Sol-ark - eating their own dog food?

[Gringo1]

Can someone confirm a fairly related question:

Is it normal for a Sol-ark 12K that is Off-Grid/ no Grid Input going into the Grid Breaker, to show small Voltage readings on the GEN section of the onboard Display.

Likewise also showing small AC Voltage on L1 and L2?

Im fairly certain this began right after the last update dongle I installed and that I called and asked about it etc... otherwise I may need to start looking for a Ground Loop coming from the array?

Since its doing it on both the GEN section and the Grid section this seems like it was part of the firmware/ called something like "Polling" etc.... but since the L1 and L2 are showing different Voltages it still gives me cause for concern

 

[robby]

Can someone confirm a fairly related question:

Is it normal for a Sol-ark 12K that is Off-Grid/ no Grid Input going into the Grid Breaker, to show small Voltage readings on the GEN section of the onboard Display.

Likewise also showing small AC Voltage on L1 and L2?

Im fairly certain this began right after the last update dongle I installed and that I called and asked about it etc... otherwise I may need to start looking for a Ground Loop coming from the array?

Since its doing it on both the GEN section and the Grid section this seems like it was part of the firmware/ called something like "Polling" etc.... but since the L1 and L2 are showing different Voltages it still gives me cause for concern

I would not worry about it.
The accuracy of the CT's both internal and external are not that precise at low voltages, plus they can also pick up parasitic voltages.
It could be a firmware update change but I doubt it. They are constantly doing little changes and if they do not work properly they remove or improve them in the next update.

 

[robby]

With TOU disabled, once it hits Gen Start SOC, it will charge back up to 95%. With TOU enabled, it charges to either A) the set TOU SOC with charge enaled, B) stops charging completely if it hits the next time slot with Charge disabled (same as your test results), or C) 95% (I suppose).

View attachment 131527

If that is the case then just set the Gen Start at 10% or some low number that you will not reach during normal operation.

 

[Llaves]

With TOU disabled, once it hits Gen Start SOC, it will charge back up to 95%. With TOU enabled, it charges to either A) the set TOU SOC with charge enaled, B) stops charging completely if it hits the next time slot with Charge disabled (same as your test results), or C) 95% (I suppose).

The one time my system reached Gen Start SoC, it charged to 100%. No idea why -

 

[robby]

The one time my system reached Gen Start SoC, it charged to 100%. No idea why -
View attachment 131539

IMHO The whole SOC thing is a bit unpredictable when you get past the 90% point. Sometimes it climbs up in a linear fashion and sometimes it just jumps up.
I have had my EG4LL stuck at 94% for a long time and then suddenly one or two minutes more of charge and hits 100%.

 

[Llaves]

IMHO The whole SOC thing is a bit unpredictable when you get past the 90% point. Sometimes it climbs up in a linear fashion and sometimes it just jumps up.
I have had my EG4LL stuck at 94% for a long time and then suddenly one or two minutes more of charge and hits 100%.

I agree that estimated SoC is not precise, but you can see a steady climb in the graph. In fact, it shows 95% at 12:00 (at which point it should have shut down), then 98% at 12:05, 99% at 12:10, then finally 100% at 12:15. So the inverter has plenty of opportunity to recognize it had reached and exceed 95% by it's own estimate.

 

[Think About It]

I would like to see multiple TOU tables. The tables would be activated by "conditions" and priorities. An example of a "condition" would be "When Grid power fails" would be set with highest priority and would activate TOU table #3.

I'd also like to see additional options for each TOU slot. Right now we have SOC%, Sell and Charge. I'd like to see a SOC range, (low, high), Grid Charge, Gen Charge, PV Charge, Sell to Grid, Sell to Home, Sell to Load and Limited to Load/Limited to Home for each slot.

 

[robby]

I would like to see multiple TOU tables. The tables would be activated by "conditions" and priorities. An example of a "condition" would be "When Grid power fails" would be set with highest priority and would activate TOU table #3.

It's never going to happen with just the Inverter. What your asking for are the exact features that the Sol-Ark Smart loads panel will deliver. It will do that plus a lot more.

I'd also like to see additional options for each TOU slot. Right now we have SOC%, Sell and Charge. I'd like to see a SOC range, (low, high), Grid Charge, Gen Charge, PV Charge, Sell to Grid, Sell to Home, Sell to Load and Limited to Load/Limited to Home for each slot.

Please explain how you would want each of those to work. Some of what I think your asking for can already be done.

 

[Ampster]

I am intrigued about the Smart Loads panel. I do plan on using the seasonal TOU features because my settings would be different in Winter, Spring & Fall and Summer.

 

[Hedges]

Is it normal for a Sol-ark 12K that is Off-Grid/ no Grid Input going into the Grid Breaker, to show small Voltage readings on the GEN section of the onboard Display.

Likewise also showing small AC Voltage on L1 and L2?

Capacitive coupling?
Try loading it with an incandescent light bulb.

Do make sure ground and neutral are connected appropriately. Check their voltages with DMM. Perhaps EMI filters would couple a larger signal.

