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Sol-Ark's Comment on EG4 18k-PV-12-LV

HighTechLab

HighTechLab

AKA Dexter - CTO of Current Connected, LLC
Joined
Sep 23, 2019
Messages
1,716
Youtube comment system is garbage so I'm sharing this to the forum.


1683085139395.png

I respect Sol-Ark greatly, and have been doing business with them longer than any other company. They power my house, my parents property, and a lot of family members. This is a well thought out comment in my opinion. Please keep discussion civil...I'm not hesitating to use the "report" button if you get off topic or on a tangent.
 
All good points. My take (from watching Wills video and everything else available to read) is if you have the extra money then get a SolArk. If you don’t or your Cheap the 18k (12k) Eg4 is probably for you.
 
I think Luxpowers biggest challenge is how to convince Installers and customers who are dropping $30-$60K dollars on a system, that it is worth going with their unproven equipment for a $1500 - $2000 savings.
This was one of the points that Will-P was making at the end of his video.
Based on friendships I have made in the Solar Industry I suspect the hardest part is getting the Installers to buy into their Inverter.
The one thing my good installer friend has always said is that once he puts up a system he does not want to go back and fix anything. With Sol-Ark that is pretty a given, but with Luxpower it is going to have to be earned.
 
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HighTechLab said:
Youtube comment system is garbage so I'm sharing this to the forum.


View attachment 147641

I respect Sol-Ark greatly, and have been doing business with them longer than any other company. They power my house, my parents property, and a lot of family members. This is a well thought out comment in my opinion. Please keep discussion civil...I'm not hesitating to use the "report" button if you get off topic or on a tangent.
Click to expand...
It remains to be seen how the EG4 18k will react in the field. Ease of setup, maintenance, The customer service, warranty, Ect.

If it passes muster it will probably appeal to a large group of people.

For me right now the price difference just isn’t large enough to dissuade me from Sol-Arks proven record but that’s me.
 
I will agree with many and say the EG4 18k looks like a damn nice machine.

On that note, just to reinforce the "tried and true" Sol-Ark, even with 9kw rating of AC output direct from batteries, when I first got it I thought I would never use that much, let alone 12k with PV, but now I find myself routinely running the inverter at 100% for very extended periods of time, sometimes hours. From charging the Tesla, to selling back to the grid, running it at capacity doesn't stress me out at all, and that's something that is very hard to make me feel comfortable doing.

I've thought about upgrading to either a Sol-Ark 15k, or adding another 12k, but until I actually hit a limit, where I can't do something, then there's no reason to spend the money. Like most any Sol-Ark customer will say, IT JUST WORKS.

I really hope EG4 gets to that same point, but its gonna take a long time.
 
I'm doing some quick shorthand math - The majority of customers with low-temp concerns are in locations where it gets to about -22C.

Let's use a Rich Solar 400w single-face panel, the ones I'm most likely to recommend a customer to:

1683086646868.png1683087566841.png



Plug these numbers into a handy dandy calculator, we get strings of 10 panels max.





1683087616827.png


MPPT 1 would then have two strings of 4000w = 8000w
MPPT 2 would have another 4000w
MPPT 3 would have another 4000w

Total is 16,000 watts. I also like to overpanel by 20% if possible because most panels only make 80% of their rated spec (unless conditions are absolutely perfect). No overpaneling possible (which you can with the Sol-Ark).

Since Imp is 9.71A, we couldn't add another parallel string without exceeding the current limits:
With an extra string on MPPT1, we would be at 29.13A (and very strange to wire in). It would also need a combiner box with blocking diodes and per-string fusing because the short circuit current is over 30A
Two strings on MPPT2 would be 18A, so over the rating
MPPT 3 is the same scenario.

See PV spec of EG4 18k-PV:


1683086844743.png

@SignatureSolarJames @BenFromSignatureSolar Can you guys recommend some numbers for a panel config that meets 18kw PV, or if I messed up my math, can someone point out where?
 
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HighTechLab said:
I'm doing some quick shorthand math - normally for hyperVOC I multiply panel by 1.25 - there is a sliding scale but 1.25 covers 99% of locations...

So, 600v x 80% = 480VOC nominal max VOC - I'm going to use a Rich Solar 400w single-face panel, the ones I'm most likely to recommend a customer to:

View attachment 147642

So we find the largest string we can do is 9 panels for a VOC of 446.4v

MPPT 1 would then have two strings of 3600w = 7200w
MPPT 2 would have another 3600w
MPPT 3 would have another 3600w

Total is 14,400 watts.

Since Imp is 9.71A, we couldn't add another parallel string without exceeding the current limits:
With an extra string on MPPT1, we would be at 29.13A (and very strange to wire in). It would also need a combiner box with blocking diodes and per-string fusing because the short circuit current is over 30A
Two strings on MPPT2 would be 18A, so over the rating
MPPT 3 is the same scenario.

