Smoke alarm with dry contact or 12v relay? To shut down battery bank.

[hwy17]

Prompted by recent discussion I am looking at installing a smoke alarm and I'm thinking I could have the smoke alarm shut down the battery power.

I saw a smoke alarm in an outbuilding wired to a siren once, to alert the main house. It was from the 80's and I can't remember the power source. I think smoke alarm was battery and siren was mains power or mains power adapter.

Does anyone know of a common form of smoke detector that would provide a signal relay of some sort? I could use dry contact, 12v, 120v, basically anything. Dead mans style / Normally Closed would be ideal, but I could reverse the signal myself if I need to.

 

[chicagoandy]

Prompted by recent discussion I am looking at installing a smoke alarm and I'm thinking I could have the smoke alarm shut down the battery power.

I saw a smoke alarm in an outbuilding wired to a siren once, to alert the main house. It was from the 80's and I can't remember the power source. I think smoke alarm was battery and siren was mains power or mains power adapter.

Does anyone know of a common form of smoke detector that would provide a signal relay of some sort? I could use dry contact, 12v, 120v, basically anything. Dead mans style / Normally Closed would be ideal, but I could reverse the signal myself if I need to.

Most residential smoke detectors have interconnects, typically at 120v.

The following products are simple relays that expose 120V when the alarm is active. They can also expose lower DC voltage, depending on model.

Kidde - Interconnect Accessories Smoke Relay Module: 408-Sm120X
First Alert BRK RM4 Smart Relay for First Alert
USI Electric USI-960 Relay Module for Smoke and Fire Alarms

 

[hwy17]

Most residential smoke detectors have interconnects, typically at 120v.

Oh! Yeah the one I saw looked pretty standard.

 

[hwy17]

Most residential smoke detectors have interconnects, typically at 120v.

The following products are simple relays that expose 120V when the alarm is active. They can also expose lower DC voltage, depending on model.

Kidde - Interconnect Accessories Smoke Relay Module: 408-Sm120X
First Alert BRK RM4 Smart Relay for First Alert
USI Electric USI-960 Relay Module for Smoke and Fire Alarms

The relays are great, thank you.

 

[solarenvy]

@hwy17 - do you have a design in mind for these relays? I’d love to see what an end-to-end setup looks like.

 

[solarenvy]

BTW, a HomePod can listen for a siren and trigger alerts and/or automations. My current setup uses HomePods and scattered temp sensors (HomePods have built in temp sensors as well).

Of course this assumes network connectivity isn’t compromised.

 

[hwy17]

@hwy17 - do you have a design in mind for these relays? I’d love to see what an end-to-end setup looks like.

Yeah I use a lot of these little chassis mount relays from CIT for my other BMS logic.

hwy17's Orion battery build

Maybe @Ampster has drift setting advice. Sorry. My system goes to 100% almost every day so I am not concerned about drift. When I say 100%, that is relative to my CV setting of 3.45 volts per cell

diysolarforum.com

My difficult BMS makes this part rather easy, as it and all the contactors are powered by an auxiliary 12v power source (car battery) so I can just wire another relay inline with the power supply for the whole control box. And CIT makes it easy because they make these relays (J115F3) in various coil voltages too. When the power supply is cut, all the contactors would lose their coil power and open; isolating the inverter, chargers, and battery bank from each other.

I have one Lifepower4 battery that I don't think can take a shutdown signal, but I will probably move it over onto a lug in the middle bus, which is between the 3 contactors so it would at least become isolated from other devices.

Hopefully there's a 12v solution there, so that inverter down doesn't automatically mean take everything down.

 

[robbob2112]

When I google for "wireless alarm system smoke detector" a number of simple build out yourself type systems show up. I would bet a trip to the local store specializing in alarm systems would give you options.

 

[JRH]

Prompted by recent discussion I am looking at installing a smoke alarm and I'm thinking I could have the smoke alarm shut down the battery power.

I saw a smoke alarm in an outbuilding wired to a siren once, to alert the main house. It was from the 80's and I can't remember the power source. I think smoke alarm was battery and siren was mains power or mains power adapter.

Does anyone know of a common form of smoke detector that would provide a signal relay of some sort? I could use dry contact, 12v, 120v, basically anything. Dead mans style / Normally Closed would be ideal, but I could reverse the signal myself if I need to.

