AZ Solar Junkie
Maricopa, AZ
All these discussions make me so glad I stuck with off-grid with grid backup, keeping the electric company out of my business 
Utility jerking me around.
- Thread starter TheFlumph
- Start date
TheFlumph
New Member
So from what I can tell, the utility really recommends residential net metering clients surrender their renewable energy credits to the utility. If you don’t, they punish you with a .06 less per kwh they pay.
They can then use these credits themselves. That’s probably why they insist on a separate meter.
They can then use these credits themselves. That’s probably why they insist on a separate meter.
Have not had to deal with the utilities in your neck of the woods, but out here the PoCo needs to approve all systems if they are grid tied. In speaking to several installers, it seems that it almost always takes 2 or 3 rounds with the PoCo to get approved; usually just reminding them of their own rules and how what you submitted meets them.
If you can talks to some knowledgeable installers in your area, they should be able to tell you if your local co is just having "fun" with you or if what they say really is per the rules.
If you can talks to some knowledgeable installers in your area, they should be able to tell you if your local co is just having "fun" with you or if what they say really is per the rules.
This. Amen! I have friends who say, "But it won't cost you anything because you'll make so much extra power in the summer, blah blah, blah." Well, yeah, except it's going to cost me a ton of aggravation, a zillion pages of forms, justifying things to an endless stream of bureaucrats and half-informed corporate droids, and on and on. I had to call a local solar and heat pump installer's tech dept yesterday to help out my local fire dept on a project. It took about 2 minutes before their technical knowledge was insufficient to continue. And those are the "experts" installing these grid-tie systems. No, thank you.All these discussions make me so glad I stuck with off-grid with grid backup, keeping the electric company out of my business
I think you uncovered the reason. However, they should allow you to connect your AIO as intended and take the 6 cent hit.
wpns
Solar Joules are catch and release
Sure, we all love "The Grid Is My Battery" aka Net Metering, but there's enough pushback from the power companies that it's feeling easier to just go completely off-grid, oversize everything (panels, inverters, batteries), and get a small backup generator for the really lean times.
My favorite is: We buy all your generated solar power at the wholesale rate and sell you all your consumption at the retail rate, even when you are generating and consuming simultaneously we charge you the delta for your own power.
Especially annoying when the grid is unreliable!
My favorite is: We buy all your generated solar power at the wholesale rate and sell you all your consumption at the retail rate, even when you are generating and consuming simultaneously we charge you the delta for your own power.
Especially annoying when the grid is unreliable!
TheFlumph
New Member
If they could get away will dismal wholesale rates here they would. But the state forces them to pay .20+ per kWh. If this were over .04 like some places there no way I would jump through all these hoops. But at .20 it’s worth it in the long run. I would be producing almost $5,000 worth a year.
green mountain boys
Solar Enthusiast
A wise man once told me the three steps to winning an a disagreement with an organization like government or, in this case, a utility.
1. Take the time to fully understand your opponents position and all of their individual arguments. Anticipate any argument they have not yet stated. Take the time to understand the subject better then they do.
2. Find iron-clad arguments to counter each of their points. Evaluate the strength of your points and refine until you are fully confident.
3. When the day finally comes for the big meeting. I take out my bright red T-shirt with bold lettering that says, " I REFUSE TO HAVE A BATTLE OF WITS WITH AN UNARMED PERSON"
TheFlumph
New Member
Ok. I’ve come up with plan B.I made a new plan for two growatt min 7600 grid tie inverters.
this plan has me going grid tie only and I’ll just get a propane generator later on for power outages.
I have 60 300w panels. I could go 3 strings of 10 into each of the two inverters and then combine the ac output in an AC combiner (breaker box with two 35a breakers in and a 70a breaker out.) then to my production meter. After the ac disconnect I’ll just land on a 70a backfeed breaker. The two inverters output a max of 32a each.
The 70 backfeed breaker is within the 120% rule for my main panel busbar.
All the learning and researching and experience I have is from my hybrid inverter. I haven’t dealt with these grid tie only inverters. How does this look?
This is all predicated on if signature solar takes my return back. They said probably with a restock fee.
Quattrohead
Solar Wizard
Just use the 18k in off grid mode, then it is just a FGB battery charger and none of their business. Maybe swap it for a pair of 6000XP if they are nervous of any possible backfeed.
You said you don't need permits or inspections, don't sign up for their silly games, nothing to do with them.
They and subsequently you are making this way more difficult than it needs to be.
You said you don't need permits or inspections, don't sign up for their silly games, nothing to do with them.
They and subsequently you are making this way more difficult than it needs to be.
TheFlumph
New Member
I would if I weren’t going to be leaving thousands of dollars per year on the table.
I’m in this to reduce my $450 winter electric bills, not to be off grid. As I said, if I weren’t getting .20/kwh I wouldn’t bother.
NC_hydro
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2022
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- 234
I think you are confused….to be off grid is to reduce/eliminate your $450 power bill lol.
dougbert
Solar Addict
ditto hereAll these discussions make me so glad I stuck with off-grid with grid backup, keeping the electric company out of my business
that is a feature I want
kayakingphotos
New Member
What are you talking about??? we have GREAT solar production here in Vermont in the winter
Was I supposed to get more than 20 watt hours of production in a day from a 360 watt panel a few weeks back?
Quattrohead
Solar Wizard
Solar does not suite everyone in all situations, this seems to be an example of this.
OP needs to think outside the power companies box and accept what is possible and financially prudent.
OP needs to think outside the power companies box and accept what is possible and financially prudent.
green mountain boys
Solar Enthusiast
Why have you moved on to Plan B? Have you exhausted all options with Plan A? Did the utility clarify their position with regard to the rule they cited?
TheFlumph
New Member
Exactly. I can only make a fraction of what I need in the winter.
TheFlumph
New Member
Ya I heard back from them about the rule. They were citing the wrong one.
It’s actually 5.100
5.126 Energy Measurement for Net-Metering Systems
(A) Electric energy measurement for net-metering systems must be performed in the following manner:
(1) At its own expense, the applicant must install a production meter to measure the electricity produced by the net-metering system.
And SS is working with me on a return. The equipment is unused and the inverter is still packed up.
Two grid tie inverters will be cheaper than a hybrid plus battery anyway.
I haven’t gotten any feedback on that diagram. I may just post it as its own post.
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