV+/PV-

4p is 4 in parallel at the combiner box, positive and negative wires. Being as that I have a lot of trees out here shading is a concern.

Battery negative I think would normally go to chassis. High power inverter, relying on chassis as negative conductor would usually be avoided but might be OK if chassis is a continuous piece of metal, has 10x the cross section you would have for copper, and contacts are treated to prevent corrosion (and large enough to avoid excessive spreading resistance.) Is this what you were referring to? But I would prefer copper cables.

Yeah, the chassis on those are all one piece of steel C-channel and I-beam, but 10x the thickness of 2/0AWG would be like 10" which is thicker than skyscraper steel. I was hoping to avoid having to run that second fat wire through the raceways. The existing system has all the negatives for the 12v system going to the chassis.

GFCI is always a good thing, especially if you may get wet.

Doesn't GFCI have issue with ungrounded systems like vehicles or can I just run the ground to the frame from the 120v outlets to the 12v grounded frame?

 

[0truck0]

what do you mean put mylar under them?
You want the VHB tape to adhere directly to a very clean surface (the roof), not a coating on the roof, not painted roof, to the metal roof. Very clean is key.
3 inches is too high IMO. 3/4 inch is plenty of ventilation. Too much gap and you get too much air under it when driving.

I did axle flip. I asked the seller to keep the original spring mounts and to add a second set of spring mounts on the other side, this way I had the option to reverse the flip. They did not listen so I dont have that option, I have a smaller truck and do a lot less off road so sucks. Keep both.

****** BEWARE******
Axle flip does NOT mean flipping the axle upside down!!!!!! It refers to mounting the leaf springs under the axle or over the axle! The axle stays the same. Moving the springs is what you are doing. *** beware, a moron coined the term, axle flip. If any average intelligence person would have coined the term it would be specifically, "spring mount flip". You are putting the spring mount on the other side (top or bottom), that is it.

Do not flip the axle, the axles are bent, pre-bent, and flatten out a little with the weight of the trailer sits on it. Flipping an axle will put the wheels/tires at a very odd angle to the road. You will blow a tire, might crash the trailer and have bad handling.

 

[jimf909]

Replace the propane/12v fridge with a dorm fridge...
...Photo log to come (weather and Tuesday permitting)!

Congrats on the new rig.

Is the propane fridge not working? I'm sure it's an electricity hog in 12v mode but in propane mode it won't use a lot of propane and will preserve your batteries for other stuff. Also, by 'dorm fridge', are you saying cheapo dorm fridge that you'll run off an inverter or are you saying a relatively efficient 12v Danfoss compressor fridge like a Truckfridge? The cheap AC dorm fridges seem pretty inefficient both in operation and running off an inverter.

Looking forward to the pics!

 

[Pi Curio]

I'm not familiar with 120VAC and the power of the devices used with it, but there's something that looks a bit odd to me in the diagram. I could be mistaken, just in case.

At first, it looked like the two batteries were limited by 100A fuses individually and the common 200A fuse for a 2kW AC inverter max load, but maybe the 15A AC circuit breaker on the output limits it to a maximum of 1.8kW AC load at 120VAC.

But then again, you have two of those on the AC output, and obviously, the 10awg is enough for that load, but isn't there a possibility if both 15A AC lines are used at the same time and above 17A-ish total, the load will trigger the fuses, the limit placed on the batteries?

With near the upper limit of the 2kW range of the inverter, efficiency will drop significantly as well. It really depends on the inverter CSL and or its efficiency, if it's really good it can get over 2kW easily.

That is, 2000W/0.85%(If it's even stays that high)/11V(it could get even lower) = 213A


Just my 2 cents.

 

[Rocketman]

What are the AIO’s stand by draws? How long will it take to run down the battery.

Some AIO’s waste a lot of watts. Just wanted to make sure you have checked that.

The issue can be that you are gaining little solar (parked near trees), but the AIO is using power as fast as you can make it.

Good Luck with your project!

