Solar house generator I started DIY back in 2000 - My path from Trace to Xantrex (on FLA battery) to XW Pro inverters on Tesla Model S batteries

[dougbert]

what is the firmware version that you are using?

and which versions do you have at this time?

Nevermind, I found your post https://diysolarforum.com/threads/adding-schneider-xw-pro.19090/post-552204 where you indicate v1.11.00

Can I get that from you?

cancel that, I found a dealer that has the v1.11.00 BD0028 and downloaded it


I have locally now:

v1.03.00 BD0003
v1.11.00 BD0028
v1.11.01 BD0049

In Release notes for 1.11.01 BD 0049, it lists the following history of firmware versions

Release 120-240V Firmware 01.11.01 Build 0049
Release 120-240V Firmware 01.11.00 Build 0028
Release 120-240V Firmware 01.09.00 Build 0009
Release 120-240V Firmware 01.06.00 Build 0386
Release 120-240V Firmware 01.04.00 Build 0353
Release 120-240V Firmware 01.03.00 Build 0003
Release 120-240V Firmware 01.02.00 Build 0005
Release 120-240V Firmware 01.01.00 Build 0233
Release 120-240V Firmware 01.00.00 Build 0020

with changes listed for each version

but references I find on the web, all point back to the current FIRMWARE DOWNLOAD page at SE, which has the latest, so hard to locate older firmwares.

Seems like something to collect - lol

 

[400bird]

I'm glad you both filled in the missing part of the firmware # I forgot and found a source to download it.

After that situation, I too, started saving any firmware vs the old habits of deleting the prior version.

 

[dougbert]

Reflashed the firmware to 1.11.00 BD0028

turned back on Grid Support and Sell to Grid (with 0 amps) settings, we'll see if we get any more of those 5kw Battery to Grid sell surges - hope not

 

[dougbert]

Looking at the Energy Comparison tab on InsightLocal, yesterday, when the sell surges occurred, 725wh went out to the grid - oh my!
today after doing what I described in the last post, 19watt-hrs have gone out to the grid so far today

I assume the inverter is doing some real-time protocol hand shaking. Will the utility notice such small "Sells"? or the larger one yesterday?

again, my Smart meter is not enabled for netmetering, just normal operation

 

[400bird]

I don't know your utility.
Most won't care about you "selling" less than a kWh. Because in reality, you probably paid them for that kWh as if you used it.

I highly doubt 19 watt hours for an entire day would be noticed. Did you purchase any power?
If not, you might want to try switching to peak shave and set it to the lowest number that isn't 0, play with that setting some. I'll bet you can get it so you buy a very small, nearly constant amount of power. Maybe 15 watts constant thought the day?

The biggest issue for the inverter is actively adjusting output to cover things like loads starting and stopping. It might be take a cycle or 3 for it to adjust when the refrigerator turns off. So you're pushing 100 watts out to the grid for 3/60th of a second? Larger numbers if a larger motor stops. Like the AC, to go from 4,000 watts down to my base load of 400 watts can't be instant.

More importantly, I think it sounds like rolling back the firmware did the trick for the random max grid sell spikes.

 

[dougbert]

For reference use for future readers (and myself)"

I re-found the following Schneider conference session on the XW Pro, namely Voltage Control and SoC Control.
These deal with Grid Support Voltage, Recharge Voltage and LBCO Voltage

it makes more sense this time around, after working with these settings.

Op-Ed: I think Schneider could add far more explainations on this important operations mode. This video segment on this is very short - or I am dense

 

[dougbert]

I want to thank @400bird for helping me understand the features of the Conext XW Pro which I failed to understand

In a prior post I mentioned that the XW Pro didn't have the same features as my older Xantrex SW+ inverter. Still true BUT it has similar features in an expanded manner

Like the Xantrex, the XW Pro continues to have the UPS mode of operation, which is to charge the battery, then turn off the inverter and power the loads by the Grid, basically Grid ByPass. The battery becomes a backup resource of power for when the grid goes off.

Using a new feature, that allows for Enable/Disable setting, called Grid Support, the unit can be toggled between UPS mode (Grid Support disabled) and expanded operations using the Grid when Grid Support is Enabled.

I will explain more in detail how and what those operations are in future posts

Again just wanted to express my thanks to him

 

[400bird]

Glad to help!
I hate that the settings in the XW are confusing, but I don't have any ideas how to type up two sentence explanation for the manual.

