Sixtysix 280ah Cells from Deligreen

[michael d]

Gee wiz people.

Buddy heaters are meant for camps, and various uses and do work well but NOT INDOORS with a closed up building !
Carbon Monoxide FOLKS ! They are not direct vent, as they run & burn the LPG, they emit the usual humidity that results from LPG Burning but also CO2 which you cannot smell or see but will kill you if it get's too high.

Kerosene IS nasty stinky but at least, it forces you to open a window or two to keep fresh air coming in.

BTW: LPG appliances can be converted to use BIOGAS quite easily as their jetting is almost perfect (unlike Natural Gas which is high pressure).
BioGas Generators can easily be DIY'ed or even inexpensive retail units can be purchased.
BiopGas can work in just about every climate, they even have some running 7/24/365 in the Northwest Territories ! so Cold is NOT an excuse.

I have vented propane heaters designed for indoor use (have used them for many years). I do think the Carbon monoxide detectors would be a good idea for almost any type of gas heating system. I had a neighbor (in town) whose natural gas furnace had a Carbon monoxide issue due to chimney venting problems I think. I like the BIOGAS idea for the hot water! in the future maybe! great idea Steve! Last winter, I put in a 96% high efficient furnace propane to replace the 40year or more old forced air probably only 80% efficient that just rusted out etc. A cookstove in the kitchen would be good also but trying to go all solar electric still. still trying to get fail-safe with redundant backup though.

 

[heavy-impact]

Gee wiz people.

Buddy heaters are meant for camps, and various uses and do work well but NOT INDOORS with a closed up building !

Indoors / Outdoor Use​

Perhaps one of the best features of the Mr. Heater Buddy is that it can be used both indoors and outdoors.

Many portable propane heaters can be dangerous when used indoors due to the risk of carbon dioxide poisoning. However, the Mr Heater Buddy has a sensor that automatically turn off the heater when oxygen levels are low.

 

[Bob B]

My brother used to use an unvented propane heater .... not sure if it was the Mr Buddy or not. The inside of his camper was always VERY humid with the windows fogged up.
I know a lot of people do this, but no way I would sleep with one of those running.

 

[heavy-impact]

My brother used to use an unvented propane heater .... not sure if it was the Mr Buddy or not. The inside of his camper was always VERY humid with the windows fogged up.
I know a lot of people do this, but no way I would sleep with one of those running.

My sons are in their 30s now and grew up with an unvented propane heater in their room. Never caused a problem, both are in perfect health and neither one has been to a doctor more than six or seven times in their lives. I've never heard of anyone having a health issue from a propane space heater. To each his own.

 

[Bob B]

My sons are in their 30s now and grew up with an unvented propane heater in their room. Never caused a problem, both are in perfect health and neither one has been to a doctor more than six or seven times in their lives. I've never heard of anyone having a health issue from a propane space heater. To each his own.

I agree ... Each person should make their own decision and what level of risk they want to take for any given activity. I do NOT believe in the nanny state .... There are also people who have smoked 2 packs of cigarettes every day and lived to be 100.
My brother died of a progressive lung condition normally attributed to smokers .... he never smoked during his lifetime. There is no way to correlate those 2 things. (His wife is still living and does not have any respiratory problems) I have no idea if his use of the propane heater had any bearing on that. They called it idiopathic ... meaning cause unknown.

 

[Bob Steel]

I did the discharge test and the results were ok but I have a couple cells in this group that are pretty bad.
The BMS capacity shows 262Ah but the capacity tester shows 271Ah. All I know for sure is none are very accurate.
I'm going to swap the position of the two worst cells with the two best cells and give them one more chance.
If I get the same results I'll swap out the worst ones.
I ordered an MPP Solar 3048LV-MK+wifi module all in one. I'm tired of playing with capacity testers and power supplies.
I had ordered a 3000W inverter and I was going to order an auto switchbox but the cost is getting up there.
And this all in one has a better reputation as far a I can tell.

For the cost diff you should have just gone to their biggest 5048

 

[ArthurEld]

For the cost diff you should have just gone to their biggest 5048

I guess that would depend on what you need it for. I was going to buy a crappy 48V 3000W inverter for $400. I got the 3048 for $600 instead.

 

[ArthurEld]

 

[Fallingaway]

I’m definitely jealous but for that much money and only for when the grid goes down seems excessive . A diesel or even natural gas generator ever on the table? That many cells, I hope you don’t have balancing issues.

 

[ArthurEld]

I've had a generator for years. I like batteries.
I ordered a SolArk 12K and 30 solar panels today.

