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Top Balancing "How to"

Bottom balancing is rarely done.

You can capacity test the cells to see how well they stay together at the end of your discharge cycle, but almost everyone sets their BMS to balance on charge, not discharge.
im considering just bottom balancing, as I understand you can get away with no BMS that way.
the batteries will rarely be used, is going w/o a bms really that bad an idea?
 
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im considering just bottom balancing, as I understand you can get away with no BMS that way.
the batteries will rarely be used, is going w/o a bms really that bad an idea?
A very bad bit of information that, you will ruin your cells with no BMS. Top or bottom balanced, you need a BMS.

Bottom balanced is usual for vehicles, and you will notice they all have a BMS.
 
I see. well ok then Ill have to get a BMS then, will start shopping for a 32channel one, either that or two 16ch ones.
 
I see. well ok then Ill have to get a BMS then, will start shopping for a 32channel one, either that or two 16ch ones.
Its a "bad idea"TM to put 2 BMSs in series.
Just to be clear are you making a 32s 102.4VDC nominal lifepo4 battery, confirm?
 
Is it time to have an intervention on discouraging a newbie from working with such a high voltage
battery bank?
I sincerely appreciate you guy's concern, thats actually pretty great that sentiment is here. im just a newb on this solar side though - Ive worked HV AC and DC (USAF flightline comm/nav tech), they gave me great training, and a great career :)
 
Either one 16 channel or two 16 channels.
One would be for a 2p16s battery. Two would be for 16s2p, which you might do for double the current handling or redundancy.
Some people let the BMS control a higher current contactor, if current draw could exceed what the BMS could handle (but I'm not sure how current measurement with a shunt figures in then.)

Your BMS selection might also be narrowed to those models which communicate with the inverter you want. That isn't mandatory, but could make a better system.
 
Either one 16 channel or two 16 channels.
One would be for a 2p16s battery. Two would be for 16s2p, which you might do for double the current handling or redundancy.
Some people let the BMS control a higher current contactor, if current draw could exceed what the BMS could handle (but I'm not sure how current measurement with a shunt figures in then.)

Your BMS selection might also be narrowed to those models which communicate with the inverter you want. That isn't mandatory, but could make a better system.
yes im thinking going with one of the Daly models with CANBUS, I suspect eventually a software upgrade will be available with solark to support integration of BMS. ugh and now arguing with Nimi Liu at Dongguan Daly, on the difference of a 2p16s and 16s2p, she says they are they same thing I keep telling her they are different and since im doing 16s2p that I need 2 BMS, she keeps saying I only need 1 BMS and cannot do that.

anyhow this thread on balancing is great ive already watched wills videos series on it. hopeful to get a good recommendation on a PSU.
 
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yes im thinking going with one of the Daly models with CANBUS, I suspect eventually a software upgrade will be available with solark to support integration of BMS. ugh and now arguing with Nimi Liu at Dongguan Daly, on the difference of a 2p16s and 16s2p, she says they are they same thing I keep telling her they are different and since im doing 16s2p that I need 2 BMS, she keeps saying I only need 1 BMS and cannot do that.
You will find that Alibaba vendors frequently have no clue. Especially Daly, I suspected that they don't manufacture their bigger BMS, and others here have confirmed it.
 
...now arguing with Nimi Liu at Dongguan Daly, on the difference of a 2p16s and 16s2p, she says they are they same thing I keep telling her they are different and since im doing 16s2p that I need 2 BMS, she keeps saying I only need 1 BMS and cannot do that.

Just tell her the second one is a spare for when the 1st crappy one dies you don't have to wait weeks for a replacement.
 
@ Just John: yes please recommend a 60amp PSU, and also any other items/equipment/cables/connecters Id need to do a proper top or bottom balancing of 32 310ah cells? I currently have a fluke meter, thats it.

Sorry for the delay, I looked it up, the 60 amp supply is available here:


They seem to be identical to the Tekpower, but I have no experience and can't vouch for the quality or reliability.
I think it likely the Tekpower is a rebranded version of this, but don't know for sure.
I know the Tekpower has been a very good, consistent, and reliable power supply for me. Others on the forum report the same.
 
im considering just bottom balancing, as I understand you can get away with no BMS that way.
Ten years ago that was a theory on the DIY electric car forums because the inexpensive BMSs were unreliable then..That theory has died as better more reliable BMSs have arrived. As mentioned it was only debated in the DIY EV segment and not relevant to storage.
 
