SRNE 12kW IP65 HES and 10kW ASP
- Thread starter 42OhmsPA
- Start date
The AC compressor starting current varies from start to start. I've been seeing values (as reported by the soft starter) from 33 amps to 50 amps (240V), or 8 kW to 12 kW. The blower consumes an additional kilowatt. At the time the inverter shutdown occurred, SOC was just about 50%. Last night I tried a few times more at even lower SOC (20%) and observed varying results. The first attempt resulted in inverter shutdown (same as before). On the second attempt, with only the compressor on inverter power and blower on utility power, the inverter successfully started the compressor (no overload, no bypass). On the third attempt, with both the compressor and the blower on the inverter again, the inverter started the compressor but entered into bypass mode (but no shutdown). It looks like with two batteries, the available 200 amps is borderline. I do plan to get more batteries and will try again then.
On the third attempt, the inverter briefly displayed fault 03 (but the fault disappeared after a few seconds). The inverter stayed in bypass mode and didn't automatically switch back to inverter output mode. But when I turned off the inverter's AC input breaker, the inverter immediately switched to inverter output mode. I then switched the AC input breaker on again, and the inverter remained in inverter output mode (normal operation).
Based on the above, my guess is that the BMS protection did occur but was only temporary. The inverter could have switched back to inverter output mode, but the inverter decided to stay in bypass mode until some charging current was present. This might be an intentional design choice but does seem like a bug to me.
Borick's response was that it's best to avoid overloading the inverter (which I agree, right now I'm pushing the unit to see what it can do). They also advised that menu items 61 and 62 should not be close in value and recommended that item 62 be set higher than 70% (don't start inverter output mode until SOC exceeds 70%). I told Borick that setting item 62 that high would negate significant energy savings (once PV generation starts in the morning, very soon it's sufficient to power my loads and also charge the battery full in a few hours; waiting for SOC to exceed 70% before switching to inverter output would needlessly consume a few extra hours of utility power).
That is darn good given the Srne 10kW spec advertises 6 hp motor….~4290watts 5 ton units pull a lot of power.
Think you mentioned … have 2 eg4 48v 100ah batteries.? Think you need example around 51vdc and around 195 amps to get at that less ~10kW mark.
This picture is sgp version manual
What size are your battery cables? 107mm2/ 4/0 awg?
Are they or anything else getting hot?
Thermal camera?
Any idea what the battery voltage is dropping to during these initial loads?
Sorry for all questions but am interested in this inverter. You are loading it down. Is the 5 ton only thing being powered?
Load testing is fun. Keep info flowing thanks.
Well, on the bright side at least it's confirmed that the BMS is switching the batteries off due to overcurrent....
One of my reasons for upgrading to LiFePo4 batteries and new inverted was that my old lead acids were getting very old and on more then one occasion when the fridge/freezer/ac kicked it together it would turn itself off on low voltage alarm and had to be manually reset... motors can be a big PITA for drawing too much current at startup (sometimes even with a softstart). Replacing the lead acid batteries was going to be the same cost as the new setup.
cs1234
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- May 9, 2022
- Messages
- 2,759
Wow, keep us posted. Are you planning on using it to backfeed with controlled or no export?
Very exciting!
Yes, I have the same questions!
BuffaloTrace
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2020
- Messages
- 461
SRNE SEI-12K-UP (8K,10k)
Interesting to see this inverter on the California/Arizona approved list of inverters.
Interesting to see this inverter on the California/Arizona approved list of inverters.
I'm using 2/0 AWG battery cables (sized for the 6000XP). Interestingly, the SRNE manual page looks the same, but recommends 1 AWG instead of 4/0 AWG. EG4 6000XP's manual also recommends 1 AWG. The 1 AWG recommendation does seem too small. It's possible that 4/0 AWG might make a difference.
When the overload shutdown occurred, battery voltage would have been 52.5 V (~50% SOC with about 1 kW of other loads) and 52.0 V (~20% SOC, no other loads). But I don't know how low the voltage might be sagged during the overload.
