Sol-ark - eating their own dog food?

[Ampster]

Keep us in the loop. I’d like to know.

Me too! As a concept, because my overnight loads are less in winter and the solar days are longer, I will not even think about charging until the solar is going and will probably eliminate any need for grid charging. That will be important to give me some documentation to support my aggressive IRS posture of taking the ITC for my recent SolArk purchase and the purchase of some additional panels.

I am focusing right now on my winter configuration and wiring up four more panels to be DC coupled. Longer term I would like to find a way to get my AC coupled solar working when the grid is down but that is a low priority, at least until the next power outage.

 

[Ampster]

Me too! As a concept, because my overnight loads are less in Summer when the solar days are longer, I will not even think about charging from the grid until the solar is going.. That will be important to give me some documentation to support my aggressive IRS posture of taking the ITC for my recent SolArk purchase and the purchase of some additional panels.

I am focusing right now on my winter configuration and wiring up four more panels to be DC coupled. Longer term I would like to find a way to get my AC coupled solar working when the grid is down but that is a low priority, at least until the next power outage.

 

[Llaves]

Before winter had started one of the head techs had given me some details that I wrote down somewhere but cannot find them right now. I will have to give him a call when it is nearer to the summer.
I will be revising this come May when it makes sense to implement it.

I'll be really interested in hearing how this works. I did poke around a bit and found that in Basic->Time you can set the start/end dates for three seasons. (Three, not four? Seems a bit strange). In Grid->Limiter screen you have your TOU settings. Next to the TOU checkbox is a button "Setup". This pops up a screen with checkboxes for the days of the week and the three seasons. The manual (and the Sol-Ark 301 video) contain no information on what these mean, though my conjecture is that you are enabling which days of the week TOU is active for each season of the year. If so, this means you can't really program seasons differently in the sense of having different hours or charge/discharge thresholds. All you can do is turn it on/off certain days of the week for any given season.

 

[Ampster]

(Three, not four? Seems a bit strange).

Yes, there are four seasons but I am going to look at my weather patterns and see if I am going to use two or three schedules.

 

[robby]

I'll be really interested in hearing how this works. I did poke around a bit and found that in Basic->Time you can set the start/end dates for three seasons. (Three, not four? Seems a bit strange). In Grid->Limiter screen you have your TOU settings. Next to the TOU checkbox is a button "Setup". This pops up a screen with checkboxes for the days of the week and the three seasons. The manual (and the Sol-Ark 301 video) contain no information on what these mean, though my conjecture is that you are enabling which days of the week TOU is active for each season of the year. If so, this means you can't really program seasons differently in the sense of having different hours or charge/discharge thresholds. All you can do is turn it on/off certain days of the week for any given season.

I would think that you really only need three slots because even though there are four season the PV hours in the Spring and Fall are the same.

Winter = Low in the Sky
Spring = Mid point
Summer = High in the sky
Fall = Mid point

But the way it is setup is still an issue because they don't allow the second slot to have two date ranges for Spring and Fall, so how does that work?

I honestly remember almost nothing about the conversation I had with the tech. He just mentioned it as a new feature and I was just jotting down the notes and moved onto what I really wanted to know.

If I am remembering it correctly I think that once you set the dates for each change there is a time offset that is added to the TOU times for each of the season. So I think a 5pm start of battery usage in the (Slot 1) Winter is shifted by X amount of time to say 6pm in the (Slot 2) spring and then 6:30pm in the (Slot 3) Summer and then back to 6PM using back (Slot 2)?? But that second date range is missing.

I am only 50% sure so don't hold me to it.

 

[629658]

I’m trying to think how I would use that feature. Not sure I would in our situation. I only charge once a day using grid power and that’s usually early AM unless it’s cloudy and raining.

 

[Ampster]

I only charge once a day using grid power and that’s usually early AM unless it’s cloudy and raining.

I charge early AM in Winter because it is likely to be cloudy and rainy and the chances of power outages are greater. In Spring and Fall the days are longer, and there is less chance of clouds. Summer has long clear days so I charge primarily from solar during the day.

 

[Llaves]

I’m trying to think how I would use that feature. Not sure I would in our situation. I only charge once a day using grid power and that’s usually early AM unless it’s cloudy and raining.

This is perhaps the one time when being off-grid is simpler.

"None of the crazy you get from too much choice"
Barangrill - Joni Mitchell

 

[629658]

This is perhaps the one time when being off-grid is simpler.