 

[michael d]

The generator noise sucks if you have to use it much. as an emergency backup they do the job, or for short-term use in isolated areas. I have a very remote off-grid farm in the mountains where we wore out 3 generators in 20 years and they were noisy and I do not think anyone wants to deal with them much. I think solar panels and a LiFePO4 battery bank is the way to go. no noise pollution to your peaceful serene quiet life with nature. 32 280Ah Lishen LiFePO4 cells arrived yesterday. I unboxed and inserted studs and paralleled every 2 cells with busbars. there was no damage to the cells and all measured 3.29 volts.

 

[ArthurEld]

I got flooded from Sandy on Long Island and was without power for a few weeks.
All I had was a $300 generator and I shared it with a neighbor. It was in winter too.
No natural gas either.
Saltwater got in everything and every house had to be inspected before utilities could be turned on.

 

[Steve_S]

The generator noise sucks if you have to use it much. as an emergency backup they do the job, or for short-term use in isolated areas. I have a very remote off-grid farm in the mountains where we wore out 3 generators in 20 years and they were noisy and I do not think anyone wants to deal with them much. I think solar panels and a LiFePO4 battery bank is the way to go. no noise pollution to your peaceful serene quiet life with nature. 32 280Ah Lishen LiFePO4 cells arrived yesterday. I unboxed and inserted studs and paralleled every 2 cells with busbars. there was no damage to the cells and all measured 3.29 volts.

Now is when the fun really begins.
Please take note: My Trash & Bash testing has shown up a few things, long story too much info. Long Story short:
- you will want to fully balance these puppies BEFORE putting a pack together.
- Some say TOP is good enough. NOPE ! It AIN'T ! These are ESS cells, not EV cells and not matched or batched. Too long to get into, skipping it.
- Level them up at the storage voltage (3.0-3.2) as you are doing with them in parallel.
- When leveled up and equal, come the PITA part... drain them down to 2.65V each. Charge "each cell" at .5C if possible or as high as you can manage and TOP the cell. Set cutoff amp to 10% of the charge rate, so if charging at 75A then cutoff at 7.5A. There is another formula of 1% of the cell actual AH but it's a foolie sort of as that applies to matched cells and other things.
-once each cell was topped then re-assemble in parallel and let then settle out between each other.
- Then apply your final topping at 3.60V High Amp till it drops to 10% of charge amps started with.

remember the cells expand & contract when charging discharging, up to 2mm on the cell. Block & Bind them when doing so. You've been warned.

This is partially in contradiction to what has been posted by some. The reality is, I tried various combos (methods) with different cells. The Thrashing has shown what the real deal is. Without doing the above, you voltage curve/window will be reduced as the "runner cells" this with IR that is out of whack at Hi/Lo will zot your capacity. Well unless you never plan to go below 3.2V or above 3.4, the moment you do, divergence will increase and the runners will run either to 3.65V or drop like a rock to 2.50 and lower. This is observed in almost 3 weeks of hard thrash tests Real Time Real World.

These commodity cells are Grade-A for ESS Grading, they are B or C if considered for EV grading level ! The tolerances are not as tight as they would be for EVV use nor for fully matched, batched & binned cells even of the ESS grade. No one get's a Rolls Royce for the price of a 1980 Honda CVCC. in 2020.

 

[michael d]

I got flooded from Sandy on Long Island and was without power for a few weeks.
All I had was a $300 generator and I shared it with a neighbor. It was in winter too.
No natural gas either.
Saltwater got in everything and every house had to be inspected before utilities could be turned on.

A generator as a backup .... exactly for an emergency situation. I appreciate these things as one year (maybe 25 years ago to more)in the middle of winter there was an ice storm that took down the utility grid power lines and we were without electricity for 3 days. So no heat. we used a propane stove but was inadequate. A generator could have saved the day. got thru it. I prefer the solar electric and now the upgrade to LiFePO4 batteries as I strive to go off-grid.

 

[michael d]

Now is when the fun really begins.
Please take note: My Trash & Bash testing has shown up a few things, long story too much info. Long Story short:
- you will want to fully balance these puppies BEFORE putting a pack together.
- Some say TOP is good enough. NOPE ! It AIN'T ! These are ESS cells, not EV cells and not matched or batched. Too long to get into, skipping it.
- Level them up at the storage voltage (3.0-3.2) as you are doing with them in parallel.
- When leveled up and equal, come the PITA part... drain them down to 2.65V each. Charge "each cell" at .5C if possible or as high as you can manage and TOP the cell. Set cutoff amp to 10% of the charge rate, so if charging at 75A then cutoff at 7.5A. There is another formula of 1% of the cell actual AH but it's a foolie sort of as that applies to matched cells and other things.
-once each cell was topped then re-assemble in parallel and let then settle out between each other.
- Then apply your final topping at 3.60V High Amp till it drops to 10% of charge amps started with.

remember the cells expand & contract when charging discharging, up to 2mm on the cell. Block & Bind them when doing so. You've been warned.