The AC (compressor plus blower) runs about 4 kW to 6 kW, depending on how hard the compressor has to work. The heaviest load I've run was the AC on a hot day close to 30 minutes while running about 2 kW other loads, total load sometimes over 8 kW (saw 4.3 kW and 3.8 kW on the two legs). I don't have a thermal camera. The area surrounding the inverter was warm, the battery cables felt cool (but they were delivering only about 4 kW). The cable to the transfer switch felt warm, but that's not an issue with the inverter. The inverter is able to handle the load; the batteries and maybe battery cable are borderline (if there's no PV power to assist).
Borick indicated that there's some logic issue in the software, causing the inverter to get stuck in bypass mode after fault shutdown. They indicated that to avoid the issue, setting 62 must be 50% or higher (too high for me). Possible workarounds to get back to inverter output mode seem to be initiating battery charging, flip AC input breaker off and on, or just do full shutdown (turn off AC/PV/battery inputs) and restart.
Unfortunately there was an occurrence of EVSE ground fault today, so the EVSE issue isn't fully resolved. The ground fault occurred when the car has completed the charging (unlike with 6000XP, where the fault occurs before charging starts or when the inverter switches to inverter output mode). This feels similar to the GFCI issue a few days ago (GFCI tripped when unplugging a device).
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
At times during the development of my own system, I noticed that having sufficient battery behind the inverters was the key to solving high in-rush load starting. The best operation for me came after the ESS was over 600A available battery output (six packs of 100A max output each) especially for starting large motors while at low-ish SOC.
Maybe this is part of the issue you're experiencing.
The cable sizes you mention seem too small, whether this is part of the problem or not I don't know, but short bits of big cable don't cost too much to change, may be worth trying up sizing them.
Maybe this is part of the issue you're experiencing.
The cable sizes you mention seem too small, whether this is part of the problem or not I don't know, but short bits of big cable don't cost too much to change, may be worth trying up sizing them.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
Yes, the benefits of a larger bank are lower voltage drop with large loads starting.
I did a recent video comparing the camper roof air vs the mini split I installed. When running with a larger load, the voltage drop was apparent on the shunt display. 26V with roof air running, mini split around 26.2V. I didn't check roof air starting voltage but I'm sure it was well below 26V.
I agree 100%.
Choke the available power with smaller battery size and smaller cable an inverter won't like it. The voltage will fall low enough either the BMS kicks out or the inverter senses low voltage and shuts down.
maybe why some vendors jumped price up to $2400 when talking to them other night.
That person only wanted to do volume of 10 at a time for price $2400.
Out of my league. Tapped out.
Staying up to 3am chatting with ppl on Alibaba getting better of me. Think they are sleeping when we are awake and vice versus. At around 2-3 am get fast response - follow ups on Alibaba. Tired.
Sgp
Combination of batteries and cables would make sure you are getting it to specs. Think 1awg is not up to task. They want you to use a 250amp breaker on battery. Look at other inverters for battery and cable sizing. But first ask Borick or maybe SRNE engineer. If they say 1awg get it in writing and ask for exact specific wire for all specs. That listed 4/0 is on SungoldPower website manual for this basic exact 10kw but blue colored inverter as shown in picture of previous post direct from that manual. The link to manual above. Btw the powmr is copy of your SRNE battery cable specs 1awg. You need to ask the for exact wire awg and cable specs.
The 8kW is 2awg from SRNE at ecoworth the 2awg is same for 5kW - Ecoworthy = is srne relabel. They totally blew that one and new ppl are running 7awg on their battery supply so expect to see them whining. Ignorance and screw up. These units need wire sized for loads and with dc power the loads vary then the wire/cable needs protection fuse breaker. You want the breaker undersized not the wire/cable.
These SRNE ASP-10kW units are rated surge 20kw So….. the Sol-Ark 8kw recommends battery cable 4/0. The Victron 5000 goes from 2/0 to 4/0 for recommendation. Most of these are welder type fine strand good copper cable….lot of ppl put battery cable in conduit - minor word caution they are rated free air. Conduit fill spacing is goofey too.
So basically what am saying here is SRNE screwed up.
.
