Q-Dog
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Well, if you want to sell back to them you need to do it their way. If you can set it up for zero sell back could you use what you have?
Utility jerking me around.
- Thread starter TheFlumph
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Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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That's what I was thinking. People do that sometimes, because existing or for more capacity.
UL1741SA (and maybe a bit more now, "SA" by itself wasn't sufficient for PG&E any more.)
1) easy for them to approve.
2) If relying on hybrid to do anti-islanding and disconnect GT PV inverter, I get concerned about stuck relays.
You can pick up used but working inverters. If RSD is needed, make sure same ones compatible with both hybrid and GT PV.
I try to pay around $0.10/W, so $500 for 5kW GT PV inverter.
All the more reason to comply in a small way, circumvent for more.
Ain't nobody's business but ours. If we convert one kind of electromagnetic energy into another for our personal use.
TheFlumph
New Member
Ya, that’s my final go to. Just get extra batteries and go that route. If I can’t work this out with them.
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Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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Although, that would put production meter downstream of consumption meter instead of parallel.
(Which utility could untangle with math if they were so inclined.)
hwy17
Anti-Solar Enthusiast
5 consultants, 18 months, $900k billed, $11k monthly 5 year service agreement entered with multinational math systems provider and in the end it still doesn't connect to their billing management system so a specialist has to spend 3.5 hours every month loading the spreadsheet.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
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My previous net-meter logged "Total" and "Peak".
Off-peak was computed as Total - Peak.
So when a bit flip or something (during a month of solar storms) showed I imported 17 MWh during peak times one month, they calculated that I exported about 16 MWh during off-peak. My PV system was really working overtime, while the sun don't shine.
The bill was a couple $thousand, due to spread in rates.
They said after testing the meter was fine.
I said that 400A continuous through 2/0 or 3/0 would have melted it.
(I now know it is also 2x the KVA rating of utility transformer; each neighbor can load it 100%).
They did adjust my bill appropriately.
OK, how about forget net metering, just install an off-grid system and lots of PowerPro batteries. Add 1 or more ChargeVerter.
Off-peak was computed as Total - Peak.
So when a bit flip or something (during a month of solar storms) showed I imported 17 MWh during peak times one month, they calculated that I exported about 16 MWh during off-peak. My PV system was really working overtime, while the sun don't shine.
The bill was a couple $thousand, due to spread in rates.
They said after testing the meter was fine.
I said that 400A continuous through 2/0 or 3/0 would have melted it.
(I now know it is also 2x the KVA rating of utility transformer; each neighbor can load it 100%).
They did adjust my bill appropriately.
OK, how about forget net metering, just install an off-grid system and lots of PowerPro batteries. Add 1 or more ChargeVerter.
TheFlumph
New Member
I’m seriously considering it. 2 more power pro batteries would cost me about $5400 after tax credit. That would bring my batteries to about 43 kWh. (Three total power pro batteries)
In the winter I use about 60 kWh daily because of a heat pump in very cold temps. In the summer I use about 40kwh daily.
So my hope with net metering was to build credit in the summer to offset winter costs.
Net metering here pays .21kwh as mandated by state law. That’s why the utility co hates it so much. They would rather be buying wholesale dirty power. When I’m producing twice what I need in the summer, I just lose it without net metering. That’s at least $1000/year but probably more like $1500 I lose out on.
I would than suggest going standard grid tie if they let you. You can always change in the future (especially if you plan now to make it easier) to using a hybrid setup.
green mountain boys
Solar Enthusiast
What utility company? This does not sound like GMP.
TheFlumph
New Member
Washington electric.i wish I could get GMP here.
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TheFlumph
New Member
So inverter straight to their export meter and not hooked to my backup at all?
At that point it might be better to just get a sub $2000 grid tie inverter and hook 40 of my 60 panels to it and keep my hybrid and battery separate on the other 20 panels for critical needs backup.
I don’t know. I’ve got Covid brain this week and I’m thoroughly pissed off at them throwing me yet another curveball. Hard to figure out what I want to do.
green mountain boys
Solar Enthusiast
1. The utility cited "VT PUC Rule 5.500". Have you read this? Does this rule say that they are required to measure your solar production? I ask because it sounds like a strange requirement.
https://puc.vermont.gov/sites/psbne...c-generation-interconnection-procedures_0.pdf
2. The state of Vermont has been promoting green energy for a long time. As you pointed out, the requirement to purchase your solar energy at a favorable rate to you. I wonder if you would get any support from the Department of Public Service if the utility is going beyond what is reasonable? Normally I would not recommend seeking help from the state, but in this case maybe you would get some support if the utility is putting undue requirements on the customer?
https://puc.vermont.gov/sites/psbne...c-generation-interconnection-procedures_0.pdf
2. The state of Vermont has been promoting green energy for a long time. As you pointed out, the requirement to purchase your solar energy at a favorable rate to you. I wonder if you would get any support from the Department of Public Service if the utility is going beyond what is reasonable? Normally I would not recommend seeking help from the state, but in this case maybe you would get some support if the utility is putting undue requirements on the customer?
TheFlumph
New Member
I had the same thought about 5.500. I read it and didn’t see it. I emailed and asked for the section they are referring to.
If it’s not in 5.500 and they still insist, I’ll absolutely get the state involved.
If it’s a state rule I’ll probably get a basic grid tie inverter and just hook that into their export meter and get interconnected. The rest won’t be their business.
Utilities do have a hard time keeping up with changes in how distributed generation can be interpreted into their system, doubly so for little COOPs. Zero export PV is radical to many. Also seeing COOP are “member owned” they may not fall under PUC regulations.
Their first goal is safety, then it’s compliance. If you can convince them you have zero export there’s no harm or risk to the utility other than reduced revenue.
My only guess as to why they want PV inverter meters to to claim some sort of SREC in your behalf.
IMO at this point it might be best to say you’re taking your system off grid and island you system (with grid back up as needed) and fight them if they start poking around.
Their first goal is safety, then it’s compliance. If you can convince them you have zero export there’s no harm or risk to the utility other than reduced revenue.
My only guess as to why they want PV inverter meters to to claim some sort of SREC in your behalf.
IMO at this point it might be best to say you’re taking your system off grid and island you system (with grid back up as needed) and fight them if they start poking around.
green mountain boys
Solar Enthusiast
I am pretty sure if the OP checks on this you will find the state specifically says SREC belongs to the customer.
hmm. Who gave them that idea ?
TheFlumph
New Member
Ya I couldn’t find that in 5.500. I’m waiting for their response pointing to the section they are referring me to.
TheFlumph
New Member
The math works heavily in the favor of net metering. Most of the year I’ll be generating more than I use and they pay a lot per kWh here.
Honestly I would be better off just trying to return my hybrid inverter and battery, getting a much cheaper grid tie inverter and getting a propane generator for random power outages that typically don’t last over a day.
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