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Sol-Ark's Comment on EG4 18k-PV-12-LV

Could just be wording but it says several time “Deyes technology“ not SolArks

That's your argument? Again, refer to my prior posts on determining manufacturers vs. OEMs vs. relabellers, the casework validates it.
It seems like there is alot of hooplah over "who invented the Sol-Ark inverter". One person has mentioned Solax... that's not a whole home backup inverter with integrated wiring compartment. Others have yet to show a Sol-Ark inverter, pre-Sol-Ark, but have validated Sol-Arks exclusivity claims to its territory, which in turn, illustrate a huge difference between a company like EG4 (which lacks exclusivity) and Sol-Ark (which commands it).

It's almost like those who criticize global manufacturing don't want to take pride in home grown technology, nor admit the kinds of contractual obligations which global manufacturing requires. And it doesn't matter - you don't need to understand this stuff. It is fun to learn about.

What's also fun to learn about is proper string sizing. I can provide countless string configurations as to how Sol-Ark can get to above 18kW. I've only found one solar panel (not in stock) that can get to 18kW DC nameplate capacity on the EG4 inverter with a valid circuit layout and the founder of EG4 has admitted that capacity is for "future modules". Which again, begs the question - how much validation of the EG4 18kW PV dc processing capability has actually been tested?

Sol-Ark knows it's inverter very well, and despite having 50% larger MPPTs, claims an energy processing capability of 15kW (albiet, a more valuable AC than DC capability). But my point here is that Sol-Ark isn't claiming 18kW of capability, and there's a reason for that which we don't particularly want EG4 to copy at this moment in time. Instead, we're very interested in seeing evidence of any sort of long term duration studies that have been performed to validate how a lighter weight inverter with undersized MPPT components can operate continuously at a higher processing power, even if only on the DC side of the inverter. And if the answer is "wait until the future" then again, what validation testing has been done in the past?

Anyone who thinks global manufacturing is a black and white dichotomy where America can do nothing but import whatever China provides needs to remove the copycat culture blinders and understand that ultimately, features found on the Sol-Ark inverter have an origination point. And if they think that the origination point is from China, a culture which doesn't understand why a USA-based home would even need a 200A grid-pass through function, well, that person needs to stop being so cynical. China manufacturing are very good order takers if you tell them precisely what to do and own that quality control process. But regarding innovation, as the undersized PV MPPT and AC nameplate capacity of the EG4 shows, copycats will always result in pale imitations. So don't give into the cynicism of copycat culture.

If you don't think Sol-Ark originated the Sol-Ark inverter, fine. Show me a Sol-Ark inverter, with the features that made Sol-Ark the success that it is today, on an inverter that pre-dates the Sol-Ark inverter. If you attack the Sol-Ark for being too expensive, show me an equivalent system on the US market that doesn't require an egregious waiting period. Make a complete argument, so we can stop the circular firing squad.
 
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I am talking about the Inverter Firmware not the App or Web Portal.
Poweview is not owned by Deye it is owned by E-Linter Ltd.
E-Linter sells their monitoring services to several Inverter companies.
All Sol-Ark firmware updates come from Sol-Arks servers in Texas.
I never said Powerview is owned by Deye.

E-Linter is a software company that makes custom apps for Sol-Ark (Power View), Deye (Deye Cloud), SunSynk (Synsynk connect)

All of these apps use Solarman API and hardware - https://www.solarmanpv.com/products/data-logger/stick-logger/
 
I never said Powerview is owned by Deye.

E-Linter is a software company that makes custom apps for Sol-Ark (Power View), Deye (Deye Cloud), SunSynk (Synsynk connect)

All of these apps use Solarman API and hardware - https://www.solarmanpv.com/products/data-logger/stick-logger/
Who cares about the API, the main argument you are making is that Deye is writing Sol-Arks firmware and I am telling you that the companies parted ways in Firmware development a long time ago.
Sol-Ark does all their Firmware development in Texas and it uploaded to Inverters from their Servers in Texas.

You have the Senior Technical Manager of Sol-Ark in this very thread giving you information on what is going on but your ignoring that and instead making assumptions.
 