I would guess the voltage drops in a surge - sag is problematic. This is representation of watching my own inverter voltage sagging under load didn’t bother to catch surge. The only way to really check batteries for health is voltage sag. On locomotives a shorted lead battery cell would read good all day. Had to apply external load - minimum 250mm size jumper cables to boost then check each battery for voltage sag when hitting the electric starter-load. In some cases negative shorted cell would show up. 24v nicad cell battery for say on helicopter had to be broken down and inspected. With the Lifepo I see this often - ppl think voltage reading doesn’t mean anything. That is not really correct. Loads cause voltage sags. Btw runner cells - I calm them by applying load on batteries while charging them. It works great. Charging batteries with no load is a different story. When batteries are subjected to surge loads the voltages sag. Things get hot. Why asked if you were doing thermal. Iphone had great app that used phone camera but the stopped them for some reason. A good thermal is ~$200 Highly recommend when load testing - stress testing. Btw with locomotives we use to hook them to resistor - grid blower banks to load test. Later we tied to locomotive grids onboard locomotives to test systems. The switch was called Load Test. We often used this feature to locate GROUNDS ….when locomotives kick ground relay faults it is tough to find and as locomotives aged ground faults become common problems. On locomotives everything except comm is float no chassis. Wyes are center tapped. The same will happen with EV as they age depending on EV ground detection fault system setup - design.
Battery cable length and diameter was proven to me at age 16 in real world. Relocated car battery from under hood to trunk over rear wheels get traction the relocation kit was supplied with cableS to small carry current - standard cable size. Family member EE PE at-the time told me to change just 1 cable up 2 sizes. Problem solved cranked no problems - stopped over heating starters. High compression engine. Aluminum jumper cables were way under size back then too. Literally melt at clamps. I watched youtube complaining about his inverter while testing - he had aluminum wires.
that video was taken down.Proper battery sizing is important. My small mpp solar recommends minimum of 200ah of batteries. I only have 100ah 48vdc right now so never stress tested it. Run my inverter around half loads like current gas generator recommendations. I think one of the SRNE 5 kw inverters recommends 200ah per inverter when in split phase. So it signals probable 400ah for 10kW inverters….
If OP wants me to remove this post just say so. This is why I stay in CHIT CHAT. I am not trying to degrade or spam or go off topic. Srne needs to get their battery cable sizing in check. Relabel versions and all. Several ppl don’t like me and that is fine too…. If SRNE doesn’t get it together than have setup their own product not to shine but to smoke.
Do you happen to know the size of the wires inside your batteries? From the batteries to the BMS, then to the battery post?
One of the problems with prepackaged batteries I've found is that it's imposible to know the size of the wires they used inside the sealed units (unless you want to void the warranty by cracking them open). Don't forget that this appies to the bus bars connecting the batteries as well.
Here is a pic or wire AWG and length to how much voltage drop you can expect at a certain amp draw:
As the chart shows, in essence the longer the wire the more voltage drop you get at higher currents.
1 AWG wire recommended by SRNE should be fine for most people, since most of us don't run the inverter at max power all the time.
Let's say as an example:
load: 52V at 150A, 5 foot , 1 AWG wire => 7,800 watts at 50.44 volts at the inverter and about 154.64 amps coming out of the battery to make up the difference in voltage drop (approximately) 3% drop
load: 52V at 150A, 30 foot , 1 AWG wire => 7,800 watts at 46.8 volts at the inverterand about 166.67 amps coming out of the battery to make up the difference in voltage drop (approximately) 10 % drop
***congratulations, your wire has now also become an 87 watt heater as well, approximately, lol***
If you draw more then 150 amps on above wire, then the voltage drop will increase slightly and the wire will get warmer (how much warmer will depend on the current), but will still work.
Now you are just loosing more power to heat instead of going into your load.
In my opinion, the shorter and bigger AWG the better when dealing with batteries.
Damn now I need a heat pump on all the wires and send it to my stove outside. Keep it hot while keeping it all cool
42OhmsPA
What's in a title?
There is indeed a typo in the HYP manual. They still have a disclaimer....maybe why some vendors jumped price up to $2400 when talking to them other night.
That person only wanted to do volume of 10 at a time for price $2400.
Out of my league. Tapped out.
Staying up to 3am chatting with ppl on Alibaba getting better of me. Think they are sleeping when we are awake and vice versus. At around 2-3 am get fast response - follow ups on Alibaba. Tired.
