OPTIMALSOLAR
New Member
1. If using an installer it was my experience the salespeople know virtually nothing about photovoltaic science. They are script trained to overcome objections like 1950's tinmen. Most of the training involves financing. I'll get to that. Best practice is to do enough research to design the project as every installer I spoke to way and I mean way oversold panel area. I had one that suggested 72 panels. 20-25 was clearly optimal for roi. Price per watt should end up between 2 and 2.50 a watt. I had some quotes as hi as 6. Sun power now makes nothing. Yet they claimed they made everything. No such company in the industry. Blue raven, another highly reviewed installer, like elevation standardized on enphase iq8 pluses(300 watt ability) tied to 400 watt panel for 4 bucks a watt. Horrible, at least in Texas. Design own or pay too much.
2. Financing. Avoid if possible. Second mortgage or refi a way better option if can't pay cash. Never finance thru installer. Why? Installers don't finance. Bankers do. No banker wants to loan for panels as they are unreclaimable thus unsecured. Hence, they ad dealer fee or some other name to get their money before installation to reduce their risk. Translation a 20k system becomes 26 to 28k financed, and then they buy down the rate which makes it worse for the customer if they ever have the cash to buy out. Looks better is worse. Buying down the rate is always bad for the customer. ALWAYS, and is standard industry practice. And those offers to write you a check if you go solar, while true they will, you are just borrowing more unsecured debt which translates to a 2500 check costing you 10k over term of loan. Don't fall for that.
3. Inversion. Enphase is the star of solar. That said, they have little control over how installers sell their micros. Installers seem uninterested in getting the most production for the least cost to you, hence the buy older technology micros at a discount from enphase in huge quantities(1q7plus/1q8 plus) to lower their cost and hope their customers are as ignorant of solar clipping(aka panel waste), as their salesforce is. Shading issue is way over sold. The main advantage Micros have vs. string inverters is uptime, not shade production maximization.
How to fix the clipping issue with Enphase? Make sure installer doesn't clip more than 10%. 0 is better. That means if 400 watt panels enphase iq7a or greater production. Do not use Iq7 iq7plus, iq7x with 400 watt panels. Same in the Iq8 series which I'd avoid as they cost considerably more than 7 series and only give you sunny, grid down, ability. Not an often needed function for the money.
4. Panels- If you go with any of the top 8 or so best panel producers you'll be fine with any of them. Maxim likely are best, but way over priced. Rec are as good or very near for way less. Silfab, Qcell, Canadian solar, are the best value. Panasonic and LG have stopped producing but if you can find they are both premium brands, like Rec. I went qcell.
How many is right amount? Every home sight is different but, ignore every solar advertisement no matter how hot the girl is, or how bald the guy is. Do not try to match production to capacity. Why? In Texas you get about 8-10cents less for what you send to electricity provider than what you pay electricity provider, no matter your electric provider. So during day, when sunny, you'll over produce and the production will go back to grid. You'll get a credit of X and then be charged xplus about 10cents per kw. In my case I get about 3 cents a kw and they charge 12 cents that night or not sunny day. Meaning 50-70% grid supplied reduction is optimal for return on investment. Above is a waste of money unless you want to contribute to your electricity provider and help the green movement, but a financial mistake.
Every installer, I had 6 of the highest reviewed come by, proposed electricity production based off a Google maps pic of my roof, and a tool they use. Every estimate was hi by 10 to 25 %. They all then calculated 30 yr savings by multiplying over estimated production by my cost per kw which assumes a kw for kw value for electricity I supply to grid. In reality over production gets between 20 and 40 % of retail price depending on plan and supplier. Plus they assume increasing cost of electricity in way bloated savings estimates.
5. Batteries-While purely on their own they may never be a good purchase as to savings, but they carry the function of uptime in light or dark that no panel solutions does. That came in handy last night when we were down for 6 hours. The ac kept us cool and TV's/computer ran as normal. Attached to a good duel hose ac unit( Whynter arc 14000 is my choice) they become pretty good as to investment as they can reduce and at times eliminate need for whole house hvac. Hvac is by far the the biggest electrical user in our home in Texas.
My project cost was about 33k. 12 kw panels, 15.2 kw solar generators, and my average electric bill has dropped from 390/mo to 90/mo and this was the hottest summer in 12 years. Brutal. No bill got close to 200. Next month will be about 40. I love solar. The industry that sells it? Not so much. Be careful out there. Utube has so much info. Guys like our hero Will(Even though he does look a bit like Pete Buttigieg, SORRY WILL) and another guy name Julian Todd-Borden were instrumental for me. Thanks Will.
