The biggest solar-plus-storage project in the US just came online.

[Checkthisout]

I was hoping that when contract for water from Phoenix expired in 2000, LA would dry up and blow away.
Instead, the built a canal and stole the water which should flow into the SF Bay and also supply us with water.
Surely that must be bad for the ecosystem, natural fish hatcheries, etc.

I propose to put up PV panels where LA once stood.
And reduce the population to only citizens and lawful permanent residents, who can make their way along the service roads between the panels.

Post apocalytic SanTan solar selling cracked backsheet snail trailed panels out of the back of Tesla p100d's with service bodies powered by lead acid batteries.

 

[Checkthisout]

Palo Verde ships power all over the west coast.

All over is pretty broad in scope?

I think California consumes quite a bit more than it produces meaning its a net importer.

Maybe prove the solar concept by at least powering one of the sunniest states with it first?

 

[fromport]

All over is pretty broad in scope?

I think California consumes quite a bit more than it produces meaning its a net importer.

Maybe prove the solar concept by at least powering one of the sunniest states with it first?

Energy in California is a major area of the economy of California.
California is the state with the largest population and the largest economy in the United States.
It is second in energy consumption after Texas.
As of 2018, per capita consumption was the fourth-lowest in the United States partially because of the mild climate and energy efficiency programs.

As of 2021, 30.1% of electricity was imported (11.7% from Northwest and 18.4% from Southwest) out of which 22.6% was of unspecified origin and 30.9% were renewables.

Coal
The 1,900 MW Intermountain Power Plant in Delta, Utah is operated by the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power. Power is transmitted to California via Path 27.
Imported coal-fired electricity is expected to decline as power agreements expire and the city of Los Angeles phases out its use of such electricity by 2025

The 1,540 MW Four Corners Generating Station in San Juan County, New Mexico is 19.2% owned by Southern California Edison.

source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_California

 

[Tulex]

Not in winter.

I don't think they take them down in the winter.

 

[ksmithaz1]

So guys, where are these solar farms going to go?

You going to put them all in Arizona and then drive the batteries to the northeast?

A solar farm of a given size in SoCal is going to produce a lot more energy than one located in Maine.

Palo Verde ships power all over the west coast.

This thread . . .

All over is pretty broad in scope?

I think California consumes quite a bit more than it produces meaning its a net importer.

Maybe prove the solar concept by at least powering one of the sunniest states with it first?

All over as in the electric grid runs all over the western US and energy from the Palo Verde station is likely to go anywhere on that grid. You asked where the solar farms are going to go, well we are already shipping electricity from here in Arizona, to a big chunk of the nation, as part of the grid fed by the Boulder Dam and other large scale projects. I'm thinking you could get happy in Texas and drive loads up through the middle. North East is a little more problematic, but I'm sure we can find some suitable real estate in smaller chunks that we can keep 1/3-1/2 of the sites in sun most of the time.

Lot's of Big Sky country up to the north actually gets more moderate precipitation and clouds. I saw a couple of solar farms in Boise when I was up there last year. It's coming.

 

[Checkthisout]

This thread . . .



All over as in the electric grid runs all over the western US and energy from the Palo Verde station is likely to go anywhere on that grid. You asked where the solar farms are going to go, well we are already shipping electricity from here in Arizona, to a big chunk of the nation, as part of the grid fed by the Boulder Dam and other large scale projects. I'm thinking you could get happy in Texas and drive loads up through the middle. North East is a little more problematic, but I'm sure we can find some suitable real estate in smaller chunks that we can keep 1/3-1/2 of the sites in sun most of the time.

Lot's of Big Sky country up to the north actually gets more moderate precipitation and clouds. I saw a couple of solar farms in Boise when I was up there last year. It's coming.

They consume more than they produce so yes, California has power tentacles that it uses to take power from other states leaving them living like the Amish.

 

[houseofancients]

They list the project area as 4600 acres = 7.16 sq.miles
I recall a few talks, where it was stated " a solar area 100miles x 100miles (10,000 sqmiles) would collect all the energy needed by the whole country.
10,000 sqmiles / 7.2 = 1/1389th (0.07% )
we just need 1389 more solar farms this size. {and just need to build 53 of these per year for 26 years...}

Put another way, this solar installation has 1.9 million PV panels, and to build out 1389 more installations of this scale would need a total of 26.4 billion PV panels. (worldwide PV production is about 1 billion panels per year) it would take at current production rates, 26 years to build just the PV panels needed for the USA, alone. If USA energy use is 16% of the world total, then 6x the 26.4 billion PV panels are needed worldwide. About 162 years of 2023 rate of PV panel production.