Sgp
Combination of batteries and cables would make sure you are getting it to specs. Think 1awg is not up to task. They want you to use a 250amp breaker on battery. Look at other inverters for battery and cable sizing. But first ask Borick or maybe SRNE engineer. If they say 1awg get it in writing and ask for exact specific wire for all specs. That listed 4/0 is on SungoldPower website manual for this basic exact 10kw but blue colored inverter as shown in picture of previous post direct from that manual. The link to manual above. Btw the powmr is copy of your SRNE battery cable specs 1awg. You need to ask the for exact wire awg and cable specs.
The 8kW is 2awg from SRNE at ecoworth the 2awg is same for 5kW - Ecoworthy = is srne relabel. They totally blew that one and new ppl are running 7awg on their battery supply so expect to see them whining. Ignorance and screw up. These units need wire sized for loads and with dc power the loads vary then the wire/cable needs protection fuse breaker. You want the breaker undersized not the wire/cable.
View attachment 223894
These SRNE ASP-10kW units are rated surge 20kw So….. the Sol-Ark 8kw recommends battery cable 4/0. The Victron 5000 goes from 2/0 to 4/0 for recommendation. Most of these are welder type fine strand good copper cable….lot of ppl put battery cable in conduit - minor word caution they are rated free air. Conduit fill spacing is goofey too.
So basically what am saying here is SRNE screwed up.
.
I would guess the voltage drops in a surge - sag is problematic. This is representation of watching my own inverter voltage sagging under load didn’t bother to catch surge. The only way to really check batteries for health is voltage sag. On locomotives a shorted lead battery cell would read good all day. Had to apply external load - minimum 250mm size jumper cables to boost then check each battery for voltage sag when hitting the electric starter-load. In some cases negative shorted cell would show up. 24v nicad cell battery for say on helicopter had to be broken down and inspected. With the Lifepo I see this often - ppl think voltage reading doesn’t mean anything. That is not really correct. Loads cause voltage sags. Btw runner cells - I calm them by applying load on batteries while charging them. It works great. Charging batteries with no load is a different story. When batteries are subjected to surge loads the voltages sag. Things get hot. Why asked if you were doing thermal. Iphone had great app that used phone camera but the stopped them for some reason. A good thermal is ~$200 Highly recommend when load testing - stress testing. Btw with locomotives we use to hook them to resistor - grid blower banks to load test. Later we tied to locomotive grids onboard locomotives to test systems. The switch was called Load Test. We often used this feature to locate GROUNDS ….when locomotives kick ground relay faults it is tough to find and as locomotives aged ground faults become common problems. On locomotives everything except comm is float no chassis. Wyes are center tapped. The same will happen with EV as they age depending on EV ground detection fault system setup - design.
Battery cable length and diameter was proven to me at age 16 in real world. Relocated car battery from under hood to trunk over rear wheels get traction the relocation kit was supplied with cableS to small carry current - standard cable size. Family member EE PE at-the time told me to change just 1 cable up 2 sizes. Problem solved cranked no problems - stopped over heating starters. High compression engine. Aluminum jumper cables were way under size back then too. Literally melt at clamps. I watched youtube complaining about his inverter while testing - he had aluminum wires.
Proper battery sizing is important. My small mpp solar recommends minimum of 200ah of batteries. I only have 100ah 48vdc right now so never stress tested it. Run my inverter around half loads like current gas generator recommendations. I think one of the SRNE 5 kw inverters recommends 200ah per inverter when in split phase. So it signals probable 400ah for 10kW inverters….
If OP wants me to remove this post just say so. This is why I stay in CHIT CHAT. I am not trying to degrade or spam or go off topic. Srne needs to get their battery cable sizing in check. Relabel versions and all. Several ppl don’t like me and that is fine too…. If SRNE doesn’t get it together than have setup their own product not to shine but to smoke.
Some wire charts are welding…not constant power loads then there are chassis loading charts to equipment charts to charts. Wire types why victron sticks to cross section which is a rule too. Fronius makes good inverter welders any inverter that can handle welding can probably make good power inverter but their prices are up there. They recommend large battery cables on model looked at. SRNE is offering a lot for the money. Documentation needs work. These inverter manuals have lot of variances from different brands.
Victron usually want biggest cables applied can get…their fuses are sized They want to guarantee best performance same with DEYES errr what looks like Sol-Ark. other brands too. Best to error on bigger is better….just make sure not go crazy The cable needs be sized biggest loads …fused breaker to protect wire/cable for ppl reading and following along.
