Victron Inverters

[John.DS99]

I have bought some Victron items (shunt, small mppt) and I really love them, except I don't see how I can log their details.

I have thought about putting together an all Victron system, but I find the Inverters disappointing. They don't balance with their other components.

For Instance, a fairly low end mppt is the 150/30 which theoretically puts out 150V * 30 amps = 4500 Watts, but I'll expect half of that, or 2250 volts.

If I match this up with a fairly high end inverter, the Victron Phoenix Inverter 48/1200 | 1200VA Output| 48VDC Input | 120VAC Output
The manual says at 40C the continuous output is 900Watts, not enough to power a single 15A 120VAC outlet.

I see a lot of systems with 4 or more Victron mppts. I guess they aren't using Victron inverters for these, or they are using many of them which doesn't seem practical.

Can anyone recommend an inverter with a decent sine wave and enough power to support a couple of 15A 120VAC outlets? I have a cheap inverter to play with, but it looks like a staircase on an oscilloscope.

Thanks

 

[BentleyJ]

For Instance, a fairly low end mppt is the 150/30 which theoretically puts out 150V * 30 amps = 4500 Watts, but I'll expect half of that, or 2250 volts.

150V is the PV input voltage and 30A is the Battery charging Output current at 12, 24 or 48V depending on your battery voltage. The Victron datasheets will list the maximum watts each charge controller model is capable of.

If I match this up with a fairly high end inverter, the Victron Phoenix Inverter 48/1200 | 1200VA Output| 48VDC Input | 120VAC Output
The manual says at 40C the continuous output is 900Watts, not enough to power a single 15A 120VAC outlet.

Any brand of inverter will either derate itself or just shut down due to an over temperature alarm when ambient temps reach 100+ F.

Can anyone recommend an inverter with a decent sine wave and enough power to support a couple of 15A 120VAC outlets?

Based on the 80% rule, a 15A outlet can supply 12A continuous. So 24A x 120V = 2,880W
There are dozens of choices in the 3,000W inverter range. Starting with a simple pure sine wave inverter only to an inverter charger up to all-in-one inverters that have built in charge controllers, transfer switches, grid sell back and a variety of features. No way to recommend a product without more information regarding your specific needs.

 

[scrubjaysnest]

SNIP:

Based on the 80% rule, a 15A outlet can supply 12A continuous. So 24A x 120V = 2,880W
There are dozens of choices in the 3,000W inverter range. Starting with a simple pure sine wave inverter only to an inverter charger up to all-in-one inverters that have built in charge controllers, transfer switches, grid sell back and a variety of features. No way to recommend a product without more information regarding your specific needs.

My 1700 watt toaster doesn't understand the 80% rule works just fine. But then 1700 watts is only 14.2 amps.

 

[Brucey]

I have bought some Victron items (shunt, small mppt) and I really love them, except I don't see how I can log their details.

I have thought about putting together an all Victron system, but I find the Inverters disappointing. They don't balance with their other components.

For Instance, a fairly low end mppt is the 150/30 which theoretically puts out 150V * 30 amps = 4500 Watts, but I'll expect half of that, or 2250 volts.

If I match this up with a fairly high end inverter, the Victron Phoenix Inverter 48/1200 | 1200VA Output| 48VDC Input | 120VAC Output
The manual says at 40C the continuous output is 900Watts, not enough to power a single 15A 120VAC outlet.

I see a lot of systems with 4 or more Victron mppts. I guess they aren't using Victron inverters for these, or they are using many of them which doesn't seem practical.

Can anyone recommend an inverter with a decent sine wave and enough power to support a couple of 15A 120VAC outlets? I have a cheap inverter to play with, but it looks like a staircase on an oscilloscope.

Thanks

The 150/30 will ouput a max of 30A at the battery voltage (12/24/48V).

The 48/1200 is not a high end inverter in terms of max output in the Victron range. Tho it does have significant surge capabilities and a very low idle consumption. Consider a 48/3000 or 48/5000 multiplus 2 inverter/charger.