I can explain it over about 7 posts here ?

 

[dougbert]

Okay time to add more info

There is regular UPS mode as I mentioned, where when Grid is added, the battery is charged, then the system goes into Grid Pass Through or Bypass operation.

Control is performed by use of the InsightLocal web interface

On the Top Menu Bar: Select "Devices" and a list of devices on the Xanbus is presented.
Click on the Inverter device and a Status display for the inverter is presented.
Click on the next Menu Bar on "Configuration"

Enabled Advanced menu presentation

Look for and click on:

Grid Energy Management (Grid Support)​

The first setting is "Grid Support" toggle - Enabled/Disabled state

This must be enabled to allow operation of all the Grid features and operations

There are 3 sub-settings that are key for selecting various operations:

1. Grid Support Voltage (located in the Grid Energy Management subsection, here)
2. Recharge Voltage (located in the Charger Settings subsection)
3. Low Battery Cut Out (located in the Battery Settings subsection)

These 3 voltage setting and the current voltage of the battery, determines what happens, like grid bypass or inverting or battery charging or Load Shave Mode.


Here is the first instructions of Grid Support of the manual, page 78 (this manual has 233 pages and just 2-4 pages on this important topic):

XW Pro 6848 NA
Operation Guide
990-91227D-01
June 2022


Grid Energy Management (Grid Support) Settings

The Grid Energy Management (Grid Support) Settings menu contains configuration
options for grid-tie operation. To enable these settings, Grid Support must be enabled
in the Grid Energy Management (Grid Support) menu. Individual grid-interactive
features such as PLS and Sell are enabled individually.

In grid support mode, the XW Pro supports the utility grid by limiting the power drawn
from the utility to close to zero. This mode is desirable for using excess energy from
auxiliary DC sources like PV, while still maintaining a charged battery bank. No power is
sold to the utility in this mode.

NOTE: Grid support and sell functions are modes of operation that are subject to local
and/or national grid interconnection requirements in most jurisdictions. It is the
responsibility of the installer and system operator to ensure that all applicable procedures
and technical requirements are complied with before turning on either of these modes.
The interconnect codes and standards with which the XW Pro complies are listed in
Specifications on page 137.

NOTE: Upon startup, the XW Pro does not enable grid support functions for five minutes
(300 seconds). During this period the XW Pro connects to AC input and determines
whether the utility grid voltage and frequency are stable and within nominal range. If
Grid Support is enabled, the inverter information panel also displays a 300 second
countdown during this period. For more information, see "Islanding Protection" on
page 27.

NOTE: In grid support mode, the XW Pro should not draw a large amount of current from
the grid. If the XW Pro is drawing more than expected, it is important to note that it cannot
distinguish between real power and reactive power. Large current draw will only affect
reactive power and not real power, and utility companies generally only charge by real
power consumed.

Its a start

 

[dougbert]

The TWO things about Grid Support Voltage that I did NOT understand at first, is (1) that when the battery voltage is ABOVE Grid Support Voltage, then the battery is used via the inverter to support the loads.

and (2) when the battery voltage is BELOW Grid Support Voltage, then various Grid operations and features become operational.

(If I am wrong on certain things, please point them out and I will correct, thanks)

 

[400bird]

The TWO things about Grid Support Voltage that I did NOT understand at first, is (1) that when the battery voltage is ABOVE Grid Support Voltage, then the battery is used via the inverter to support the loads.

Agree

and (2) when the battery voltage is BELOW Grid Support Voltage, then various Grid operations and features become operational

Please explain, I'm not sure I'm following.
In my experience, below grid support voltage the inverter just goes into bypass.

 

[dougbert]

Agree

Please explain, I'm not sure I'm following.
In my experience, below grid support voltage the inverter just goes into bypass.

Bypass is one of those Grid operations I am referring to. Also including Peak Load Sharing operations.

I am intentionally going in short spurts of information for my own sanity.

The following picture from page 81 of the manual, shows some relationships between the 3 voltage settings



I am trying to find the reference I read about the following, but is shown in the diagram above:

If Load Shave is disabled and If Recharge Voltage and LBCO Voltage are the same, skipping ByPass (I believe for now) is possible as this will trigger the Charger to engage, without going through ByPass. Another Grid operation I am referring to.

