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diy solar

Very first top balance

bushi12

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Sep 19, 2021
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This is my first ever top balance. Does it appear right?
I set the voltage to 3.65 but when I connected it dropped to 3.55.
If I'm correct I'll be waiting till the bottom number reaches 0?
Amps are turned up all the way.

I'm new so your input will not be ignored! I may not take it but I'll listen to it ?
 

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Sounds about right.
Voltage drop under load. ALWAYS confirm your preset open circuit voltage setting with a trusted voltmeter/multimeter. If in doubt, dial back to 3.45- 3.55 volts open circuit.
 
Sounds about right.
Voltage drop under load. ALWAYS confirm your preset open circuit voltage setting with a trusted voltmeter/multimeter. If in doubt, dial back to 3.45- 3.55 volts open circuit.
Okay thanks. I turned it off. Pulled off the terminals and turned back on. Checked the leads with meter and got 3.63. So it's pretty close. Didn't know to do that. Appreciate it!!!
 
Do you know what the cell voltage is?

Typically cells are shipped at 40-50% state of charge. Around 3.29-3.3 v.

If power supply picture is shortly after you started, with 3.55v showing on power supply, and 3.3v cell voltage, then you have too much wire resistance going to power supply. It will increase top balancing time as you approach full charge.

You should disconnect power supply lead at least once a day to check power supply voltage limit is still at 3.65v. Do not adjust power supply voltage when batteries are connected.

Next is patiences. If you started at 50% state of charge on sixteen 280 AH cells with 10 amps charge, you only have 280AH x 50% SOC x 16 cells / 10A charge = 224 hours or 9.33 days to go.

With too much power supply lead resistance for 10 amps this time will be greater. For two 2.5ft long leads, #10 is minimum, #8 is better.

Don't go by power supply voltage read out, go by measurement of cell voltage on cell terminals with DVM. When cells get to 3.4v their voltage will begin to rise faster from that point.
 
Assuming it is a 10 amp supply all is running as expected. May take a few days or a week +.
I like the idea of resetting or checking the voltage once a day. Always set with supply disconnected from the battery.
 
Check your voltage at the power supply and check at either end of the battery string. Check it diagonally where the leads are connected an at the opposite corners as well. Any loss through the leads or a questionable connection on one of the bus bars will be revealed right away.
 
Do you know what the cell voltage is?

Typically cells are shipped at 40-50% state of charge. Around 3.29-3.3 v.

If power supply picture is shortly after you started, with 3.55v showing on power supply, and 3.3v cell voltage, then you have too much wire resistance going to power supply. It will increase top balancing time as you approach full charge.

You should disconnect power supply lead at least once a day to check power supply voltage limit is still at 3.65v. Do not adjust power supply voltage when batteries are connected.

Next is patiences. If you started at 50% state of charge on sixteen 280 AH cells with 10 amps charge, you only have 280AH x 50% SOC x 16 cells / 10A charge = 224 hours or 9.33 days to go.

With too much power supply lead resistance for 10 amps this time will be greater. For two 2.5ft long leads, #10 is minimum, #8 is better.

Don't go by power supply voltage read out, go by measurement of cell voltage on cell terminals with DVM. When cells get to 3.4v their voltage will begin to rise faster from that point.
Okay yes your right. I checked before and these pics were at start up. They showed 3.295 on all 16. Actually all 32 that I ordered were exactly 3.295. I will rebuild the leads with larger wire. I didn't do that large. And mine are 48" a piece as well. I do all readings with the voltage disconnected from the batteries. And do the charger output reading disconnect as well.
 
Check your voltage at the power supply and check at either end of the battery string. Check it diagonally where the leads are connected an at the opposite corners as well. Any loss through the leads or a questionable connection on one of the bus bars will be revealed right away.
Okay will do thanks!!!
 
Okay yes your right. I checked before and these pics were at start up. They showed 3.295 on all 16. Actually all 32 that I ordered were exactly 3.295. I will rebuild the leads with larger wire. I didn't do that large. And mine are 48" a piece as well. I do all readings with the voltage disconnected from the batteries. And do the charger output reading disconnect as well

You have until power supply goes into voltage limit at close to 3.65v on power supply readout before present lead wire voltage drop starts to impact charge time. You will see the power suppy current begin to drop off even though cells are only about 3.4v with the wire voltage drop you now have. With larger gauge wire with no more then 50 mV total pair wire lead terminal voltage drop it will have little impact on full charge time and the power supply current limit of 10 amps will be maintained almost all the way to 3.65v cell voltage.

This is the point where many folks make the mistake of jacking up the power supply voltage limit above 3.65v setting to raise the current back up to 10 amps. Never do this as when cells do get near full charge the current will drop off reducing wire voltage drop; and the power supply voltage limit will rise to the revised high limit you adjusted it to maintain 10 amp charge.

Remember the cell voltage will rise at a faster rate above about 3.4v cell voltage and the slow cell voltage rise rate accelerates faster then you have previously got acustom to up to that point. Don't assume you will manually catch the point when cells reach 3.65v and be able to tweak the power supply voltage limit back down. Murphy's law says this will happen in the middle of night when you are sleeping and you wake up to find cells sitting over 3.65v. This can be catastropic for cell bloating when folks are using the power supply vendor supplied cheap junk 16-18 gauge leads.

With the initial cell voltage starting at 3.295v (assuming your DVM is accurate), they are at about 50% state of charge and it is going to take the 9+ days per 16 cell parallel group (assuming these are 280 AH cells).

If you want to monitor the progress, assuming you have an accurate DVM, you can check voltage at cell terminals against attached graph.
This chart is for rested open circuit cell voltage. An LFP cell gets to about 95% recovery to its final equilibrium no load voltage in about 60 seconds after load or charge current is removed, this applies when cell is in the 20% to 90% state of charge range. Outside this SOC range it takes longer.

