Price sanity check on 4000 watt addition to existing system

[daikerjohn]

(Typed all this up and lost it. So here's to round two!)

Back in 2019 I had a 15kw system installed atop our riding arena. This included all permits, net metering agreements, parts, labor, installation, et al. Was really happy with the final product.
That system has 44 Longi panels (LR6-72-PE-245M) and 22 AP Systems YC600 micro inverters.
There are four 'strings' of panels on the roof, but each string is 14 panels and 7 inverters... so that last string only has two panels and 1 inverter.
All that runs into a junction box where it's fed back to the panel/meter at the house through #1 THHN and a variety of disconnects, the most important of which is a '100 A/2P Fused Disconnect w/ 70A fuses' (whatever that means).
That lonely fourth string was done that way intentionally to make future upgrades easier/possible.

Well, the future has arrived.

I just received a quote (from the original installer in 2019) for a 4000 watt addition onto that 4th string.
That includes:
10x Jinko JKM400M-72HL-V panels (400 watts)
5x AP Systems DS3-S micro inverters
Racking to mount those panels in landscape orientation on the arena roof. (The arena roof is regular/ribbed barn steel supported with horizontal 2x6s on 2-ft centers. I believe it is a 4/12 pitch. 15ft at the gutters)
Replace 70A fuse with 80A fuse.

I've attached the quote and some notes from the installer. Happy to also scan/attach the original electrical diagram if that is helpful/useful.

The quote was out-of-pocket for $11920.

Is that anywhere close to reasonable?

I'm in Northwest Oregon.

Thanks,
John

 

[seneysolar]

Just spitballing numbers seems high. I get to about 8k fairly easy. 12k seems like a stretch. Im not a fan of companies that dont itemize quotes or invoices. If you used this company before and you are happy with the results then thats worth something. Are they making money yes, but hey its a business.

Estimating rough numbers
24 hours labor @ 100/HR = 2400
10 panels @ 250ea = 2500
5 microinverters @ 200 =1000
Racking for 10 panels maybe 1500
Miscellaneous wire, fuses, supplies 500

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Looks like a BS quote intended to hide things.

I'd ask for an itemized quote with only costs and credits listed, i.e., no BS depreciation or electricity but include labor.

The panels are about $2900
Racking is expensive and can often cost more than the panels if using a UL listed racking system.
The DS3-S cost about $1000 (DS3-S have 640VA of output, so you'll never capture the full potential of the 800W)

All that to say $2/watt is pretty typical. At $3/watt, it seems high.

 

[daikerjohn]

Just spitballing numbers seems high. I get to about 8k fairly easy. 12k seems like a stretch. Im not a fan of companies that dont itemize quotes or invoices. If you used this company before and you are happy with the results then thats worth something. Are they making money yes, but hey its a business.

Estimating rough numbers
24 hours labor @ 100/HR = 2400
10 panels @ 250ea = 2500
5 microinverters @ 200 =1000
Racking for 10 panels maybe 1500
Miscellaneous wire, fuses, supplies 500

My 'napkin math' was ~$8500 knowing *nothing* about racking.
I found my original quote from 2019 and they used 'Snap N Rack'.

 

[daikerjohn]

Looks like a BS quote intended to hide things.

I'd ask for an itemized quote with only costs and credits listed, i.e., no BS depreciation or electricity but include labor.

The panels are about $2900
Racking is expensive and can often cost more than the panels if using a UL listed racking system.
The DS3-S cost about $1000 (DS3-S have 640VA of output, so you'll never capture the full potential of the 800W)

All that to say $2/watt is pretty typical. At $3/watt, it seems high.

Agreed on 'intended to hide things'. And the depreciation is confusing. I had that concern w/ him the first go 'round in 2019. Just too many numbers.
But I ultimately paid $1.88/watt out-of-pocket in 2019, and I was happy with that number compared to the other quotes I received!

For the DS3-S, you're saying $1000 total right? Not $1000/each?
I can get an entire pallet for Jinko 405 watt panels shipped from Canada for $5200USD. That's $192/panel.
And I'd use the 17 leftovers for off-grid stuff.

 

[seneysolar]

See if he can itemize it for you. Start there.

 

[Hedges]

I think he list listing fyi the federal tax credit you'll get first year, and based on your tax bracket estimating the tax savings from expensing the remainder on your business return.

Is the 30% credit available when PV is for business, not on your residence?

These figures aren't going into his quote. He's just showing you pay $12k out of pocket, get $6k back on your taxes for a net $6000 investment. And then he estimates that will generate $36k worth of power in 25 years. (I don't know if that is flat $1440 per year or something assuming rate increases.) Maybe showing 4 year break-even, free power after that.

Does anybody install GT PV turnkey for less than $3/W? On this scale?

We DIY around $1/W


24 man-hours labor. Much faster than me.
I think $8000 for labor, overhead, profit.
$333/hour? As a buyer, I'd wish it was $100/hour. That would make total $6400.
(maybe a place to negotiate from. Well, more reasonable to try for $1.88 x 4000 = $7500.
Parts are cheaper, labor is more, $7500 seems reasonable.

 

[seneysolar]

Does anybody install GT PV turnkey for less than $3/W? On this scale?

At the end of the day, its 10 panels into existing wiring, and replacing a breaker.

No permit, no inspection, no wiring inside the building.

Dollars per watt doesn't quite fit here considering all the infrastructure is already in place.