Utility Company Charging an overage fee that doesn't add up

[DHH]

My Sunpower panels generate an average of 45 kW daily, and according to So Cal Edison we use approximately 14 kW per day, down from 18 kW from last year because we are now empty nesters. My understanding is that I shouldn't be paying if I generate more than use yet So Cal Edison sent us an overage Bill of $900+ for the year. Is there something I do not understand? and if this is a mistake, like I think it is, how do I dispute this?

 

[RCinFLA]

Utilities are very creative is their tariffing. Their intention is to make it confusing to read your bill and collect as much money as possible.

Very few utilities allow zero net billing anymore for PV generation.

Some give you a fractional rate for power pushed to grid versus what they charge for consumed power.
Some adjust the rate for time of day.

Time of use tariffing is setup to make it hard to yield PV credits.

 

[BentleyJ]

My Sunpower panels generate an average of 45 kW daily, and according to So Cal Edison we use approximately 14 kW per day, down from 18 kW from last year because we are now empty nesters. My understanding is that I shouldn't be paying if I generate more than use yet So Cal Edison sent us an overage Bill of $900+ for the year. Is there something I do not understand? and if this is a mistake, like I think it is, how do I dispute this?

I had a similar problem several years ago when our system was new and SCE swapped out the Smart Meter with a new 2 channel model. One channel for incoming and one for outgoing power. I was writing down the values everyday and noticed there was a BIG discrepancy. Called SCE got no where. Filed a complaint with the CA PUC who immediately forwarded it back to SCE. Took about a month to get their attention but finally a manager called and said they had sent out a meter tech and determined the newly installed meter was defective. They rolled back the previous 2 months bill to 0 and started over with a new meter. So yes, those meters are not 100% perfect in all cases and they will correct the issue eventually, just have some patients and keep bugging them.

With ToU billing you really need batteries for self consumption between 4pm and 9pm on Summer Weekdays. Otherwise the rates are as high as 60 cents per kWh at a time in the afternoon when PV output is falling off but A/C demand is at maximum in So Cal.

Our meter has Channel 001, 071 & 082. 001 is kWh consumed, 071 is kWh sold back to SCE and 082 appears to be some kind of immediate power flow value. My advise would be to gather up all your inverter production data, utility bills, meter readings every day for the next 2 weeks and whatever else you have.

Feel free to post here if we can help sort through things and figure out what happened

 

[RCinFLA]

Most of the newer smart meters will register pushed power as consumed power until they are reprogrammed after interconnect service agreement is in place.

 

[740GLE]

My Sunpower panels generate an average of 45 kW daily, and according to So Cal Edison we use approximately 14 kW per day, down from 18 kW from last year because we are now empty nesters. My understanding is that I shouldn't be paying if I generate more than use yet So Cal Edison sent us an overage Bill of $900+ for the year. Is there something I do not understand? and if this is a mistake, like I think it is, how do I dispute this?

So you owe $900 for the year?

Do you know how much your panels generated for the year? Or did you just assume 45kwhr a day?

 

[Hedges]

You could post the details of your billing, we might observe time of use differences between export credit and import charges.

When was your system installed? Is it NEM (1.0), NEM 2.0, or NEM 3.0?

Once upon a time, we got full retail credit for exports. And time of use was optional.
Today, time of use is mandatory, and installations under an agreement made after April 14th 2023 are NEM 3.0, where credits are about $0.05/kWh (during hours of good sunshine), and charges are $0.30 to $0.60 (Highest late afternoon to evening.)

The decision to put in PV system is complicated, and like all "good" salespeople, PV salespeople are good at obfuscation and deceit. Possibly, if you spend even more money on an AC coupled battery, you would finally see financial benefit. Or, simply shifting when loads operate to the hours when PV produces.

 

[BentleyJ]

Most of the newer smart meters will register pushed power as consumed power until they are reprogrammed after interconnect service agreement is in place.

The meter was installed after we received permission to operate and was supposed to be already set up for NET metering. That fact that it did have both the incoming and outgoing channels displayed indicates it was indeed programmed as a net meter.

The SCE operations manager told me when the meter tech went out and plugged in the programming tool, there was no response from the meter. So something happened to the electronics and the meter definitely failed.

 

[DHH]

You could post the details of your billing, we might observe time of use differences between export credit and import charges.

When was your system installed? Is it NEM (1.0), NEM 2.0, or NEM 3.0?

