diy solar

diy solar

The shocking cost of Electricity

Then again, we have to pay 125euro per kw per year that our solar inverter is able to deliver to the grid (regardless if you actually have enough solar panels to fill your inverters capacity)

Wow, so if I have 5kW array with 5kW inverter, I would have to pay 600 euros per year?
Calculation for Brussels for 5kW array is around 4,000kWh produced in a year.
In my place, I pay around 600 euros for 4,000kWh in higher tariff. In Belgium it is ~30 cents per kWh, so around 1200 euros for 4000kWh, but still that just kills benefit of using solar.
 
Wow, so if I have 5kW array with 5kW inverter, I would have to pay 600 euros per year?
Calculation for Brussels for 5kW array is around 4,000kWh produced in a year.
In my place, I pay around 600 euros for 4,000kWh in higher tariff. In Belgium it is ~30 cents per kWh, so around 1200 euros for 4000kWh, but still that just kills benefit of using solar.
Apparently i noted some wrong numbers, the price varies per region and its per kva instead of kw, anywhere from 80€/kva to 113€/kva
So the total price is lower than i initially claimed, but it's still a bitter pill to swallow
 
In MD they attempted to tax the rain. If you put in driveways or structures that prevented rain from reaching the ground, they wanted to tax the sq footage. Really. It was voted down.

Wow. Even here gardeners everywhere have rainwater capture systems. I helped a guy build one and they are quite interesting.
 
...we have to pay 125euro per kw per year that our solar inverter is able to deliver to the grid...

There will probably be even more, um, innovative (?) laws coming to all solar owners.

Here's the cycle...

The more people go to solar the less power they buy.
The utility makes less for the investors
The government taxes what you buy, so less money for them.
Not everyone can afford the startup cost for solar, so Utilities can't be allowed to fail

So who should subsidize it? My bet is politicians will go for solar owners since they can obviously afford it. Not logical, but when looking for who to tax the minority share is always put up against the wall first.

We need a watchdog group that monitors politicians and anyone that has the brainstorm of taxing the sun needs to have a good wake up call.
 
The town I used to live in in Massachusetts had insanely high electric rates. The base electric rate was 14.3cents per Kw/h, but then they added a 10 to 13 cent per Kw/h service charge on top of that (was higher in winter), so the total charge was 24.3 to 27.3 cents per Kw/h.
Check the R1 rate:
Well, that's one way to incentivize solar.

Sadly, if everyone switched over the utility/government would still have to pay for all the hardware the hikes were for - so they'd just have to find some new way to tax you. They should have just taxed everyone and given them free solar. At 27 cents/kWh it would have been paid for in a five or 6 years and the tax eliminated.
 
In NC, we are charged for the water runoff of the size of our lot. So we get charged for the rain that falls that isn’t captured by a bog or collection system.
All business have huge ponds to capture parking lot runoff to lower this fee...
 
Well, that's one way to incentivize solar.

Sadly, if everyone switched over the utility/government would still have to pay for all the hardware the hikes were for - so they'd just have to find some new way to tax you. They should have just taxed everyone and given them free solar. At 27 cents/kWh it would have been paid for in a five or 6 years and the tax eliminated.
Actually, the town I live in now has one of the highest installed solar capacity per resident in the country...enough that it screws up the overall grid loading vs time of day from the duck curve...so they put a moratorium on new solar installs. They just recently got a 2 megawatt grid connected battery in a shipping container to help with that, so they are now allowing limited solar installs again.

 
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They just recently got a 2 megawatt grid connected battery in a shipping container
Whaaaaattttttt??? It's New England...

✅ water
✅ hills

Why didn't they go for pump storage? 95% of all energy storage works that way and for a great reason - it works, it's cheap/mw, it lasts forever, it makes new areas to fish/boat. Not efficient for home owners, but great stuff when you get to that sort of storage.
 
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Up front capital expense. So many things these days are done on short term budgets. Capex is pushed to opex where ever possible.
 
The whole thing angers me because greed is allowed by sheer financial power to choke innovation that could possibly change the quality of life as we know it for billions and this cycle of insanity has been going on for centuries aided and abetted by a complacent populace who for cheap shiny trinkets sell their voices. Convenience, a fancy word for lazy, is our Achilles heel. I know it's supposed to be a joke and sorry to be a sour apple.
 
Hey Cajunwolf! Moved your post over here, figured people going to the joke board would be looking for a pick-me-up and your post was too serious for that!

The whole thing angers me because greed is allowed ... choke innovation that could possibly change the quality of life as we know it for billions a...

You anger is understandable, but I believe the focus is off. If properly focused we could make some changes!

So I ask you... What would you do differently if you were the president?

Here's why I think the focus is off...

> choke innovation that could possibly change the quality of life
It's really tough for a new industry to get a foot hold. In order for that technology to emerge and successfully compete someone has to foot the bill as products and supply chains emerge. A lot of countries (U.S., Australia) have done something to help - they've spent billions promoting research, assisting companies, offering incentives, etc. And Solar has finally made it over the hump, solar is cheaper than the grid! Bill Gates just went on record saying it's time to pull solar subsidies.