"None of the crazy you get from too much choice"
Barangrill - Joni Mitchell

Probably so. We have hourly pricing so our rates change every hour on the hour. I need a charge up sometime through the night with the HVAC running as it is this time of year. So I just choose the cheapest 2 hrs and charge up. I haven’t been through a hot summer yet so we will see. If we have even a little bright day PV production covers our loads and generally keeps batteries full. Realistically we could probably make it through without a charge if we pushed it but I usually work in the 40-100% SOC range. I also will stay on grid for several hours if rates are below $0.03 per kWh just because the cost of power is cheaper than the wear and tear on my batteries.

 

[robby]

Probably so. We have hourly pricing so our rates change every hour on the hour. I need a charge up sometime through the night with the HVAC running as it is this time of year. So I just choose the cheapest 2 hrs and charge up. I haven’t been through a hot summer yet so we will see. If we have even a little bright day PV production covers our loads and generally keeps batteries full. Realistically we could probably make it through without a charge if we pushed it but I usually work in the 40-100% SOC range. I also will stay on grid for several hours if rates are below $0.03 per kWh just because the cost of power is cheaper than the wear and tear on my batteries.

I wonder how many meetings the power companies have had about this ability of newer solar Inverters and what are their plans are to Rob us of it.
I just know that at some point they will find some way to fix it so that it always works in their favor.

 

[Llaves]

I wonder how many meetings the power companies have had about this ability of newer solar Inverters and what are their plans are to Rob us of it.
I just know that at some point they will find some way to fix it so that it always works in their favor.

Some (smart?) utilities are doing some very interesting things from the perspective of the homeowner with a PV system and the ability to understand the nuances. JFPETESN's utility is providing hourly rates, which is way too much for most people to digest, but in his case he's taking advantage of this to lower his bill by buying power when it's cheap and storing it in his batteries for use when it's expensive. The utility presumably is just fine with this since they are the ones choosing the rates, which reflect how their cost varies during the day. (Now if they'd only send the information electronically to his inverter and if his inverter was able to make decisions based on that information, his life would be much smoother).

Some utilities in the NE US (and perhaps other places) offer a HUGE premium for the ability to pull power from your batteries during peak demand periods. The contracts are reasonably balanced, in the sense that you are protected from their draining your batteries right before a storm that is forecast to cause outages. You can set how many kWH they can pull, and so on. They even pay upfront when you install the battery and commit to the program. Of course, you have to have a battery they can communicate with, the Tesla PowerWall being the most familiar example.
Here's information on the Vermont program
And a similar program in Hawaii

 

[629658]

I wonder how many meetings the power companies have had about this ability of newer solar Inverters and what are their plans are to Rob us of it.
I just know that at some point they will find some way to fix it so that it always works in their favor.

I am still on an old net metering agreement so I get 1:1 and retail to retail on my TOU. Adding the Sol Ark and storage last year just lets me leverage to my advantage. New systems have different agreements.

 

[robby]

I am still on an old net metering agreement so I get 1:1 and retail to retail on my TOU. Adding the Sol Ark and storage last year just lets me leverage to my advantage. New systems have different agreements.

Lordy some of you guys are so lucky! I got the typical 33% offer which I refused.

 

[Llaves]

Lordy some of you guys are so lucky! I got the typical 33% offer which I refused.

On my grid-tied system (different house from my Sol-Ark system) I have net metering with no reset date - I've been banking power for 8 years. And for a few more years I get $.03 for RECs. NM is still solar friendly but the utilities are fighting it, of course.

 

[629658]

Lordy some of you guys are so lucky! I got the typical 33% offer which I refused.

Today, I get to buy and sell at these prices. Winter is different than summer. I really make hay in summer. Guess when peak rates are? Exactly when I’m grid selling 10:30-17:00.

 

[Shimmy]

Here's information on the Vermont program
And a similar program in Hawaii

The Hawaii program isn't really that great of a deal; you have limited installer options, and you get an incentive of ~$350/kWh, or roughly the equipment cost of a EG4 or SOK battery (if you can find an certified installer that will do one). The problem is that it is a 10-year program, so if the battery doesn't last the life you are out. You also aren't paid for the additional losses and there are a few extra "gotcha's" on the deal. If you are using a Powerwall not installed by Tesla then it is a negative cash flow solution.

I like the "bounty" programs that call you for up to about 10 events per year much better.

 

[JeepHammer]

Is solark designed around to being off grid?or more of grid support?

As you found out each design has its strong points and weakness.