This is partially in contradiction to what has been posted by some. The reality is, I tried various combos (methods) with different cells. The Thrashing has shown what the real deal is. Without doing the above, you voltage curve/window will be reduced as the "runner cells" this with IR that is out of whack at Hi/Lo will zot your capacity. Well unless you never plan to go below 3.2V or above 3.4, the moment you do, divergence will increase and the runners will run either to 3.65V or drop like a rock to 2.50 and lower. This is observed in almost 3 weeks of hard thrash tests Real Time Real World.

These commodity cells are Grade-A for ESS Grading, they are B or C if considered for EV grading level ! The tolerances are not as tight as they would be for EVV use nor for fully matched, batched & binned cells even of the ESS grade. No one get's a Rolls Royce for the price of a 1980 Honda CVCC. in 2020.

yes, I bought 6 3/8 inch x 36-inch threaded rods and washers nuts to make compression ends to keep the cells together when charging and discharging them. today I will work on the plywood and threaded rods to make up the compression jig. I am thinking about adding some old angle iron from bed frames outside the ends of the plywood for a little more reinforcement. standard procedure -- make it stronger than you need. thanks for the info -- I will be working on it daily if the wife does not tie me into other honey doo's.

 

[michael d]

 

[ArthurEld]

Now is when the fun really begins.
Please take note: My Trash & Bash testing has shown up a few things, long story too much info. Long Story short:
- you will want to fully balance these puppies BEFORE putting a pack together.
- Some say TOP is good enough. NOPE ! It AIN'T ! These are ESS cells, not EV cells and not matched or batched. Too long to get into, skipping it.
- Level them up at the storage voltage (3.0-3.2) as you are doing with them in parallel.
- When leveled up and equal, come the PITA part... drain them down to 2.65V each. Charge "each cell" at .5C if possible or as high as you can manage and TOP the cell. Set cutoff amp to 10% of the charge rate, so if charging at 75A then cutoff at 7.5A. There is another formula of 1% of the cell actual AH but it's a foolie sort of as that applies to matched cells and other things.
-once each cell was topped then re-assemble in parallel and let then settle out between each other.
- Then apply your final topping at 3.60V High Amp till it drops to 10% of charge amps started with.

remember the cells expand & contract when charging discharging, up to 2mm on the cell. Block & Bind them when doing so. You've been warned.

This is partially in contradiction to what has been posted by some. The reality is, I tried various combos (methods) with different cells. The Thrashing has shown what the real deal is. Without doing the above, you voltage curve/window will be reduced as the "runner cells" this with IR that is out of whack at Hi/Lo will zot your capacity. Well unless you never plan to go below 3.2V or above 3.4, the moment you do, divergence will increase and the runners will run either to 3.65V or drop like a rock to 2.50 and lower. This is observed in almost 3 weeks of hard thrash tests Real Time Real World.

These commodity cells are Grade-A for ESS Grading, they are B or C if considered for EV grading level ! The tolerances are not as tight as they would be for EVV use nor for fully matched, batched & binned cells even of the ESS grade. No one get's a Rolls Royce for the price of a 1980 Honda CVCC. in 2020.

I was already thinking about doing something similar to what you suggest.
Basically you bottom balance before you top balance. This completely erases any memory effect that is going on in the cells.
That's my theory anyway and it won't hurt anything.
It looks like you are saying to do the entire operation connected parallel. How do you discharge connected parallel?
My capacity tester isn't bad at discharging parallel cells.
I only have cheap equipment for dealing with 2V-4V

 

[Steve_S]

LFP has no memory, the chemistry does not allow for it.
If you want to see the full power curve / range to get most of the SOC, the batteries need to be conditioned. These are not even conditioned at the factory and that means taking them to 0% then to 100% at the rated C-Rate for the cells. 280 EVE's is 0.5C/140A for example. In fact, the subtle but there suggestion is there to drain the cells from storge voltage at the max C-Rate recommended but a gotcha thanks to Chinglish Translation. The cells are 1C capable but recommended to not exceed 0.5C Remember ESS grade Cells NOT EV grade Cells.

 

[ArthurEld]

You didn't say how you discharge at over .2C when you are connected parallel.

The thing that makes me think cells have memory is because cells can have different states of charge when at the same voltage. That seems like a memory effect.

 

[michael d]

You didn't say how you discharge at over .2C when you are connected parallel.

The thing that makes me think cells have memory is because cells can have different states of charge when at the same voltage. That seems like a memory effect.

I was wondering the same thing