Put another way, the Installation was quoted to cost $1.7 Billion (including the large ESS and PV)
to build 1389 more of these, at the same cost is about $2.3 Trillion. 10% of the USA annual GDP - spread over the 26 years it would take to produce the PV panels (at current world production rates) this would amount to 90 billion per year. Yes, costs would change over a 26 year period, costs would also scale if 53 installations this size were built per year, every year, for the next 26 years. In 26 years we would be due to change out the PV from the first built installations with new panels.

The 162 years of (2023) production to build out the energy needs of the entire world would cost in the order of 14.5 Trillion, or 14% of the world Annual GDP, ie spread over 162 years, the cost is about 1% of world GDP per year.

Lovely calculation..
1.7 b is still cheaper than the av nuclear reactor, and this will need no additional investments/ inputs, nor any 100.000 radioactive waste for the next 30 years where as a nuke does...

 

[Checkthisout]

Lovely calculation..
1.7 b is still cheaper than the av nuclear reactor, and this will need no additional investments/ inputs, nor any 100.000 radioactive waste for the next 30 years where as a nuke does...

Yes but the nuke works at night

 

[houseofancients]

Yes but the nuke works at night

This will too..
That is where that huge battery bank comes in....
Same as what most of us are doing small scale for our homes

 

[OffGridForGood]

I wonder about the cost of building out $2.3Trillion worth of solar,
and compare to elevated storm damage...over the next 26 years.

 

[Danke]

Lovely calculation..
1.7 b is still cheaper than the av nuclear reactor, and this will need no additional investments/ inputs, nor any 100.000 radioactive waste for the next 30 years where as a nuke does...

Technology has changed in modern nuclear generation. In fact, most of the ”spent” rods currently in the storage pools right now can be used for generation of electricity.

 

[timselectric]

Technology has changed in modern nuclear generation. In fact, most of the ”spent” rods currently in the storage pools right now can be used for generation of electricity.

The gift that keeps on giving.

 

[Checkthisout]

This will too..
That is where that huge battery bank comes in....
Same as what most of us are doing small scale for our homes

Yikes. So now you have to generate the entire day's demand in 6-12 hours.

Even nukes don't do that.

 

[houseofancients]

Yikes. So now you have to generate the entire day's demand in 6-12 hours.

Even nukes don't do that.

I assume these batteries do get charged from the grid when there is an excess..
In ca all new homes need to have solar, therefor a huge duckcurve will exist.

How come you are so overly negative here ?
Works exactly the same as for your home, just at a much much larger scale

 

[Checkthisout]

I assume these batteries do get charged from the grid when there is an excess..
In ca all new homes need to have solar, therefor a huge duckcurve will exist.

How come you are so overly negative here ?
Works exactly the same as for your home, just at a much much larger scale

Solar doesn't work well in Northern climates, especially in winter with winter weather and cloudy days, snow and day length.

I'm skeptical of the gung-ho ness at installing it at grid level over huge swaths of land and using massive disposable battery banks.

If California cannot meet its own current demand via solar then nowhere can.

 

[Mattb4]

All this stealing of the sun's warmth to generate electricity is going to create Solar Winter. LA will be covered by an ice sheet a mile high. Penguins will become a common sight in Texas. Polar bears will feast on seals as far South as DC.

On the plus side though prices for solar panels will be practically nothing. Too bad all the copper was used up in the making of all the solar farms and you now have to use steel wire for your PV project.

 

[Danke]

All this stealing of the sun's warmth to generate electricity is going to create Solar Winter. LA will be covered by an ice sheet a mile high. Penguins will become a common sight in Texas. Polar bears will feast on seals as far South as DC.

Have you notified Al Gore of this?

On the plus side though prices for solar panels will be practically nothing. Too bad all the copper was used up in the making of all the solar farms and you now have to use steel wire for your PV project.

I don’t see a plus side. There won’t be any sunshine leftover to power the rest of our solar panels.

 

[Brett V]

A lot of money transferred from people who are already poor to people who are already rich. All based on a climate change hoax.

 

[fromport]

I assume these batteries do get charged from the grid when there is an excess..
In ca all new homes need to have solar, therefor a huge duckcurve will exist.

How come you are so overly negative here ?
Works exactly the same as for your home, just at a much much larger scale

The California "grid" used to pay other states to _take_ their excessive energy during peak times.
With battery solutions like this you can start charging the batteries instead.
win-win

 

[OffGridForGood]

SouthWest USA seems well suited to extensive solar buildout - peak daily solar = peak dail A/C loads generally (yes?)
Winter = less solar AND less A/C loads.
It would be interesting to see solar-PV shade structures for automotive parking lots, and the solar can charge the EV's while they are parked; drivers are Working/Shopping/doing things.

Other areas need other solutions to daily solar collection/night power uses/cloudy weather.
Solar and pumped hydroelectric seems like a good pairing - West Virginia ?