First off, Sol-Ark did create its inverter - how else would they have exclusivity from their contract manufacturing partner this late in the game? Did anyone see the Sol-Ark form factor on a Deye inverter prior to Sol-Ark? Tom (our CEO) has been consistent on this point for years - even when I worked for one of Sol-Ark's partners (and now competitor / imitators). Sol-Ark is also exclusively focused on inverter manufacturing - and ancillary hardware like DC optimizers. It's not primarily a material distributor with an import agreement.
And that is the Elephant in the room!
In 35 Years of doing Electronic Engineering I have never seen a Chinese company give exclusive rights to a small American company to distribute a product, especially a product that is as cutting edge as the Sol-Ark 8K.
And Sol-Ark was most certainly a very tiny company at the time when the 8K came out.
All manufactures to a tee are smart enough to know that the route to making the most amount of money is to do what Luxpower is doing and get it into the hands of as many different distributors as they possibly can or to find an extremely big partner in America that they can give a limited time distribution to.
 
Robbie, as much as I appreciate your enthusiasm and arguments, I think ruchira88 raises a valid concern about who owns the monitoring platform. Sol-Ark is very concerned about this issue - as you would expect of a veteran owned company based in Texas. Ruchira88 agrees that Powerview is not owned by Deye and would be interested in knowing that Sol-Ark is moving over to MySolArk to further increase the security of our cloud monitoring system. Anything cloud-related is fundamentally insecure, and Sol-Ark does not require internet access for warranty service (unlike Tesla). But in the spirit of the topic, it begs the question, who owns the EG4 monitoring system? Is LuxPower the actual provider? If so, what does that mean? These are good questions to ask.
 
And that is the Elephant in the room!
In 35 Years of doing Electronic Engineering I have never seen a Chinese company give exclusive rights to a small American company to distribute a product, especially a product that is as cutting edge as the Sol-Ark 8K.
And Sol-Ark was most certainly a very tiny company at the time when the 8K came out.
All manufactures to a tee are smart enough to know that the route to making the most amount of money is to do what Luxpower is doing and get it into the hands of as many different distributors as they possibly can or to find an extremely big partner in America that they can give a limited time distribution to.

I have never seen a company that gives their IP to a contract manufacturer in China and say "Hey do whatever you wish using our IP outside the US, we don't care"
 
It's not that you don't care about what happens to it. It's that you can't control it. That's what America is complaining about. There's nothing new to this argument.

Ultimately, you have to decide to give up your IP to participate in global manufacturing, or not have a market. As I said in a prior post, if you want to change things, one thing we all can do is to contact our representatives to say that the domestic manufacturing tax incentive should apply to residential tax code, not just corporate owners of solar arrays.

But ultimately, you want the road back to onshore manufacturing to come through US companies like Sol-Ark, rather than foreign-owned entities like Luxpower. There are politics behind manufacturing, whether we like it or not. But at the very least, consider the supply chain implications. Exclusivity for the best global market segment (USA) indicates strength - which as Robby has pointed out, only happens to startups (Sol-Ark back in the day) for a damn good reason (like actually creating the product). Likewise, having a multiple importers of the same Chinese product (luxpower) indicates weakness. If you want to define labelers vs. manufacturers, use that as a guide.
 
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Who cares about the API, the main argument you are making is that Deye is writing Sol-Arks firmware and I am telling you that the companies parted ways in Firmware development a long time ago.
Ok, let's see what happens to low noise and low power features in a while. Your argument will be invalid If Sol-Ark ends up implementing those features in its firmware
 
Interesting read :LOL:

exactly...

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Portable Solar, LLC v. Lion Energy, LLC​

United States District Court, District of Utah
Aug 8, 2022
2:22-CV-00026-DAK (D. Utah Aug. 8, 2022)Copy Citation
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2:22-CV-00026-DAK
08-08-2022
PORTABLE SOLAR, LLC dba SOL-ARK, a Texas limited liability company, Plaintiff, v. LION ENERGY, LLC, a Utah limited liability company, Defendant.