 

[Think About It]

Please explain how you would want each of those to work. Some of what I think your asking for can already be done.

One thing that I don't like about the Sol-Ark configuration is that the system works completely differently with TOU enabled than without TOU enabled. And that some of the settings not in the TOU can either conflict with or work in conjunction with the TOU settings.

Rather than having time driven TOU slots, I would prefer event driven routines. Of course a specific Time of Day/Week could also be an event trigger. So could sunrise and sunset. So could utility power failure. I can think of many! I'm thinking more along the lines of Home Automation where you have Routines that are triggered by events.

A Sol-Ark has many ports, and some of the ports can be used for different purposes. For example the Grid port can be connected to a generator, Utility power, a breaker in a load center, nothing, (and potentially AC Coupled Solar??). The Gen Port can be connected to a generator, a smartloads panel, AC Coupled Solar or nothing. The Battery port can be connected to a battery, battery with charge controller (wind turbine) or nothing. The Load port can be connected to the main breaker of a load center, a branch circuit breaker in a load center - with or without AC Coupled Solar, or nothing.

So in my mind the first thing that should be configured in your Sol-Ark is your ports. You would map your physical ports to a "Port type" Then in the rest of the configuration you would use the "Port Type" not the physical port. You would also specify if the port is bidirectional or unidirectional and which direction power flows. The purpose of this would be to simplify configuration. You could look at your ports configuration page and immediately understand how your Sol-ARk is wired.
For example, a config might look like this:

Physical Port

Port Type

Direction

Grid	Utility Power	bidirectional
Gen	Generator	In
Battery	Battery	bidirectional
Load	Load Center - Main Breaker	Out

Additional priorities, TOU and port parameters would be done referencing the "Port Type", not the physical port.

I realize that many Sol-Ark users have mastered and tweaked their configurations. People become comfortable with what they are used to. A Sol-Ark is a complex device that can be configured in a multitude of wiring configurations and use cases. Sol-Ark's biggest asset is also their biggest downside because it's not simple or intuitive to configure.

 

[Llaves]

A Sol-Ark has many ports, and some of the ports can be used for different purposes

The ability to map "ports" to different functions results in endless confusion. My generator is connected to the Grid port, as recommended by Sol-Ark. But when it comes to setting certain parameters, like Charge Amps or (I think) Charge SoC, it actually uses the Gen parameter values, in spite of the fact that these can only be accessed for setting by changing the setting the Gen Charge, while it needs to be on Grid Charge (I think) for charging to actually occur.

Ports should just be denoted Port 1, Port 2, etc. and their function should be set in a conifguration panel as you suggest. Not every port will have the same capabilities, but when you set them to some function or another, the parameter names should stay constant, like Gen Charge Amps would apply to whichever port is configured as the generator port. Of course, this is a massive change from the current design, so even if it's adopted, our existing units will be left behind.

 

[Ampster]

Rather than having time driven TOU slots, I would prefer event driven routines. Of course a specific Time of Day/Week could also be an event trigger.

Yes that is how I view TOU settings. I have certain times that are not related to TOU rate time periods. for example my high rate period is from 4PM until Midnight but I have a 6PM trigger which is when selling is no longer enabled. I am not sure I understand why, but sometimes it is selling from the battery after the sun goes down. I still have lots to learn but I don't mind the extra battery usage if I am getting credit at $0.43 per kWh in winter and $.55 per kWh in summer. the goal is to essentially be off grid during high rate periods and use solar to charge my batteries. Charging my EVs takes place at super off peak or from solar after my batteries are charged.

 

[Think About It]

Ports should just be denoted Port 1, Port 2, etc. and their function should be set in a conifguration panel as you suggest. Not every port will have the same capabilities, but when you set them to some function or another, the parameter names should stay constant, like Gen Charge Amps would apply to whichever port is configured as the generator port.

Exactly, once a port is designated as "Generator" or "Utility" or "AC Coupled", parameters should be set for those mapped port types, not against their "physical port".

My home automation system has "scenes" and "routines". I'd like to see a similar analogy in Sol-Ark configuration.

 

[629658]

Yes that is how I view TOU settings. I have certain times that are not related to TOU rate time periods. for example my high rate period is from 4PM until Midnight but I have a 6PM trigger which is when selling is no longer enabled. I am not sure I understand why, but sometimes it is selling from the battery after the sun goes down. I still have lots to learn but I don't mind the extra battery usage if I am getting credit at $0.43 per kWh in winter and $.55 per kWh in summer. the goal is to essentially be off grid during high rate periods and use solar to charge my batteries. Charging my EVs takes place at super off peak or from solar after my batteries are charged.

I have mine operating as you describe. I have attached some of my current settings through Solar Assistant because it’s easier to see. I use my TOU to buy at the cheapest hourly price. I only need a couple of hours per day usually. If power prices are below $0.03 kWh I will go ahead and stay on grid because it’s so cheap so I might go 3-4 hrs on grid. Our prices fluctuate hourly. I do not grid sell stored power only excess PV production after our batteries are 100% and loads are covered.