Once upon a time, we got full retail credit for exports. And time of use was optional.
Today, time of use is mandatory, and installations under an agreement made after April 14th 2023 are NEM 3.0, where credits are about $0.05/kWh (during hours of good sunshine), and charges are $0.30 to $0.60 (Highest late afternoon to evening.)

The decision to put in PV system is complicated, and like all "good" salespeople, PV salespeople are good at obfuscation and deceit. Possibly, if you spend even more money on an AC coupled battery, you would finally see financial benefit. Or, simply shifting when loads operate to the hours when PV produces.

I am assuming I’m NEM 2.0. Paneled where installed in 01/2023

 

[HRTKD]

The OP hit Report instead of Reply. Here is the reply that was reported:

I have the app for sun power and 4K he is the daily average for the year

 

[DHH]

I had a similar problem several years ago when our system was new and SCE swapped out the Smart Meter with a new 2 channel model. One channel for incoming and one for outgoing power. I was writing down the values everyday and noticed there was a BIG discrepancy. Called SCE got no where. Filed a complaint with the CA PUC who immediately forwarded it back to SCE. Took about a month to get their attention but finally a manager called and said they had sent out a meter tech and determined the newly installed meter was defective. They rolled back the previous 2 months bill to 0 and started over with a new meter. So yes, those meters are not 100% perfect in all cases and they will correct the issue eventually, just have some patients and keep bugging them.

With ToU billing you really need batteries for self consumption between 4pm and 9pm on Summer Weekdays. Otherwise the rates are as high as 60 cents per kWh at a time in the afternoon when PV output is falling off but A/C demand is at maximum in So Cal.

Our meter has Channel 001, 071 & 082. 001 is kWh consumed, 071 is kWh sold back to SCE and 082 appears to be some kind of immediate power flow value. My advise would be to gather up all your inverter production data, utility bills, meter readings every day for the next 2 weeks and whatever else you have.

Feel free to post here if we can help sort through things and figure out what happened

Not familiar with the CA PUC but would love their contact info if you have it, in case I need to go that route. I’m anticipating this will be a struggle and will be pleasantly surprised if not.

 

[DHH]

The OP hit Report instead of Reply. Here is the reply that was reported:

The app says I have 45kw daily average for the last year since I installed in Jan 2023

 

[DHH]

The OP hit Report instead of Reply. Here is the reply that was reported:

Sorry I hit the wrong button, new to the forum.

 

[HRTKD]

Sorry I hit the wrong button, new to the forum.

Not a problem. You're not the first to do that.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[hwy17]

Remember that SCE does not see all the power that the panels generate, as reported in the app, some of that gets used by you behind the meter.

The most likely answer here is that there is not a mistake. There should be a lot of detail on your import / export kwh in your SCE online account.

NEM 2 is not a true net metering plan, 1kwh out does not buy 1kwh in. The 1kwh out gets credited at the daytime rate less NBCs and then 1kwh in in the evening gets charged at peak rates.

 

[BentleyJ]

Here is the link where you can file a complaint with the Public Utilities Commission. Apparently they have a formal and an informal complaint process.

Filing a Formal Complaint

www.cpuc.ca.gov

 

[BentleyJ]

The app says I have 45kw daily average for the last year since I installed in Jan 2023

Is the app actually saying 45kW? Should be reporting kWh.

Something doesn't sound right. If your system was sized based on the above stated 18kWh per day average usage how did you get approval for 45kWh per day?

We will need more info to make sense of your usage vs. production. If you go to SCE.com and set up an online account. Your monthly bills can be viewed and downloaded as PDF's. Also would need to see historical data from the inverter.

 

[Hedges]

NEM 2 is not a true net metering plan, 1kwh out does not buy 1kwh in. The 1kwh out gets credited at the daytime rate less NBCs and then 1kwh in in the evening gets charged at peak rates.

In other words, you produced power for a credit of maybe $0.30/kWh mostly between 9:00 AM and 3:00 PM, but you paid maybe $0.60/kWh between 4:00 PM and 9:00 PM.

Depending on when most of your usage occurs, you might be getting 1 kWh to use for every 2 kW produced. And some monthly fees and probably per kWh fees (I don't have a NEM 2.0 system yet so I'm not clear on the exact terms.)

Shifting when you operate heavy loads would be the first approach, e.g. heat or cool a bit extra before rates increase late in the afternoon, then set the thermostat back. Enable water heater and do laundry, etc. during low rates.

Before permission to operate, you may have been on a non time of use plan. Now you are required to have time of use.

Possibly an added AC coupled battery will be beneficial. If it costs around $0.10/kWh, could save you $0.20/kWh, or boost your export credits by that much.