DALE A. KIMBALL UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
MEMORANDUM DECISION AND ORDER DENYING WITHOUT PREJUDICE DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO DISMISS FOR FAILURE TO JOIN AN INDISPENSABLE PARTY OR, IN THE ALTERNATIVE, TO JOIN A NECESSARY PARTY
DALE A. KIMBALL UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
This matter is before the court on Defendant Lion Energy, LLC's (“Defendant”) motion to dismiss, pursuant to Fed.R.Civ.P. 12(b)(7), (19), Plaintiff Portable Solar, LLC dba Sol-Ark's (“Plaintiff”) case for failure to join an indispensable party or, in the alternative, to join a necessary party. The court held a hearing on the motion on July 21, 2022. At the hearing, Defendant was represented by Matthew M. Boley. Plaintiff was represented by Christopher M. Von Maack and Christopher E. Thorsen. The court has carefully considered the materials submitted by the parties, the arguments made by counsel at the hearing, and the law and facts relating to this matter. Now being fully advised, the court renders the following Memorandum Decision and Order.
BACKGROUND
Plaintiff filed its Complaint in this case on January 10, 2022. In the Complaint, Plaintiff asserts that it develops, markets, and sells solar battery technology, including storage string inverter products, which connect to a series or ‘string' of solar panels and convert the power from Direct Current (DC) into Alternate Current (AC) electricity, and that it markets and sells its products across the United States, including in Utah County, Utah. Plaintiff also asserts that, in or about 2018, it entered into a Non-Compete Agreement with NingBo Deye Inverter Technology Co. Ltd. (“Deye”), and that, pursuant thereto, Plaintiff had exclusive rights in the United States and Canada (the “Territory”) to market and sell Deye's storage string inverter products and technology (collectively, the “Technology”). Defendant submits that the NonCompete Agreement was merged, through a comprehensive integration clause, into Plaintiff and Deye's later Distribution Agreement regarding the Technology. (agreements collectively, the “Agreements”).
 
I tried Casetext and they subjected me to a very intrusive cavity search.
So others don't transgress in a similar fashion... Sol-Ark asserted its rights and the court agreed.
 
Ok, let's see what happens to low noise and low power features in a while. Your argument will be invalid If Sol-Ark ends up implementing those features in its firmware
Why would it be invalid?
Do you know which company asked for those features?
I have no idea who requested them, it could have been Sol-Ark or any of the other companies E-Linter works with.
 
Why would it be invalid?
Do you know which company asked for those features?
I have no idea who requested them, it could have been Sol-Ark or any of the other companies E-Linter works with.

Didn't you just say that they parted ways a long time ago and Deye isn't updating their inverters like Sol-Ark do?

What does E-Linter has to do about any of these? E-Linter just builds a frontend app for Solarman platform. Solarman is just a third party that provides monitoring for many inverter brands
 
Didn't you just say that they parted ways a long time ago and Deye isn't updating their inverters like Sol-Ark do?

What does E-Linter has to do about any of these? E-Linter just builds a frontend app for Solarman platform. Solarman is just a third party that provides monitoring for many inverter brands
Yes and your point?
Firmware updates have nothing to do with E-Linter and
Sol-Ark dropped Solarman years ago.
BTW any proof of E-Linter is using code from Solarmam.
not that it makes a differenc.
 
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Yes and your point?
Firmare updates have nothing to do with E-Linter
Not sure if you are serious now. The point is that Sol-Ark is potentially going to have 2 new features which Deye introduced to their inverters 3 months ago. You are arguing that there is no connection between Deye and Sol-Ark for firmware development
 
Sol-Ark dropped Solarman years ago.
BTW any proof of E-Linter is using code from Solarmam.
not that it makes a differenc.


Can you see any similarities? ;) SunSynk openly mentions the use of Solarman logger and API. SunSynk app goes down during Solarman server upgrades.


Do any of these loggers seem familiar to you?
 
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I tried Casetext and they subjected me to a very intrusive cavity search.
So others don't transgress in a similar fashion... Sol-Ark asserted its rights and the court agreed.
The court didn't agree on the facts of that lawsuit. The case was settled by both parties out of court and dismissed.

Can you shed any light on the Lion Energy product now being sold (again)?

I think you raise some fair points about the difficulty and reality of global manufacturing.

Curious, does Sol-Ark receive royalties from Sunsynk and Deye for the units sold outside of the US based on it's original IP ?
 
Not sure if you are serious now. The point is that Sol-Ark is potentially going to have 2 new features which Deye introduced to their inverters 3 months ago. You are arguing that there is no connection between Deye and Sol-Ark for firmware development
Hate to burst your Bubble but I just got off the Phone with the Senior engineer at Sol-Ark and he says that they were alerted by E-Linter to those features being added to the Software months ago, but that they do not apply to Any Sol-Ark model Inverter. So sorry but your theory has gone up in flames!

He was very puzzled as to why you would think this was relevant to the Inverter Firmware situation and I explained to him that your putting together a theory that if Sol-Ark is using a Deye features then Sol-Ark must be getting their Firmware from Deye. He laughed and asked if I was serious.

He said to tell you that Sol-Ark and Deye are partner companies and that any Changes or Exploits found to the Hardware's capabilities are shared amongst both parties. Each company does it's own Firmware but they are both aware of the full command structure and what they do. It is up to each company to decide what they want to do with what is available.
 
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