 

[Q-Dog]

Without knowing your loads it would be difficult to make a recommendation.

But, during our last grid outage our MultiPlus 3000 spent most of a day running a couple of space heaters and a few other loads ... hours outputting between 2000 and 2500 watts continuously and occasionally 3000 watts for a few minutes at a time. No faults and it never quit, but I got a flashing overload light on the front panel any time it went over 2400 watts. And sometimes the fan was running pretty fast. Victron says it can surge up to 6000 watts for a few seconds at a time, but when they say it can do 2400 watts continuous, you can believe it.

 

[740GLE]

2400watts but how many VARs? Typically space heaters have good power factor, but LEDs and CLF lights do not

It’s a 3000VA. You can’t ignore reactive power portion of your load.

 

[John.DS99]

Thanks for all the replies. I ordered a 5 kVA Multiplus 2 and broke the bank. What the hell, inflation being what it is.

 

[John.DS99]

Looking over the logs of my 6500EX results with this string of 10 solar panels, I have decided to go with a 4S setup. My logs show an absolute maximum of 37.5 V per panel with a 375 V maximum value recorded during both hot and cold weather. So 4 * 37.5V = a max of 150, the rating of the multiplus.

When the temperature is below zero, it is night time, I'm not going to limit my system because an excel spreadsheet wants to protect me from -20C weather. I grow oranges where I live. It hasn't hit freezing temperatures in over a year. And if it does it is night time.

And if something breaks, Ill buy a 150/30.

 

[Rocketman]

With the Multiplus get the Cerbo or Cerbo-S (touch if you want a screen around).

The GX device (Cerbo, Venus,CCGX, or roll your own with a Raspberry Pi) when connected up to all the other Victron devices brings everything together, and outputs it to VRM to view on the internet.

it will also do the basic switching of the Multiplus on/off/charge only/invert only and adjust the input amps.

Also check out @Adam De Lay ‘s YouTube on “ignore ac input.

Really cool stuff there!

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Looking over the logs of my 6500EX results with this string of 10 solar panels, I have decided to go with a 4S setup. My logs show an absolute maximum of 37.5 V per panel with a 375 V maximum value recorded during both hot and cold weather. So 4 * 37.5V = a max of 150, the rating of the multiplus.

When the temperature is below zero, it is night time, I'm not going to limit my system because an excel spreadsheet wants to protect me from -20C weather. I grow oranges where I live. It hasn't hit freezing temperatures in over a year. And if it does it is night time.

When is the coldest time in a 24 hour period?

I most cases, right before sunrise. Have you ever watched your panel voltage when it's cold at sunrise? The presence of light gives voltage, the intensity of light gives amps.

And if something breaks, Ill buy a 150/30.

First, a multiplus isn't rated for 150V. A multiplus is an inverter/charger. I'll assume you meant MPPT.

Second, an operational system will never log peak Voc.

150V is a never exceed value. Absolutely, positively do not put 4S 37.5V panels on a 150V MPPT. The only way this is even within sight of being sane is if it NEVER gets below 80°C.

This is about as close to Voc as I've logged:



In this phase of operation, MPPT output is limited to powering loads only - no charging. Thus the MPPT only pulls 1.2A from the panels. The 137.7V measured is about 3V over my Voc, and it's cold today, BUT the sun is heating the cells. You can see about an hour later, right before the current goes op, the voltage has dropped almost 5°C to 133.0V - that's about 10°C heating.

Again, please don't do it.

 

[John.DS99]

Ooops, I think I crossed my threads somehow. I had a thread about MPPTs and string sizes, and somehow got mixed up with this inverter discussion. I think by now you all should know to ignore me.

Exit, stage left.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Ooops, I think I crossed my threads somehow. I had a thread about MPPTs and string sizes, and somehow got mixed up with this inverter discussion. I think by now you all should know to ignore me.

Exit, stage left.

I'm not quitting until I hear you say you won't put more than 3 of those panels in series.