For the low charge rate you are using you should subtract off 10-20 mV from cell voltage measurement under the low charge rate to match this graph voltages. For higher charge rates the amount to subtract from cell reading increases. 0.05 CA charge rate subtract 25 mV, 0.1 CA subtract 35 mV, 0.2 CA charge rate subtract 50 mV for cells at about 25 degs C.

LiFePO4 Cell no load voltage.png
 
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It seems to make sense to make a 12v/24v battery with BMS, let the BMS disconnect when first cell gets to 3.4/3.5v, then top balance individual cells the last little bit. Much less time fiddling with the bench top power supply.

250watts seems to be much better than 36 watts, assuming current can be held at 10A
 
You have until power supply goes into voltage limit at close to 3.65v on power supply readout before present lead wire voltage drop starts to impact charge time. You will see the power suppy current begin to drop off even though cells are only about 3.4v with the wire voltage drop you now have. With larger gauge wire with no more then 50 mV total pair wire lead terminal voltage drop it will have little impact on full charge time and the power supply current limit of 10 amps will be maintained almost all the way to 3.65v cell voltage.

This is the point where many folks make the mistake of jacking up the power supply voltage limit above 3.65v setting to raise the current back up to 10 amps. Never do this as when cells do get near full charge the current will drop off reducing wire voltage drop; and the power supply voltage limit will rise to the revised high limit you adjusted it to maintain 10 amp charge.

Remember the cell voltage will rise at a faster rate above about 3.4v cell voltage and the slow cell voltage rise rate accelerates faster then you have previously got acustom to up to that point. Don't assume you will manually catch the point when cells reach 3.65v and be able to tweak the power supply voltage limit back down. Murphy's law says this will happen in the middle of night when you are sleeping and you wake up to find cells sitting over 3.65v. This can be catastropic for cell bloating when folks are using the power supply vendor supplied cheap junk 16-18 gauge leads.

With the initial cell voltage starting at 3.295v (assuming your DVM is accurate), they are at about 50% state of charge and it is going to take the 9+ days per 16 cell parallel group (assuming these are 280 AH cells).

If you want to monitor the progress, assuming you have an accurate DVM, you can check voltage at cell terminals against attached graph.
This chart is for rested open circuit cell voltage. An LFP cell gets to about 95% recovery to its final equilibrium no load voltage in about 60 seconds after load or charge current is removed, this applies when cell is in the 20% to 90% state of charge range. Outside this SOC range it takes longer.

For the low charge rate you are using you should subtract off 10-20 mV from cell voltage measurement under the low charge rate to match this graph voltages. For higher charge rates the amount to subtract from cell reading increases. 0.05 CA charge rate subtract 25 mV, 0.1 CA subtract 35 mV, 0.2 CA charge rate subtract 50 mV for cells at about 25 degs C.

View attachment 66970
Man thats alot to absorb. I appreciate it! I'm not leaving these to charge without me checking on them at least every hour. I shut it down while sleeping and at work. Thanks again for the info.
 
It seems to make sense to make a 12v/24v battery with BMS, let the BMS disconnect when first cell gets to 3.4/3.5v, then top balance individual cells the last little bit. Much less time fiddling with the bench top power supply.

250watts seems to be much better than 36 watts, assuming current can be held at 10A
Thats an excellent idea. Could I have a 8s 48v overwatch bms. Could I use that?
 
Thats an excellent idea. Could I have a 8s 48v overwatch bms. Could I use that?
Sorry I meant I have a 8s24v overwatch bms. Only thing is I don't have a 24v charger. I could get one if it'd be worth it. Less days would be worth it to me.
 
It seems to make sense to make a 12v/24v battery with BMS, let the BMS disconnect when first cell gets to 3.4/3.5v, then top balance individual cells the last little bit. Much less time fiddling with the bench top power supply.

250watts seems to be much better than 36 watts, assuming current can be held at 10A
Screenshot_20210930-222321_DuckDuckGo.jpgScreenshot_20210930-222321_DuckDuckGo.jpg
 
This is my first ever top balance. Does it appear right?
I set the voltage to 3.65 but when I connected it dropped to 3.55.
If I'm correct I'll be waiting till the bottom number reaches 0?
Amps are turned up all the way.

I'm new so your input will not be ignored! I may not take it but I'll listen to it ?

Bottom number is watts. Middle number is amps. Don't wait for those to reach zero. That will take forever and I think would over-charge the battery. Sitting at 3.65V it will eventually pass 100%.
Terminate at some tail current. I don't know the exact number, might be 0.1A. You can probably find that in forum resources on these batteries.

You might want to turn amps down a bit, maybe 80% of limit. Less likely the supply will die part way through the process. We figure you'd better "derate" any questionable, no-name, "economy" grade product.
 
Your existing power supply model number says 3010.... is that 30 volts 10 amps? I would go with what you have. Still put close to 10x the power into the batteries stacked 8s.
 
It seems to make sense to make a 12v/24v battery with BMS, let the BMS disconnect when first cell gets to 3.4/3.5v, then top balance individual cells the last little bit. Much less time fiddling with the bench top power supply.

250watts seems to be much better than 36 watts, assuming current can be held at 10A
20211002_160518.jpg
I have the overkill 24v bms set up to bring the first cell up to 3.5 I believe. I'll disconnect it and top balance the rest. Can someone look at these parameters and see if I'm missing something or it's wrong.
 
Sorry I meant I have a 8s24v overwatch bms. Only thing is I don't have a 24v charger. I could get one if it'd be worth it. Less days would be worth it to me.


Why would you need a separate 24v battery charger? Set your power supply to 3.5v per cell (28v), let the BMS do the rest.
 
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