Hope this helps those thinking about making the investment. I'm thrilled with mine, but had I gone Blue raven, or Sunpower, the 2 highest reviewed as of last year,(btw they are the same company Sun Power bought them a couple years ago), I'd be far less happy, and my Roi would take 10 years or more longer to break even.
2. Financing. Avoid if possible. Second mortgage or refi a way better option if can't pay cash. Never finance thru installer. Why? Installers don't finance. Bankers do. No banker wants to loan for panels as they are unreclaimable thus unsecured. Hence, they ad dealer fee or some other name to get their money before installation to reduce their risk. Translation a 20k system becomes 26 to 28k financed, and then they buy down the rate which makes it worse for the customer if they ever have the cash to buy out. Looks better is worse. Buying down the rate is always bad for the customer. ALWAYS, and is standard industry practice. And those offers to write you a check if you go solar, while true they will, you are just borrowing more unsecured debt which translates to a 2500 check costing you 10k over term of loan. Don't fall for that.
3. Inversion. Enphase is the star of solar. That said, they have little control over how installers sell their micros. Installers seem uninterested in getting the most production for the least cost to you, hence the buy older technology micros at a discount from enphase in huge quantities(1q7plus/1q8 plus) to lower their cost and hope their customers are as ignorant of solar clipping(aka panel waste), as their salesforce is. Shading issue is way over sold. The main advantage Micros have vs. string inverters is uptime, not shade production maximization.
How to fix the clipping issue with Enphase? Make sure installer doesn't clip more than 10%. 0 is better. That means if 400 watt panels enphase iq7a or greater production. Do not use Iq7 iq7plus, iq7x with 400 watt panels. Same in the Iq8 series which I'd avoid as they cost considerably more than 7 series and only give you sunny, grid down, ability. Not an often needed function for the money.
4. Panels- If you go with any of the top 8 or so best panel producers you'll be fine with any of them. Maxim likely are best, but way over priced. Rec are as good or very near for way less. Silfab, Qcell, Canadian solar, are the best value. Panasonic and LG have stopped producing but if you can find they are both premium brands, like Rec. I went qcell.
How many is right amount? Every home sight is different but, ignore every solar advertisement no matter how hot the girl is, or how bald the guy is. Do not try to match production to capacity. Why? In Texas you get about 8-10cents less for what you send to electricity provider than what you pay electricity provider, no matter your electric provider. So during day, when sunny, you'll over produce and the production will go back to grid. You'll get a credit of X and then be charged xplus about 10cents per kw. In my case I get about 3 cents a kw and they charge 12 cents that night or not sunny day. Meaning 50-70% grid supplied reduction is optimal for return on investment. Above is a waste of money unless you want to contribute to your electricity provider and help the green movement, but a financial mistake.
Every installer, I had 6 of the highest reviewed come by, proposed electricity production based off a Google maps pic of my roof, and a tool they use. Every estimate was hi by 10 to 25 %. They all then calculated 30 yr savings by multiplying over estimated production by my cost per kw which assumes a kw for kw value for electricity I supply to grid. In reality over production gets between 20 and 40 % of retail price depending on plan and supplier. Plus they assume increasing cost of electricity in way bloated savings estimates.
5. Batteries-While purely on their own they may never be a good purchase as to savings, but they carry the function of uptime in light or dark that no panel solutions does. That came in handy last night when we were down for 6 hours. The ac kept us cool and TV's/computer ran as normal. Attached to a good duel hose ac unit( Whynter arc 14000 is my choice) they become pretty good as to investment as they can reduce and at times eliminate need for whole house hvac. Hvac is by far the the biggest electrical user in our home in Texas.
My project cost was about 33k. 12 kw panels, 15.2 kw solar generators, and my average electric bill has dropped from 390/mo to 90/mo and this was the hottest summer in 12 years. Brutal. No bill got close to 200. Next month will be about 40. I love solar. The industry that sells it? Not so much. Be careful out there. Utube has so much info. Guys like our hero Will(Even though he does look a bit like Pete Buttigieg, SORRY WILL) and another guy name Julian Todd-Borden were instrumental for me. Thanks Will.
Hope this helps those thinking about making the investment. I'm thrilled with mine, but had I gone Blue raven, or Sunpower, the 2 highest reviewed as of last year,(btw they are the same company Sun Power bought them a couple years ago), I'd be far less happy, and my Roi would take 10 years or more longer to break even.
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