What are the top 5 gotchas for going totally off grid

[justgary]

Always looking for other FL off-gridders to connect with.

What part of the state? I'm in the western panhandle.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

unsure if this was addressed to me, apologies if not.

have not considered or evaluated that type of fridge as of yet.

that type requires two inputs, is that right? liquid petroleum and electricity.

for my situation, extremely long autonomy without maintenance of any kind is the highest priority. even with a large reserve tank, that type would require occasional refueling right?

kind regards ?️

Our propane refrigerator works for us, but we also have a small portable electric fridge as backup and in case we need to evacuate because of fire (and have the time to pack that kind of item). This discontinued model is also able to cool with electricity but it is not efficient at all; heating a coil to utilize the same system that the propane uses. It did fail, perhaps because we did not have it completely level, but the bouncing during transport to an RV service shop somehow got it to work again! The interior light was run by D cells but was broken before we bought the place. I have a motion sensing light powered by Ni-mH batteries instead.

Curiously, our little electric fridge (also capable of temperatures below freezing in its single chamber) will shut down when our modest lead acid battery pair sags deep enough under load at night, but our Morningstar 300W inverter will keep silently chugging all night with the same batteries. Know that the compressor goes on for a few minutes then stays off for significantly longer.

Even if one is using propane for cooking and supplemental space heating, all of our off-grid neighbors (been here for decades) have transitioned away from propane refrigerators and use local store bought efficient units, increasing their solar energy capabilities if necessary.

We must defrost regularly (maybe twice a year, probably should do it more often). Condensation from the cooling fins in the fridge chamber has a system that drips out the back into a tray where the water evaporates. The propane flame is not vented outside; our house is not air-tight.

 

[zzrider]

What part of the state? I'm in the western panhandle.

Southwest. Inland Charlotte county.

 

[curiouscarbon]

Our propane refrigerator works for us, but we also have a small portable electric fridge as backup and in case we need to evacuate because of fire (and have the time to pack that kind of item). This discontinued model is also able to cool with electricity but it is not efficient at all; heating a coil to utilize the same system that the propane uses. It did fail, perhaps because we did not have it completely level, but the bouncing during transport to an RV service shop somehow got it to work again! The interior light was run by D cells but was broken before we bought the place. I have a motion sensing light powered by Ni-mH batteries instead.

Curiously, our little electric fridge (also capable of temperatures below freezing in its single chamber) will shut down when our modest lead acid battery pair sags deep enough under load at night, but our Morningstar 300W inverter will keep silently chugging all night with the same batteries. Know that the compressor goes on for a few minutes then stays off for significantly longer.

Even if one is using propane for cooking and supplemental space heating, all of our off-grid neighbors (been here for decades) have transitioned away from propane refrigerators and use local store bought efficient units, increasing their solar energy capabilities if necessary.

We must defrost regularly (maybe twice a year, probably should do it more often). Condensation from the cooling fins in the fridge chamber has a system that drips out the back into a tray where the water evaporates. The propane flame is not vented outside; our house is not air-tight.

thank you for these additional insights?

 

[Quattrohead]

I'm another Florida self-build. Curious - are you going to be completely off-grid?

EDIT: just saw on another thread that you are indeed fully off-grid. What stage are you at, and have you had any County issues with being fully off-grid? Always looking for other FL off-gridders to connect with.

Just saw this too, sent you a PM

 

[Quattrohead]

I undersized my battery bank...mostly due to budget issues.

One thing I am extremely grateful for...we didn't do roof mounted PVs!!! I kept the roof integrity intact and the PVs on our ground 2 mounts are accessible as needed.

Adding batteries is not too difficult as you say. I will buy enough UL listed to satisfy my AHJ and then add my DIY batteries after CO.
You know I am still pondering this.
I have 43 Panasonic 330w with the solaredge optimizers and 10kw inverter unit so can 100% put those on the roof.
The pro as I see it is then panels will keep some sun/heat away from the roof, con is they are up on the roof and I am getting older.
I have plenty of space to ground mount too but not sure if we will like the look of that.
I also have another 24 panels 280W and 315W that will be added to the mix after CO and away from nosy eyes !!!

 

[Steve_S]

FUNNY, the OP ran off from this thread after Post #13 when everyone started the whole Pool Pump pile which is NOT THE TOPIC BTW ! Hopefully he looks and picks out what is relevant to THEIR Question and Intentions.

 

[wattmatters]

FUNNY, the OP ran off from this thread after Post #13 when everyone started the whole Pool Pump pile which is NOT THE TOPIC BTW !

Yes it is. This is from the OP:

Cook with induction or propane?
Passive rooftop water heater or several small instant heaters?
Pool pump choice/programming?
Lighting?
Smart home stuff?
Frig/freezer choices?

Discussion on pool pumps and suitability for off-grid systems is right in the wheelhouse for the thread.

 

[NC_hydro]

Don’t spend any extra on energy efficiency, put the money into your power system.

Size your batteries for one nights maximum use only, and use generator power as required.

Worst advice I've ever heard on this forum or anywhere really lol We've been off grid since the mid 1990's and energy efficiency is king.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

Worst advice I've ever heard on this forum or anywhere really lol We've been off grid since the mid 1990's and energy efficiency is king.