I would say at least have a talk with a local burglar / security alarm company to educate you on what their panels can do..

what your asking about is exactly what they can do and many other things…I have about 5 in different stores and the panel box itself can be hooked to larger batt and it will control all the relays you need to do or not do about anything …
If you do t have grid one 100 watt panel would probably be all you need to control the draw they use unless your Gona have several fires a day…

I have not stayed up with modernization in the last 10 years so who knows what they can do now..

Plus your probably able to buy it and do the all the labor…most of it now is not hardwired anyway..it’s no where near as complex as much of the solar stuff out there.

 

[hwy17]

I would say at least have a talk with a local burglar / security alarm company to educate you on what their panels can do..

what your asking about is exactly what they can do and many other things…I have about 5 in different stores and the panel box itself can be hooked to larger batt and it will control all the relays you need to do or not do about anything …
If you do t have grid one 100 watt panel would probably be all you need to control the draw they use unless your Gona have several fires a day…

I have not stayed up with modernization in the last 10 years so who knows what they can do now..

Plus your probably able to buy it and do the all the labor…most of it now is not hardwired anyway..it’s no where near as complex as much of the solar stuff out there.

In another life I probably would've enjoyed working in the alarm industry or PLC.

 

[JRH]

In another life I probably would've enjoyed working in the alarm industry or PLC.

I have dealt with a lot of them and Safe Dealers too. I like them …funny clever colorful guys normally ..

Let me phrase it like this , in the old days the best ones and most knowledgeable about how to protect you , your stuff and property were generally those who figured out sitting in the pokey that you could make more money staying on the legit side of the …
As they know all the tricks your trying to protect against…

Nowdays it’s more of a real profession and more sophisticated …

It’s a fun job….

 

[wpns]

Is there any advantage to a carbon monoxide alarm for LFP batteries?

 

[JRH]

Is there any advantage to a carbon monoxide alarm for LFP batteries?

Hmmm that’s a new one….

I would say if they some how started a combustion event, then released CO from the fire..
But I’m am not aware that they would or could emit CO without a fire…??? I don’t know ..

I really don’t know that…

 

[hwy17]

Is there any advantage to a carbon monoxide alarm for LFP batteries?

Apparently CO detectors will also detect Hydrogen and venting cells supposedly emit lots of that so there could be something to that.

 

[Skypower]

I know that smoldering and a burning fire emit different substances into the air, having a combination ion and photoelectric will give you the very earliest warning possible . Add a carbon monoxide detector for hydrogen detection you would have the ultimate system. I have a heat detector but by that time there’s more fire.

 

[hwy17]

I wonder if the naptha or whatever hydrocarbons in venting electrolyte would set off a gasoline fume detector.

Gasoline Fume Detectors | Fireboy-Xintex

A wide variety of Fireboy-Xintex model for Gasoline Fume Detectors and Gasoline Fume Detector Accessories. Equipment for detecting Gasoline Fuel Fumes.

www.fireboy-xintex.com

I might as well just give up now and start building an battery shed. The fire remediation budget is already getting more expensive than 500ft of 6 awg.

 

[Zwy]

Prompted by recent discussion I am looking at installing a smoke alarm and I'm thinking I could have the smoke alarm shut down the battery power.

I saw a smoke alarm in an outbuilding wired to a siren once, to alert the main house. It was from the 80's and I can't remember the power source. I think smoke alarm was battery and siren was mains power or mains power adapter.

Does anyone know of a common form of smoke detector that would provide a signal relay of some sort? I could use dry contact, 12v, 120v, basically anything. Dead mans style / Normally Closed would be ideal, but I could reverse the signal myself if I need to.

If the wife was cooking on the stove late one winter evening and the alarm goes off and cuts off battery power, do you stumble around in the dark?

Just asking what your plan is for when power is cut as far as lighting.

 

[robbob2112]

Apparently CO detectors will also detect Hydrogen and venting cells supposedly emit lots of that so there could be something to that.

I am not so sure about that. I have a variety of CO and other detectors. Only the ones that say they detect gas do.

uhm, but one thing, don't mount on of those near a bathroom. We had an "incident" at christmas one year where a family member was in the bathroom and doing stinky things... the methane or whatever set the gas detector off and we had to unplug it and remove the battery to silence it.

 

[Ampster]

I had wondered if a heat detector would go off quicker than a smoke detector.

 

[hwy17]

If the wife was cooking on the stove late one winter evening and the alarm goes off and cuts off battery power, do you stumble around in the dark?

Just asking what your plan is for when power is cut as far as lighting.

We're so used to power outages here that wouldn't be anything out of the norm.

Edit: Goal is to change that though! Only commissioned the system for full time operation a couple weeks ago and we're 100% uptime so far.