 

[John.DS99]

You are very kind. At the moment, I have 10 panels in a series into a 6500EX from SigSolar. Running fine for almost a year.I am planning to break these into 2 strings, each of which go to a Victron 150/35 MPPT. 4S and 4S into 2 150/35 MPPTs. These will charge a battery bank of 15 KWH @48v. The Victron multiplus 2 5K will convert the battery power to my house and the Sig Solar 6500EX goes to the dumpster. The 2 extra panels will be used in a separate system.

Will you be able to sleep tonight?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

You are very kind. At the moment, I have 10 panels in a series into a 6500EX from SigSolar. Running fine for almost a year.I am planning to break these into 2 strings, each of which go to a Victron 150/35 MPPT. 4S and 4S into 2 150/35 MPPTs. These will charge a battery bank of 15 KWH @48v. The Victron multiplus 2 5K will convert the battery power to my house and the Sig Solar 6500EX goes to the dumpster. The 2 extra panels will be used in a separate system.

Will you be able to sleep tonight?

What you are proposing violates the manufacturer's guidelines. It's against best practices by every imaginable measure.

If I told you that I could stab a knife in my tire, and it will still drive fine, would you maybe try to convince me that it's completely insane to think that?

That's where you are. You are proposing to do something that almost guarantees destroying one or both of your MPPT. You absolutely, positively NEVER exceed Voc. THink you have it warm? I live in Phoenix. I would NEVER consider doing what you propose... because I like to have my shit work and not destroy it deliberately.

You have two options:

1) 2S5P - might not be enough to reliably charge 48V battery.
2) 3S3P - lose a panel, but keep your controller.

Unfortunately, 2X 150/35 make those combinations impractical.

@HighTechLab is a Victron authorized distributor, and has an excellent reputation for technical competence across all things solar.

Dexter... please... talk some sense into this person.

 

[John.DS99]

I appreciate your comments. I am only planning at the moment. It would be a shame to spend $Thousands on Victron equipment, only to conclude it would be best to keep the Chinese AIO and put the Victron boxes into the garage.

 

[ricardocello]

I believe the victron MPPT has a peak voltage detector, which you can see in detailed view in VictronConnect (V max).
I’ve noticed it is always higher than any of the data points seen in the trends. My MPPT is a 250/100.


PS I’m really happy about my peak power of 5500W a few days ago in winter (P max).

 

[Brucey]

You are very kind. At the moment, I have 10 panels in a series into a 6500EX from SigSolar. Running fine for almost a year.I am planning to break these into 2 strings, each of which go to a Victron 150/35 MPPT. 4S and 4S into 2 150/35 MPPTs. These will charge a battery bank of 15 KWH @48v. The Victron multiplus 2 5K will convert the battery power to my house and the Sig Solar 6500EX goes to the dumpster. The 2 extra panels will be used in a separate system.

Will you be able to sleep tonight?

Don't put four 40V panels onto a 150/35. You'll let the magic smoke out when it gets cold. If you get two 150/35s, run 2S2P, (two parallel strings of 2 each i.e 80V and ~20A into each). Two sccs are nice to give you a little redundancy and also gives you some flexibility in terms of orientation of each string.

 

[Brucey]

Actually you could run 3S2P on one and 2P2S on the other to use up all 10 panels. Imo 3S2P is the optimum config for the 150/35.

 

[Q-Dog]

Without doing any math I suspect a single 250/60 would run all 10 of those panels.

Use the online Victron MPPT calculator to find a charge controller that matches the panels you have.

MPPT Calculator - Victron Energy

MPPT Calculator - Victron Energy

www.victronenergy.com

 

[Brucey]

Without doing any math I suspect a single 250/60 would run all 10 of those panels.

Use the online Victron MPPT calculator to find a charge controller that matches the panels you have.

MPPT Calculator - Victron Energy

MPPT Calculator - Victron Energy

www.victronenergy.com

He could at 5S2P but he'd be paying out an $100 extra for that 250V capability. Two $184 150/35s is a pretty sweet spot cost wise. Of course not sure what kind of distance he is from the panels in terms of wire costs.