 

[robby]

One thing that I don't like about the Sol-Ark configuration is that the system works completely differently with TOU enabled than without TOU enabled. And that some of the settings not in the TOU can either conflict with or work in conjunction with the TOU settings.

Most of the things that conflict with the TOU settings get back control if there is a power outage.

Rather than having time driven TOU slots, I would prefer event driven routines. Of course a specific Time of Day/Week could also be an event trigger. So could sunrise and sunset. So could utility power failure. I can think of many! I'm thinking more along the lines of Home Automation where you have Routines that are triggered by events.

Smart loads panel will handle this.

A Sol-Ark has many ports, and some of the ports can be used for different purposes. For example the Grid port can be connected to a generator, Utility power, a breaker in a load center, nothing, (and potentially AC Coupled Solar??). The Gen Port can be connected to a generator, a smartloads panel, AC Coupled Solar or nothing. The Battery port can be connected to a battery, battery with charge controller (wind turbine) or nothing. The Load port can be connected to the main breaker of a load center, a branch circuit breaker in a load center - with or without AC Coupled Solar, or nothing.

So in my mind the first thing that should be configured in your Sol-Ark is your ports. You would map your physical ports to a "Port type" Then in the rest of the configuration you would use the "Port Type" not the physical port. You would also specify if the port is bidirectional or unidirectional and which direction power flows. The purpose of this would be to simplify configuration. You could look at your ports configuration page and immediately understand how your Sol-ARk is wired.
For example, a config might look like this:

Physical Port

Port Type

Direction

Grid	Utility Power	bidirectional
Gen	Generator	In
Battery	Battery	bidirectional
Load	Load Center - Main Breaker	Out

Additional priorities, TOU and port parameters would be done referencing the "Port Type", not the physical port.

I think that when you add this many changes the chances of the firmware developing major bugs becomes a lot higher.
Maybe this is something they will think about in a whole new line up of Inverters but I don't think it's not going to happen with this generation.

I realize that many Sol-Ark users have mastered and tweaked their configurations. People become comfortable with what they are used to. A Sol-Ark is a complex device that can be configured in a multitude of wiring configurations and use cases. Sol-Ark's biggest asset is also their biggest downside because it's not simple or intuitive to configure.

Well we could not disagree more.
I think you need to use a Growatt or MPP and see what a non intuitive interface really looks like.
I think Sol-Ark probably has the easiest interface to work with. Everything is spelled out for you rather than having to deal with 3 letter acronyms. Using PowerView makes it even simpler as everything is expanded and clearly labeled with no size restriction.
It just takes a bit of time. It took me about 3 months to get completely comfortable with all the settings and to customize them in a way that used the least amount of utility power.
Most of this time was waiting time. I would try a setting and then wait a day or two to see the results.
I actually enjoyed the process because my time was paying off with a increasing amounts of saved power.
My next adjustment will be seasonal changes. I manually did it this year but with what I have learned I plan to implement it during next summer so that it is automatic after that.

 

[Llaves]

As an "pure" off-grid user, I've started to wonder if much of the complexity of the GUI stems from the need to provide a wide range of options to grid-tied users that don't apply to an off-grid installation. Perhaps Sol-Ark could provide two different GUIs (selectable at any time), one for off-grid, one for grid-tied. The off-grid GUI would be simpler/more basic than the grid-tie GUI since many of the options are not very useful in the off-grid configuration. And of course, someone with a sufficient complex/non-standard off-grid situation would always be free to use the full grid-tie GUI, just like we do now.

 

[629658]

Most of the things that conflict with the TOU settings get back control if there is a power outage.

Smart loads panel will handle this.

I think that when you add this many changes the chances of the firmware developing major bugs becomes a lot higher.
Maybe this is something they will think about in a whole new line up of Inverters but I don't think it's not going to happen with this generation.


Well we could not disagree more.
I think you need to use a Growatt or MPP and see what a non intuitive interface really looks like.
I think Sol-Ark probably has the easiest interface to work with. Everything is spelled out for you rather than having to deal with 3 letter acronyms. Using PowerView makes it even simpler as everything is expanded and clearly labeled with no size restriction.
It just takes a bit of time. It took me about 3 months to completely comfortable with all the settings and to customize them in a way that used the least amount of utility power.
Most of this time was waiting time. I would try a setting and then wait a day or two to see the results.
I actually enjoyed the process because my time was paying off with a increasing amounts of saved power.
My next adjustment will be seasonal changes. I manually did it this year but with what I have learned I plan to implement it during next summer so that it is automatic after that.

Robby how do you plan to implement different profiles for winter and summer? Interesting concept.

 

[robby]

Robby how do you plan to implement different profiles for winter and summer? Interesting concept.

Before winter had started one of the head techs had given me some details that I wrote down somewhere but cannot find them right now. I will have to give him a call when it is nearer to the summer.
I will be revising this come May when it makes sense to implement it.

 

[629658]

Before winter had started one of the head techs had given me some details that I wrote down somewhere but cannot find them right now. I will have to give him a call when it is nearer to the summer.
I will be revising this come May when it makes sense to implement it.

Keep us in the loop. I’d like to know.