@ Just John: yes please recommend a 60amp PSU, and also any other items/equipment/cables/connecters Id need to do a proper top or bottom balancing of 32 310ah cells? I currently have a fluke meter, thats it.

First abandon all thoughts of using alligator clips to connect your charger. You want good quality larger gauge wire with real quality crimped ring terminals or lugs, this will help a LOT with how many amps you can push, which means a shorter time spent top balancing.

If you live in a high humidity environment, you want to use tinned or plated wires and connectors. I recommend it even if you live in the desert like I do.

The highest quality marine grade wire (10 gauge, I use it all the time for 40 amps, doesn't get above room temperature):
Black:
Red:

If you live in the desert and keep things indoors like I do, this wire works well (not tinned, not rated for UV exposure, etc):

I use the 10 gauge because it is easy to find crimp connectors for, and generally speaking adequate for at least 40 amps if only used for short distances. When you get to larger gauge wire, you usually have to order crimp connectors individually, and use a different crimp tool.

Assortment of crimp connectors I used:

Crimp tool I used (note that this is for heat shrink connectors ONLY, you need a different crimp head for different types of connectors like nylon):

Will also has excellent recommendations, I'm just giving you what I have used (note that the Klein wire stripper Will recommends "Katapult" is what I use as well, best one I've found by far):

Will gets a small percentage if you order from his links, and that helps keep the forum running, none of my links are sponsored in any way, but I generally link to the "Amazon Smile" version that does donate to a charity of your choice.

Most commonly ordered cells come with M6 sized holes, which nicely fits/works with 1/4 inch connectors (for 10 gauge wire and heat shrink connectors):

Most cheap power supplies used for top balancing with banana jacks will also use 1/4 connectors, just unscrew the outer banana jack cover, and put the ring terminal on, then screw it back on tightly for an excellent connection.

Cheap power supply I used (before I purchased better ones):

Slightly more expensive (but pretty much identical internally, Will recommends a different supply in his tools, but it is the same as this one, just a different brand name on the case):

Review I did of the cheap supply above so you can be sure it won't die if run at full rated output:

I tend to use Anderson connectors for things like connecting a charger, since alligator clips should NOT be used. Anderson connectors are polarized (so you don't accidentally swap positive and negative). The most common one I've used (for up to 50 amps):

I hope that helps, let me know if you have questions.
 
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Hi, I have a sailboat and I'm upgrading the old house batteries to LifePO4. I recently got the 8 pcs of 280Ah EVE cells delivered from China, to build a 2P4S 12V 560Ah configuration. All batteries had the same initial voltage.

I have been top balancing all in parallel for about a week with 10A, until the voltage meter topped 3.60V and I let them sit there together for a couple days.

The voltage on all cells dropped from 3.600V to 3.337V, except one that was 3.305V.

I'm thinking about strategies to verify what options I have

  • Pump up the cell to 3.337V and balance once again (could have been a bad connection)
  • Make a 1P4S battery of the cells and see what Rec-BMS thinks of the cell
  • Just contact the vendor directly?
Thanks!
 
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Charge the one cell to 3.600V, wait for it's charge current to taper off, then disconnect and let sit?
As you said, could have been a bad connection.
 
Hi, I have a sailboat and I'm upgrading the old house batteries to LifePO4. I recently got the 8 pcs of 280Ah EVE cells delivered from China, to build a 2P4S 12V 560Ah configuration. All batteries had the same initial voltage.

I have been top balancing all in parallel for about a week with 10A, until the voltage meter topped 3.60V and I let them sit there together for a couple days.

The voltage on all cells dropped from 3.600V to 3.337V, except one that was 3.305V.

I'm thinking about strategies to verify what options I have

  • Pump up the cell to 3.337V and balance once again (could have been a bad connection)
  • Make a 1P4S battery of the cells and see what Rec-BMS thinks of the cell
  • Just contact the vendor directly?
Thanks!
Did you do any type of absorb when you got to 3.6V?
 
Did you do any type of absorb when you got to 3.6V?
Hi, surely I was a bit hesitant after well over a week of charing, I had the charge voltage little too high and I was measuring the charging voltage, not the internal voltage of the battery. so the batteries were 90% full. So absorbed slowly the up to 3.600V, and followed the one battery that was behind every now and then. The battery did catch up with the others.

So after charging them up to 3.000V they are now settled all 3.573V equal over the 8 cells. I'm happy, and can now start building my 560Ah 12V battery with REC-BMS and Victron chargers.
 
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