I just got done helping with a Sol-Ark 15k and it's a high efficiency Grid-Tied inverter with several INTIGRATED power supply options.

In this case, the owner of an existing system (Enphase micro inverter) water to add whole house battery backup, and Enphase didn't do that.

For an insane amount of money, you *COULD* add propritary Enphase batteries, have a couple emergency outlets with very restricted power.

For less money you can slap up a Sol-Ark, use NON-propritary batteries, connect the enphase to the generator circuit input, and run happily along off grid, or on grid. It really was plug & play, only one phone call to tech support for specific settings.

SMA/Sunny Boy did have generator support, but with many current generator switches the generator shuts down when there isn't a load (fuel conservation) so I don't see an issue because these generator switches work with about any generator.

 

[Ampster]

For less money you can slap up a Sol-Ark, use NON-propritary batteries, connect the enphase to the generator circuit input, and run happily along off grid, or on grid. It really was plug & play, only one phone call to tech support for specific settings.

That is exactly what I did. What size batteries and how big was the Enphase GT solar system? One thing I like about using the generator port for AC coupled solar is the production shows up on the SolArk. Did you add any DC coupled solar to the system?

 

[JeepHammer]

That is exactly what I did. What size batteries and how big was the Enphase GT solar system? One thing I like about using the generator port for AC coupled solar is the production shows up on the SolArk. Did you add any DC coupled solar to the system?

Not my system, but yes, panels were added to supply 15kW of non-propritary batteries. Since Sol-Arc covers the charging and switch over from grid to off grid, that saved a few components.

I'm NOT a fan of integrated/all in one units. Anyone that waited a month to get a service call, then waited 6 weeks to 6 months for a repair/replacmemt or warrenty decision knows why I don't care for integrated systems or non-modular, propritary systems.

The maker doesn't support your system anymore, they give you a pro-rated warrenty that's next to nothing, and it's often only good if you buy the model they are selling at the time...

AND you get stuck with bills installing the new unit (to code)... Thanks for wasting my time and money situations.

I'm off grid, modular, but I have the space for modular components spread out. Something fails it was so cheap I usually have spares on the shelf, so it's a swap out and I'm not blacked out while waiting for a warrenty decision.

Since DIY is 1/4 to 1/2 the cost, there is room in the budget for spares, and component prices aren't marked up 300% by the installer.

This guy HAD to have grid tie, that means code inspector, and that means something with all the certifications. He also didn't have a lot of space, so a combined unit saved the day considering the requirements and restrictions.

I have five homes, four 'cabins' (tiny home/yard barns around a lake), and three businesses hooked to a mini grid.

As you might imagine, most people want flush toilets, lights that work on a switch, and a thermostat on the wall. It's mandatory if you want to attract a female...

So we centered the solar field, slapped panels on all roofs, and did the DC coupled thing (Main DC Buss) into the businesses.

We do small AC coupled, hang a DC inverter on the main Buss, then use a smaller grid tie/AC coupled inverter out at whatever satellite spot we need 120/240 VAC.

In 2020 I tried to large scale AC couple, and it was a $60,000 disaster. Different manufacturers use different protocols, the AC frequency shift got out of hand and things randomly shut down, etc.

Then along cones Sol-Ark a couple years later and solves all those issues... $60,000 would have bought a crap load of 15k inverters at about $8,000 a piece, and up to 9 will AC couple without a master controller. (See SMA/Sunny Island)

Now that Sol-Ark has done it, the price will come down, different manufacturers will reproduce it (providing it keeps selling like hot cakes), and it's stupid high efficiency (unlike big transformer systems) so other than being propritary (stuck with one company) it's a serious breakthrough for those of us wanting to expand.

I can't sell what I have as a home game, everyone has different circumstances and budgets, levels of ability/education...

I just found it funny the whole house Sol-Ark 15k and more than 4 times the non-propritary battery came in less money than the Enphase with it's limited size, propritary battery.

Can't tell you about the Enphase, wasn't my end of things, I was there to check/test batteries and make sure no one did anything stupid with the high amp cables/terminals.

While we were there with a boom truck, we replaced 3 Endphase micro inverters that have failed, it's like that on every job with Enphase micros.

 

[HighTechLab]

The problem is that it is a 10-year program, so if the battery doesn't last the life you are out.

Good thing is that one of the batteries you listed comes with a 10 year NO-BS warranty that is not pro-rated. A failure on day 3649/3650 is would be a no-out-of-pocket replacement cost...so that risk is essentially nonexistent.