 

[Rednecktek]

what do you mean put mylar under them?
You want the VHB tape to adhere directly to a very clean surface (the roof), not a coating on the roof, not painted roof, to the metal roof. Very clean is key.
3 inches is too high IMO. 3/4 inch is plenty of ventilation. Too much gap and you get too much air under it when driving.

Ever seen the reflective mylar window covering film? I was thinking of spray gluing that down to the roof between the mounting rails to bounce the light back up. As for the gap, that's going to be decided by the unistrut track I get so it'll have the exact measurements once I get the rack and panels in hand. I'll be forming a wind wedge along the front end to keep air from blowing underneath when driving.

Is the propane fridge not working? I'm sure it's an electricity hog in 12v mode but in propane mode it won't use a lot of propane and will preserve your batteries for other stuff. Also, by 'dorm fridge', are you saying cheapo dorm fridge that you'll run off an inverter or are you saying a relatively efficient 12v Danfoss compressor fridge like a Truckfridge? The cheap AC dorm fridges seem pretty inefficient both in operation and running off an inverter.

I'm told it works, but I'd like my stuff to get cold BEFORE we get to the camp site, not a week AFTER we get home. ? Those absorption fridges are just so worthless and it's not like I won't have the power to spare to feed a real fridge for a couple days. This system is massively oversized for anything I'm realistically to do, but the only other 12v AIO type thing that would let me plug into shore power, and have all the other bits is the MPP-1012-LV and that whines with the coffee maker and fridge running together right at it's limit. We tested that a while back with my brother's beer fridge with my coffee pot and it the compressor startup would jjjuuussttt cause it to alarm until it settled down. I figure a 2000w inverter will have no issues.

Also, the heater and water heater are propane hogs and it's a small tank. With the average insulation value of R-Negative-11 it's going to be running all the friggin time.

But then again, you have two of those on the AC output, and obviously, the 10awg is enough for that load, but isn't there a possibility if both 15A AC lines are used at the same time and above 17A-ish total, the load will trigger the fuses, the limit placed on the batteries?

If it's wired like my brother's pop-up, all the outlets are on a single 15a AC breaker. My thought is to pull that worthless absorption fridge and put another 120v circuit in the breaker box (since I'm going to be building my own distribution box) and have a 2nd 15a circuit to feed the dorm fridge and an outlet on the side of its cabinet for the coffee maker. I can't imagine I'll ever max out this inverter, the largest load it'll ever have is the drip coffee maker while the fridge kicks on. The new fridge is going to be larger than the old one, but I've got a saw and it doesn't look like there's anything in the cabinet above it. The MargaritaMaster-9000 is sadly too big to fit under the seat while travelling.

My fuse and breaker sizes are based on 2000w / 12v = 166.6a * 120% = 200a.

What are the AIO’s stand by draws? How long will it take to run down the battery.

Spec sheet says 15w idle draw, with a pair of 280Ah batteries and 800w of solar, I think I can eat that for a few days and with the 4 panels in parallel shading 1 or 2 still has me setting pretty good.

 

[Pi Curio]

If it's wired like my brother's pop-up, all the outlets are on a single 15a AC breaker. My thought is to pull that worthless absorption fridge and put another 120v circuit in the breaker box (since I'm going to be building my own distribution box) and have a 2nd 15a circuit to feed the dorm fridge and an outlet on the side of its cabinet for the coffee maker. I can't imagine I'll ever max out this inverter, the largest load it'll ever have is the drip coffee maker while the fridge kicks on. The new fridge is going to be larger than the old one, but I've got a saw and it doesn't look like there's anything in the cabinet above it. The MargaritaMaster-9000 is sadly too big to fit under the seat while travelling.

My fuse and breaker sizes are based on 2000w / 12v = 166.6a * 120% = 200a.

I don't have the power measurements on those devices, but I'm not sure if you meant 2000W AC or DC in the equation.

If it's the 2000W AC you were referring to, inverter efficiency needs to be accounted for in the equation to get the DC load on the system in order to address the wiring and fuses.