So my point here is that big government isn't trying to choke innovation; it's been actively trying to promote it. In '79, Jimmy Carter (a president with an actual science degree and naval experience with nuclear reactors) put solar panels on the white house. So, while big oil might not like it and tell you how dangerous the sun's cancer causing rays are, government by and large is trying to change the quality of life for the better.

Politicians are pulled in a thousand different different directions, everyone always thinks their problem is the biggest. There are two sides to every story, so every case has conflicting facts. So, in many cases government creates more government to try and straighten out the mess; typically they do this for things that are too important to mess around with (e.g., dept. of Agriculture, dept of Energy). Those places are full of people that are nice people working hard to make the best choices. Are GMOs really safe? Like I said, they do the best they can with what they know and setup research programs for what they don't and it's why policies change over time.

That said, politicians need to stay in office to fight the fights they want to fight. So, it's often expedient for them to cave to the whims of their voters. You have the agencies saying they're understaffed and can't accurately respond to all the demands on them. You have constituents saying government is to big, costs to much, and tries to control to much. You have industries that if left unchecked will destroy that industry (e.g., banking collapse of '08).

> greed is allowed
Well, let me illustrate this with a joke a friend sent me:
Limit all US politicians to two terms.​
One in office​
One in prison​
Illinois already does this, and it seems to be working for them.​
The point is, greed isn't allowed. Sure it happens, but when it does in countries like the U.S. there are checks and balances at play.

Taxes are a great thing. They pay for roads, provide the capitol to bankroll utilities, keep the country militarily safe, subsidize the mail system, provide relief in disasters, help foster new innovations, pay for fire-fighters, yada yada yada.

If you're taxed on the power you use; then the government loses that revenue when citizens switch to solar. They have to make up that short fall to pay for the programs in place and the natural place to get it is from where they lost it. So, the Belgium law taxing inverters isn't as far out as it seems.

Solar taxes are only going to get worse
As an example, gasoline in the U.S. has a "road-tax", that is when you buy gas you're taxed on it and that tax goes to pay for roads. As cars go electric, they're still using the road but not paying their fair share of the taxes. So a lot of places are looking into ways to tax this.

Solar will only get worse, but that's primarily because solar power citizens are currently getting a free ride. That's not a bad thing, it's just an unadvertised way to incentivize the new technology.

If utilities can't be allowed to fail, how will they make up the shortfall as more people switch to solar?

Come up with good solutions to all the problems and you'll get my vote in the 2020 elections!
 
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@svetz
Thanks, and sorry about that, I didn't mean for that to happen, but sometimes a thought gets in my head, and I've got to let it out. Oh heck yeah, I'm reading your post at the moment and will through in some of my thoughts and concerns where we can sift through it all. It's we the sheeple who are supposed to be running this dog and pony show, and not big money and their lobby, right?
 
From an ABC article it's easy to see how the the price of power in Australia started spinning out of control in 2007:
Actually getting to the truth can be pretty hard unless you have looked closely ...as with a lot of people trying to get money out of your pocket.

The Commonwealth Govt brought in GST here in 2000 . It was promised that all that would go to the State Govts in return for them stopping their Land tax /Stamp duty etc revenue collections ,which they did.

So move on and the Cwth Govt with control of the dough says . . you will do this or you won't get the money and fiddles and now the States don't get what was promised. They have no income so they look at what they control in each state and start raising funds again.

Up go Police fines ,Water charges ,Rates ,LPG ,Petrol taxes and Electricity.
There be the main reason ,the rest is trying to hide the facts.
Its got nowhere to go but up.
Ergon is a North Queensland Supplier
 
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... and will through in some of my thoughts and concerns where we can sift through it all...
That's the spirit! I'm sure ready to vote cajun in 2018! Let's spice it up! An A2-fay in every pot!
 
I recently found Jack Rickard on youtube. He has had some set of adventures for the past 20 years

In this youtube he uploaded he talks about how PGE in calif can throttle back those grid-tied solar systems by adjusting the line frequency from 60 hz to 61.2 hz. This feature was mandated by calif legislature and made into law feb 2019. This prevents too much solar being pushed into the grid when so many solar homes are producing.]
Jack is pushing products to have batteries in the home and to only use the grid for battery charging on cloudy days

Now jack makes long videos, but has some good content. Suggest you watch at 1.25 speed in order to help him talk faster

jack rickard
 
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@dougbert
Thanks, I'll give it a watch. I have friends in California desperately trying to get out, one in Bakersfield, how he lives there I don't know, one near LA, and the other up in Weaverville. The lady friend in Weaverville says on a good morning you can smell the marijuana growing, and those "farmers" use a lot of solar up on the hilltops. PG&E has all the money in the world to lobby and donate to political campaigns of those who will push laws favorable to PG&E, and we all know how much politicians like money.
 
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