Sol-Ark's Comment on EG4 18k-PV-12-LV

[robby]

That's the fella. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/battery-banks-parasitic-loads-and-low-sun-hours.56065/post-741701

John is a really nice guy. He is well liked in the Industry and has a Ton of technical Youtube videos that he made for Fortress Power.

John won me over when I had a battery problem with one of my eFlexes and he spent two hours on the phone helping me fix the problem. What impressed me the most was that when we were approaching the two hour mark John said to me if we do not fix this issue in 5 more minutes I am going to ship out a new battery to you in the Morning and send you a shipping label so you can ship back the old one. That was way beyond any normal customer service I had experienced in years.

 

[Zwy]

Interesting how these threads have gone from pointing out the real issue with SS, the bad customer service, to bashing Sol-Ark, mostly because Sol-Ark costs too much. If the main beef people have is that Sol-Ark costs too much, Sol-Ark has to be smiling right now.

Number one rule I learned in the 36 years of my business experience:

If you aren't hearing complaints about your pricing, you are not charging enough.

 

[DIYrich]

When I buy something, it is one of three options:
1) Cheapest
2) Best "Value"
3) "Best"

If #1, then it won't be Sol-Ark or the EG4 18k
If #2 or #3, then I'm not spending that much to go with the new kid on the block.
To go with the new kid on the block, it would have to be significantly more capable with no close #2.
Note: I would go with a new product of a firm with a demonstrated track record in the product line.

 

[DIYrich]

Number one rule I learned in the 36 years of my business experience:

If you aren't hearing complaints about your pricing, you are not charging enough.

Depends upon your target market. What is your "competitive advantage". You haven't been competing on price. If you compete on price, then people won't complain about your pricing. Either they buy it because you are the cheapest, or they buy a competitor's cheaper product.

 

[Cheap 4-life]

That's your argument? Again, refer to my prior posts on determining manufacturers vs. OEMs vs. relabellers, the casework validates it.
It seems like there is alot of hooplah over "who invented the Sol-Ark inverter". One person has mentioned Solax... that's not a whole home backup inverter with integrated wiring compartment. Others have yet to show a Sol-Ark inverter, pre-Sol-Ark, but have validated Sol-Arks exclusivity claims to its territory, which in turn, illustrate a huge difference between a company like EG4 (which lacks exclusivity) and Sol-Ark (which commands it).

I mentioned SolaX because it was the first hybrid inverter not SolArk. Several on this forum have said many times that SolArk made the first hybrid inverter.. the SolaX (first hybrid inverter) isn’t whole home backup with integrated wiring compartment. I never implied or said that SolArk didnt come up with new stuff. I have said several times that they had things they wanted to add to an EXISTING hybrid inverter technology. They act like they invented the wheel. All they did was add some good features (for the USA market) to existing hybrid inverters technology. Revolutionize/completely change, I wouldn't agree with that and see no reason SolArk should be taking that stance. They added some good features like splitphase to the 8k and then more useful features after that. No reason to say they made the first hybrid inverters.
Of course there isn’t a SolArk before SolArk lol. That’s like saying show a Deye (or any inverter) before a Deye was made, you can’t... however there was hybrid inverters before SolArk….
i could be wrong but I think Deye had a single phase hybrid inverter that they were making and SolArk simply wanted an inverter made so Deye basically used their single phase hybrid and made them into splitphase and added other features SolArk wanted and slapped a SolArk name on them.. can’t prove that because Deyes singlephase hybrids became available to the public at just about the same exact time as SolArks splitphase.
yes SolArk basically made Deye not sell the splitphase inverters to the US. SolArk makes Deye a lot of money due to all the inverters (SolArks) they have Deye create/make for them. Makes sense that Deye didnt want to lose SolArks business by selling a few splitphase models to the usa here and there..

 

[Cheap 4-life]

Agree and that is not the Market that Sol-Ark targets.

I could be wrong but I’d say most DIY installs are under or at the $26k range and this is a DIY forum which SolArk gets a lot of business from.

 

[Cheap 4-life]

Number one rule I learned in the 36 years of my business experience:

If you aren't hearing complaints about your pricing, you are not charging enough.

Whatever happened to a fair price for both?…

 

[Zwy]

Depends upon your target market. What is your "competitive advantage". You haven't been competing on price. If you compete on price, then people won't complain about your pricing. Either they buy it because you are the cheapest, or they buy a competitor's cheaper product.

I've also found that commanding a higher price than the prevailing price among competitors leads to a better clientele and a status of being a level above the competition.