Absolutely on setting things up per the way you use them too. The person has to have knowledge to do that. The ASP-8kw should have bigger battery cable then 5kw version. The 7awg battery cable for 5kw is way undersize. It won’t look good for SRNE. The 30mm2 is correct….typo but new ppl won’t know.
Called cya brother. We all make mistakes when working and even when posting. I was corrected on earlier post admitted moved on.
When dealing with DIY to which most never messed with electricity the maker of the product when going that market direction need to do their best to get it right. They have proof readers. Or are suppose to if not need to hire one that knows what they are reading called Techincal writing there use to be college level courses on it also included in engineering degree courses.
42OhmsPA
What's in a title?
I remember having to take that bloody course in Collage... tricky but corrent wording and phrasing.... don't use unnecessary nor ambiguous words.
Ahhh...those were the good ol days when you actually had to know something, not like nowadays, from the looks of it anyhow. And thus googlebabies were born, lol.
For those who may be interested in inverter settings, they are listed below.
Inverter: SRNE ASP48100U200-H, Software version: 8.17.12, wifi module is connected and setup.
Inverter settings that work for my setup (may be changed at a future date)...... heck, whom am I kidding, something will probably get tweeked within the next few days? hours?...only time will tell:
1 - SBU
2 - 60 Hz
3 - UPS
4 - 51.2 ---> RESETS to 48 MAX, can go lower but not higher then this, manual says max 52, can someone confirm on their unit?
5 - 54
6 - SNU
7 - 180
8 - USER
9 - 56.4
10 - 120
11 - 56.4
12 - 46.8
13 - 30
14 - 48.4
15 - 45.6
16 - dis
17 - 56.4
18 - 120
19 - 120
20 - 30
21 - dis
22 - dis
23 - ena
24 - ena
25 - ena
26 - ena
27 - ena
28 - 70
30 - 1
31 - SIG
32 - SLA
33 - WOW
34 - dis
35 - 48.8
37 - 55.2 -----> manual says max setting of 54... but it accepted my setting without problems... interesting...
38 - 120
40 - 00:00:00
41 - 00:00:00
42 - 00:00:00
43 - 00:00:00
44 - 00:00:00
45 - 00:00:00
46 - dis
47 - 00:00:00
48 - 00:00:00
48 - 00:00:00
50 - 00:00:00
51 - 00:00:00
52 - 00:00:00
53 - dis
54 - current time
55 - current date
57 - 2
63 - ena
68 - 180
end of settings.
Inverter: SRNE ASP48100U200-H, Software version: 8.17.12, wifi module is connected and setup.
Inverter settings that work for my setup (may be changed at a future date)...... heck, whom am I kidding, something will probably get tweeked within the next few days? hours?...only time will tell:
1 - SBU
2 - 60 Hz
3 - UPS
4 - 51.2 ---> RESETS to 48 MAX, can go lower but not higher then this, manual says max 52, can someone confirm on their unit?
5 - 54
6 - SNU
7 - 180
8 - USER
9 - 56.4
10 - 120
11 - 56.4
12 - 46.8
13 - 30
14 - 48.4
15 - 45.6
16 - dis
17 - 56.4
18 - 120
19 - 120
20 - 30
21 - dis
22 - dis
23 - ena
24 - ena
25 - ena
26 - ena
27 - ena
28 - 70
30 - 1
31 - SIG
32 - SLA
33 - WOW
34 - dis
35 - 48.8
37 - 55.2 -----> manual says max setting of 54... but it accepted my setting without problems... interesting...
38 - 120
40 - 00:00:00
41 - 00:00:00
42 - 00:00:00
43 - 00:00:00
44 - 00:00:00
45 - 00:00:00
46 - dis
47 - 00:00:00
48 - 00:00:00
48 - 00:00:00
50 - 00:00:00
51 - 00:00:00
52 - 00:00:00
53 - dis
54 - current time
55 - current date
57 - 2
63 - ena
68 - 180
end of settings.
cs1234
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- May 9, 2022
- Messages
- 2,759
Maybe not outdated, but a lost art.
Just like common sense.... gone but not forgotten and more of a super power then anything else.