I am unsure of what happens between Grid Support Voltage and Recharge Voltage (if different) in this use case, I will defer to your experience

 

[dougbert]

As we agree, the manual is not fully flushed out with good descriptions like other parts of the manual.
Very imprecise wording and no use case examples, so assumptions are made until empirical experimentation can be performed.

 

[dougbert]

Okay, I found what I was looking for.

It is in the training video I posted previously, at time 1424 to around 1492

 

[dougbert]

I have changed my mode of operation to keep battery as full as possible in case of grid failure.
I go to bypass at night, running loads from the grid, while battery sits awaiting
In the day time, I go back to Grid Support on, SELL mode, and this runs the house most of the day from solar, saving grid costs

generated 15kwh today, with sun and overcast moving through, 35F temp, 20s at night

BTW, the days are getting longer

 

[dougbert]

Updated my line diagrams for both AC and DC sides, reflecting the XW Pro inverter and the installation of AC EMPShield and 2 other Surge Protector Devices (SPD)


I moved the line diagrams to POST #1 so they are in just one place and update the when needed/necessary

so refer to post 1

 

[dougbert]

Details of the EMPShield installation

Parts and tools on table




I had previously taken a picture of this wall during siding installation - it was a mess and ugly. This is the updated wall - looks much better and better insulation is working greater

Service meter panel in near side of picture where the EMPShield will be connected
I did tape down the falling paper/information page




Main disconnect
The Neutral - Ground BOND location

I found the ground bar was at capacity. Found a bigger one and swapped it out so each wire had its own bond point





Existing Service Disconnect 125amp breaker on left, new 20 amp 2p on the right for the EMPShield
Yes, the right 20 amp breaker is not correct.
It is a Siemens box/bus
I have a Siemens 20amp 2P on order via ebay and will swap once it gets here
I had thought the panel was a square D

UPDATE: New siemens breaker arrived and is now installed. Pics are the old Square D breaker, now replaced




Installation completed, along with bigger ground bar



Both L1 and L2 status lights are on, and the EMPShield is on duty. I feel a bit better now.
Now need 2 Dual EMPShield DC units for my 4 arrays. They are connected prior to the Charge Controllers. I will be installing them on the PV Contactor box

 

[Jennifer]

What's all that white crap, you need to move to Arizona.

 

[dougbert]

What's all that white crap, you need to move to Arizona.

leftovers from 2ft of snow last week - makes for a good bond to ground

too many things that bite down there

 

[Jennifer]

makes for a good bond to ground

Yea except it's up on your roof.... LOL

 

[dougbert]

Yea except it's up on your roof.... LOL

that's the cousin berg

 

[Jennifer]

View attachment 128422

Installation completed, along with bigger ground bar

View attachment 128423

Your place is starting to look like some of the illegal marijuana grow operations we use to dismantle when I was with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police... .LOL

PS: I just bought 5 more Tesla modules this morning, I'm catching up to you.

 

[Jennifer]

well things went nicely....until they didn't

All day I was watching the system operate just fine, then at 4:44PM I got 5 massive SELL events to the grid, pushing 5kw of power, here is the battery display

View attachment 124570

Then zoomed in on that region

View attachment 124571

I don't like unexpected events like that.

My smart service meter is NOT programmed for netmetering, so I don't know what that will do, or report

the sun was down, and power was flowing from the battery to the grid on the Dashboard Power Flow, and the inverter was humming very loudly.
so I turned OFF Sell and Grid Support for now.

more research on this inverter operation

Wow, my life is so much easier not being grid tied/selling to the grid.... you two are making me appreciate it more and more.

 

[Jennifer]

shipping weight is 169 lbs

My RV park owner (where I was staying at the time) was NOT impressed when UPS showed up with my SW4048 and all the switch gear and dropped it at the office (I was at work). LOL

 

[Jennifer]

The JITB has no communications with the charge controllers. When the JITB detects an out of bounds issue, it can disconnect the batteries yes, but the CCs will continue to pump current with no batteries to send it to, not good for the CC

You hit an item that's been driving me crazy, how do we interface our JITB's to our systems, there's can and 485 but I've not seen anything about hooking it up to Schneider or Victron which is a disappointment as I run my system in Victron's DCC mode and BMS control would be nice. I'll have SOC and usage etc via the Victron shunt but that's it. It's the only thing missing from my system.