Don't compete on price; compete on quality along with customer satisfaction and retention. If you do those 3 correctly, the market you are looking for will find your product.

 

[Zwy]

Whatever happened to a fair price for both?…

Why do both? If you offer quality with customer service, charge for it.

Limited resources of time, employees. If you are overwhelmed, raise the prices.

Commodities are priced different, the average customer doesn't know one brand of item from another, so they base the price of the commodity by price.

However if you are selling a commodity with customer service, then it is value added. Resources are limited, so the price can command a premium based upon quality, perceived customer service/satisfaction and retention. The value added portion consists of knowledge and expertise about the product. The product you are selling needs to be a complete package of quality, service, expertise knowledge along with ensuring customer satisfaction. That all comes at a price.

 

[Quattrohead]

However if you are selling a commodity with customer service, then it is value added

That is what I did with my IT business. My value add was to have the systems ready to go when I hit the customers door to minimize their down time.

 

[robby]

That is what I did with my IT business. My value add was to have the systems ready to go when I hit the customers door to minimize their down time.

I appreciate and pay for this kind of service or product anytime I can afford it.
If I cannot afford it then I typically just do without the item until I can.

 

[robby]

I could be wrong but I’d say most DIY installs are under or at the $26k range and this is a DIY forum which SolArk gets a lot of business from.

I think "a lot" is very relative. I have no idea how many Inverters they sell per week but given their facility size and the amount of staff they have I would assume they must sell several hundred per week. ( A Huge guess on my part, but if anyone has a better number I would love to hear it.)

 

[Oldphile]

The reason why this argument goes on and on is because Sol-Ark cut a deal with Deye for exclusivity in the USA, cutting off a cheaper solution for the DIY community. I don't know who developed the technology, but why does it matter. Enjoy your new EG4 like I enjoy my new Sol-Ark 15K.

 

[cs1234]

I think "a lot" is very relative. I have no idea how many Inverters they sell per week but given their facility size and the amount of staff they have I would assume they must sell several hundred per week. ( A Huge guess on my part, but if anyone has a better number I would love to hear it.)

I'm surprised you don't have full access to all their numbers, with how buddy buddy you are with them.

 

[Rusty959]

Probably unlike most here, I'm actually buying a hybrid inverter soon and was dead set on the Sol Ark 15k before the EG4 18KPV was announced. I've currently got 32 bifacial panels running a grid tie.

For me, the extra 3kw of solar power in the EG4 is less useful than what I consider a more usable setup in the Sol Ark. I can easily hook up my existing setup as as it sits on just 2 MPPTs on the Sol Ark, where I'd have to butt up against the 600 VOC alleged limit on the EG4. Either way an extra 26 amp MPPT is more useful than an extra 15 amp.
Plus in the future I want to screw around with more panels in non-traditional locations on my house, and the lower MPPT min voltage of the Sol Ark will make this more doable.

The extra 3k AC on the Sol Ark when there's active PV honestly isn't a big deal to me. Maybe if I was completely off grid, but in that case I wouldn't be buying a hybrid.

I don't really care about the 5 vs <20ms transition time. I don't lose power enough that it will be all that inconvenient even if there is a noticeable flicker.

I really wish I could do a side by side test for some of the other nit picking on flicker and edge cases some people accuse the other system of. I've actually got access to tools to view and measure the waveforms which I think would be insightful.

At the moment the winner for me is the Sol Ark. I can't justify a <$2k (after tax credit) cost savings to try the new kid on the block, even as fun as it would be.
Now if Signature Solar wanted to cut a deal on a unit in trade for a video review from an engineer with a pretty unique DIY solar setup, I'd have to reconsider lol.

Either inverter I end up with I'm planning on running EG4 batteries so SS is getting a sale regardless.

 

[Nan_wpg]

Why do both? If you offer quality with customer service, charge for it.

Limited resources of time, employees. If you are overwhelmed, raise the prices.

Commodities are priced different, the average customer doesn't know one brand of item from another, so they base the price of the commodity by price.

However if you are selling a commodity with customer service, then it is value added. Resources are limited, so the price can command a premium based upon quality, perceived customer service/satisfaction and retention. The value added portion consists of knowledge and expertise about the product. The product you are selling needs to be a complete package of quality, service, expertise knowledge along with ensuring customer satisfaction. That all comes at a price.

Quality, price, service. Pick 2. (As told to me by friends who own businesses)

 

[zorlig]

I just need an inverter that can exploit time of use for a few thousand so it will make economic sense - and we are finally moving in that direction.