See PV spec of EG4 18k-PV:


View attachment 147643

@SignatureSolarJames @BenFromSignatureSolar Can you guys recommend some numbers for a panel config that meets 18kw PV, or if I messed up my math, can someone point out where?
Click to expand...
I can tell you that Fortress Power hit into this same issue.
 
I have used the SanTan (Trina) 250w panels a lot, so I can just run through those numbers really quick. They are just an average 60 cell panel.

VOC = 37.6v
ISC = 8.9a

12S2P makes 451v VOC and 17.8a ISC.

MPPT1 has a max ISC of 31a, so you cant use 2x 12S2P on it. But still:

MPPT1 = 12S2P at 6kw
MPPT2 = 12S2P at 6kw
MPPT3 = 12S2P at 6kw

Total 18kw connected.

Now these 60cell panels are old technology and nobody wants them anymore, so take it with a grain of salt.
 
Lt.Dan said:
I have used the SanTan (Trina) 250w panels a lot, so I can just run through those numbers really quick. They are just an average 60 cell panel.

VOC = 37.6v
ISC = 8.9a

12S2P makes 451v VOC and 17.8a ISC.

MPPT1 has a max ISC of 31a, so you cant use 2x 12S2P on it. But still:

MPPT1 = 12S2P at 6kw
MPPT2 = 12S2P at 6kw
MPPT3 = 12S2P at 6kw

Total 18kw connected.

Now these 60cell panels are old technology and nobody wants them anymore, so take it with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...
How about hyperVOC? What is the temperature coeffecient? I'd love to re-run the math a bit more in-depth, so if you have the full spec, that's a great example to base off.
 
which has UL9540 2020 and UL1741SB options on the market today as required in California and most of the USA grid-tied market next year,
Click to expand...
Is this just a matter of time to get it certified or is there something technical preventing it from ever getting that?
 
Solark remind me of your posh well to do friend who is a spoiled little brat, great fun to hang around with when everything is tickety boo but when the heat is on they turn into an arsehole.
They are clearly concerned and rightly so to a point, but I think these two units are going to end up in different markets. Most of their points seem nitpicky at best.
 
I have used solarks technical support three times so far, twice it has been superb and the third time no good.
First time was I realized the on/off switch was not lighting up and they sent me a brand new one even though I wasn't the original owner of the unit, turned out the original owner had been in there and put the plug onto the back of the switch the wrong way around so the LED wouldn't light up.
Second time was an error that it threw up and I could not find out why but they had a look at it and discovered it was a slight PV over voltage due to my panel configuration. I took one panel out of the string and she's been good since.
Third and ongoing issue is my clocks gaining time, they gave me a firmware update that did not change it. I am using it off grid 99% of the time and unfortunately it just runs a little fast, there could be a setting that needs to be understood, I need to work with them on it some more.

So yes you are paying a premium price for a premium product and support, that does have a great track record. Some people buy a BMW and some people buy a Ford.
 
It still remains to be seen how the 18k will do in real-world scenarios. While bench tests and device testing is nice and can be beneficial, nothing can take the place of using the system in the same environment that a majority of the user base will be using it in, by powering an entire home. When there's only 8 in the US right now, it's really hard to say how they'll perform over time.

While I don't have one, the Sol-Ark seems to have proven itself time and time again. It's just a solid system. Support seems to be top tier. I agree with @Quattrohead and his car comparison.

On paper the 18kpv looks promising, but only time will tell how it will truly perform.
 
Hello Everyone :)

in the current market there are old style panels using ~9amp M1 cells (like rich) there are M6 cells at 11amps being used (like Bluesun, Solarever and canadian solar) and there are M10 cells at 14 amps (like solarever 410, canadian solar 540 coming soon and Aptos 460)

so the 18k was designed with the shift in mind to m10 and M12 in the years ahead

If you have 9 amp panels then you are going to be fine with 3 strings on the 25 amp input or 2 strings on the 15 amp inputs (18vs 15 is 1.2 overpanelling ratio)

Solark’s concern touches my heart, had several of their 100 unit+ installers in our beta phase. we're really here for folks who can't afford them but want better than the 6500w level of quality. if you have $8300 and buy from them vs $5100 with our battery rebate from us it is good with me (maybe even buy EG4 batteries to go with it, that is really popular and makes a lot of Solark owners happy)
 
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There is a part of me that doesn't care what one competitor says of another. Of course they're gonna talk smack one way or another.

Sol-Ark didn't design their inverter, I really wish they wouldn't pretend that they did. My biggest peeve with them is they act all "USA USA" while using an existing Chinese inverter that they signed an exclusive deal with so that you can't get it through anyone but them, and charge extra for.

In full disclosure - I am not in the market for any of these inverters and have no products from any of these companies, so there is no personal gain for me in any of this stuff.
 
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