 

[Isaac-1]

Seriously look at the economics of drop in batteries, vs building your own, we live in a world where import 100AH LiFePo4 batteries commonly sell for $190 or less online, even ones with bluetooth BMS are only a few dollars more. With 280-300AH batteries selling online for around $550 - $600

 

[Rednecktek]

Seriously look at the economics of drop in batteries, vs building your own, we live in a world where import 100AH LiFePo4 batteries commonly sell for $190 or less online, even ones with bluetooth BMS are only a few dollars more. With 280-300AH batteries selling online for around $550 - $600

Due to very limited space, I can't beat the energy density of the higher capacity cells. Basically I can fit 300ah in the footprint of an off the shelf 100ah. It's only a 10ft camper, space is a premium.

Plus it's more fun. ?

 

[wme]

OK here is your DIY battery kit
https://www.licitti.com/product/2040/

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Man I had to read that thread title like 6 times.
I’m tired….

 

[Rednecktek]

OK here is your DIY battery kit
https://www.licitti.com/product/2040/

Nah, they'll be more like my first battery build that I used on my brother's pop-up. Just 4 cells, a BMS, and some terminals in a DC29-31 NOCO battery box. I think I can fit both of them inside under the dining table seats where the current power panel is. I'm pretty sure I can get the inverter down in there too with enough room to breathe.

Man I had to read that thread title like 6 times.
I’m tired….

We put LCD TV's UNDERNEATH!!! ?

You want the VHB tape to adhere directly to a very clean surface (the roof), not a coating on the roof, not painted roof, to the metal roof. Very clean is key.
3 inches is too high IMO. 3/4 inch is plenty of ventilation. Too much gap and you get too much air under it when driving.

So would you recommend self tappers or rivnuts in addition to adhesive? I was hoping to avoid poking holes if possible.

In other news, I went out to look at it today and do a walk-around, put down the first $1000 because that's all I could get out of an ATM on a Sunday. There's more work than I thought that needs to happen but it's in very nice shape inside. Some cleaning on the canvas inside, remounting and re-plumbing for the 2nd propane tank up front, and the manual crank up needs to be electrified. It's newer than my brother's so I was surprised that it was a manual crank but I think I can mount a small ATV winch to pull the cables rather than beating my arm to death.

The fridge doesn't have any space above it so I need to find one that will fit in that height but that shouldn't be too hard, going to be glad to be rid of that thing. A piece of elastic needs to be replaced on one of the slide-outs, sink a couple brads here and there, and get that axel flipped next summer when I mount the panels up top. The power panel consists of a 6x10 box with 2x AC breakers and 2x blade fuses which seems to be too many of one and not enough of the other if the heater, fridge, and lights are all involved. That will all get converted to DIN breakers. Tracing circuits, Wheeee!

 

[Hedges]

Doesn't GFCI have issue with ungrounded systems like vehicles or can I just run the ground to the frame from the 120v outlets to the 12v grounded frame?

GFCI is approved for safety improvement and providing a 3-prong outlet even when ungrounded.

In my experience, Leviton GFCI outlets work without ground, but Eaton are designed to not reset if they don't detect correct wiring based on a measurement of ground.

 

[jimf909]

...the manual crank up needs to be electrified.

Dad had kids to do that with the Starcraft pop-up. "How fast can you crank the top up?" (ratchet goes faster). ?

 

[Hedges]

That is, 2000W/0.85%(If it's even stays that high)/11V(it could get even lower) = 213A

Being more generous with efficiency and voltage, but including other factors:

2000 W
/ 12 V minimum battery
/ 95 % efficient
X 1.25 margin
X 1.12 ripple factor
= 246A

So I recommend 250A fuse.
If you would really draw 2000W continuous.

There is a 250A breaker available from Midnight.


Precharge only goes to one battery? Oh, right. It is for the one inverter. Make it switchable to other battery in case you have to use just it?

A 100A fuse on battery indicates 80A max continuous draw. What are batteries rated for? Would like to supply inverter even if imbalanced draw.

 

[Rednecktek]

I'll step up all the breakers and fuses.

Dad had kids to do that with the Starcraft pop-up. "How fast can you crank the top up?" (ratchet goes faster). ?

Old and no kids, gotta engineer a bionic replacement. ?