 

[misterbubbacat]

Buy it for $8,250.00

Buy it for $5,599.00

Buy it for $2,628.00

There's always a cheaper and more capable option if you look harder, beyond Plano, TX to their supplier in Ningo, China ?
But then, this is not for folks that needs hand holding, UL 1741, and blah blah.

 

[Zwy]

Quality, price, service. Pick 2. (As told to me by friends who own businesses)

Yes, you can have 2 but not all 3.

 

[James Showalter]

Comments like these are why people don't get good vibes from SS. They come off as unprofessional and would be better off not said.

I'll take that criticism, and will try to do a better job of staying on math and facts.

 

[James Showalter]

Yes, you can have 2 but not all 3.

I think this is more of a tech revolution, in that case, gravity may be suspended for a time, and at some moments you can have it all.
The real competitor is the grid IMO and companies have to get to parity with solar and storage. it will happen at some point and that is worth pushing hard for imo.

 

[pilotdrh]

I Just called Eco-Direct to get some Prices of the closest matching systems.

Sol-Ark 15K Inverter.
19KW of Panel (400W Tier1 Panels)
28.8KWh of Home Grid Batteries
Misc Items: Roof Mounts, Wire, Fuse Systems Etc.
$53,000 including Shipping.

Enphase System
19.2KW of Panels
Combiner Box Ensemble
Gateway coms unit
20 KWh of IQ Enphase Batteries.
Misc parts could vary the price so:
Price Between $58,000 - $60,000 Shipped.


Solar Edge System

They are not Selling them just right now due to some chip issues that SE is having.
Also she said the Nickel Cobalt Batteries it uses are not in stock.

Estimated Price she said would roughly be the same as Enphase.

I retired in 2021 and moved to the Philippines. Last fall I decided to have a solar power system installed. I knew very little about solar at the time so I gave myself an education. I decided what I wanted and requested quotes from 4 different installers. Labor is one of the cheapest things here in the PI and I'm not adverse to spreading the wealth around some, no need to be a cheap charlie. Three gave me quotes, none of them were even close to my spec. Only 1 replied with an updated quote as I requested and it still wasn't close to my spec. Basically they just want to give you their standard. So after more research I decided I liked the Sol-Ark 15, advised that they did not ship to the PI but I was given a contact that could sell and ship it. That company wanted over $11k to supply it. Being a veteran I wanted to support a vet company but I could get a Deye 16 kW delivered to my door for $3.2k. Well I have a Deye. I installed my system (with the exception of using some of my wife's family members to put the panels on the ground mount), Ground mount, 21 kWp of PV (30 x 700 watt bifacial) breakers, disconnects, cables, conduit, 30 kWh of battery, shipping, labor for the panel installs and some concrete work, 16 kW hybrid inverter.....all in approx $21k. I'm actually spending another approx $150 for 2 new control boxes since I don't like the original ones I used. My monthly usage before the system was installed ran about 1100 - 1200 kWh a month. I'm grid tied but I don't export, not worth the hassle to me. Grid tied for the surge capacity. Although Uncle Sam requires me to pay taxes to the US I can't get the solar tax credit because my house isn't there. IMO the tax credit is one of the reasons installation cost so much. Plus the permitting and stuff. Here, I didn't need any permits or inspections. And a side bennie of retiring here is my 11 year old twins are not getting exposed to all the gender affirming care and grooming going on in the US.

Oh yeah, my system has been online since the end of Oct 2022. I did have an issue with importing power which was fixed after about 6 weeks with an update. I think it was a result of the grid not being very stiff.

 

[1201]

Seeing the mighty SolArk come on here to defend itself brings a giant smile to my face. Your competition has arrived and the consequences will be devastating. Time to think about lowering your price if you want to survive.

: Remindme 10 years

 

[Hedges]

Although Uncle Sam requires me to pay taxes to the US I can't get the solar tax credit because my house isn't there.

Says your accountant, or did you determine that by reading the tax rules yourself?
Double check if that is really true. Sounds like you do use the equipment for your home, so I thought it would have been eligible.

 

[pilotdrh]

Says your accountant, or did you determine that by reading the tax rules yourself?
Double check if that is really true. Sounds like you do use the equipment for your home, so I thought it would have been eligible.

That's what the tax rules say. Just like when I got married years ago I couldn't claim my stepsons as dependents unless they lived in the US, Canada or Mexico. WTF.