It depends on where you are. @toms is in Australia, so that's his experience. Mine is completely different. In other words, there is no general 'right' or 'wrong', it all depends on specific individual use cases, locations and goals.

 

[myles]

We've only been off grid since september, but I made sure to build as efficient a building as I could afford. Air leakage came at 0.6 ACH. so its tight, but then you have to mechanically ventilate, and I have a woodstove as well, so no running the exhuast fan when trying to get a fire started (ask me how i know how hahahah).

Basically the 5 gotchas i experienced:

1. do your research on inverter choices, I was going to use qty 3 growatt 5000 ES, but ended up going with a sol ark 15k and glad I did, sadly I purchased the growatts and auto transformers first before making this decision dope!! Now i have a growatt 5000es battery charger at least for backup. KISS installation, and less standby power consumption for me are worth it right there. keep it as simple as you can.

2. I made the noob error of not calculating in watts, I thought i had 2 weeks of battery backup, in reality its only 3-4 days worth! I have 1120AH storage in 48v configuration, 2500 sq ft house and 4 girls! They like to use things that make heat, hair tools, coffees, leaving lights on etc... COLD CLIMATE, no heat loads are on the solar except DHW when there is excess sun, and i can use the heat pumps for heat but I don't have enough power for that in the cold dark months... (smart load feature on sol ark). I do have to run the generator if we get 4 consecutive cloudy days, i have 10.7 kwh solar, will definitely need to install 5 more kw worth in summer just to combat the cloudy days nov-feb!

3. Look into grants! see whats available to you before you start your project!

4. check your local electrical code to see if there are specifications on where batteries can be stored, wiring for battery does it need to be listed? I returned my battery wire luckily, and purchased anker wire because it was UL listed.

5. Check the prices historical on propane and then make calculation. Here propane is still more cost effective than a whack more batteries and solar power and inverters.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

have a woodstove as well, so no running the exhuast fan when trying to get a fire started

This is one of the reasons you should have an air intake coming directly from outside into your fireplace. The other reason is so you don't blow already heated air from inside out of the chimney.

/cold climate represent

 

[Hedges]

Air leakage came at 0.6 ACH. so its tight, but then you have to mechanically ventilate, and I have a woodstove as well, so no running the exhuast fan when trying to get a fire started (ask me how i know how hahahah).

Would it make sense to reverse direction of ventilation fan (run house at positive pressure rather than negative pressure)?

Basically the 5 gotchas i experienced:

... and 4 girls!

What are the odds? (1/2)^4 = 1/16

They like to use things that make heat, hair tools, coffees, leaving lights on etc...

Can you find a way to get them to dry/curl hair while the sun shines?

5. Check the prices historical on propane and then make calculation. Here propane is still more cost effective than a whack more batteries and solar power and inverters.

We'd like to do thermal storage, some discussions on it but not clear there is an easy solution.

 

[myles]

This is one of the reasons you should have an air intake coming directly from outside into your fireplace. The other reason is so you don't blow already heated air from inside out of the chimney.

/cold climate represent

Yes i do have a fresh air intake ported into the wood stove, I run a blaze king catalytic style, of all the wood burning appliances i've had, this is my favorite, it uses alot less wood and makes way more even heat!

 

[myles]

Would it make sense to reverse direction of ventilation fan (run house at positive pressure rather than negative pressure)?



What are the odds? (1/2)^4 = 1/16




Can you find a way to get them to dry/curl hair while the sun shines?



We'd like to do thermal storage, some discussions on it but not clear there is an easy solution.

I do run the HRV with a positive lean, I have the exhaust fan about 25% less than the intake fan for CFM's. this should also help with door handles and locks from freezing when it gets to minus 35*C here. We maintain a pretty dry 30-35 percent relative humidity at the moment. Our walls are from a local company, so far impressed (https://gsbp.ca/), our house is slab on grade insulated and heated, and the roof deck has spray foam to the underside of it and down the trusses to the walls. its called a hot roof situation. This is where the tightness comes from we have an end to end insulated and air sealed envelope.

Also sadly when we get ready for work/school, and when we get home its dark these days! it will be this way until mid-end jan

 

[wattmatters]

Can you find a way to get them to dry/curl hair while the sun shines?

If they are wannabe climate heroes then you might have a chance to appeal to that but else it's a brave man to take that task on. Good luck!

Every now and then my wife uses something in the evening (like put on the clothes dryer) which makes me go "ugh" but sometimes you just have to "let it go". And it is why I am glad the heat pump appliance we do have is very efficient at what it does, we can get away with that if we need to do just that. If the day is nice the clothesline uses both wind and solar power and costs absolutely nothing to run.

 

[myles]

This might make some people upset. But I didnt go off grid to help the environment. Hydro power was 50K to bring into our area. And solar costed me about 45k all in. Hydro in our area is cheap at the moment and completely the best way to go for 99.9% of applications.

But I like a challenge, and I love the rural living and they were all in to support this to take the kids away from screens and into God's creation, its way better for the mental health of all these days!! Get back to the basics!

 

[myles]

If they are wannabe climate heroes then you might have a chance to appeal to that but else it's a brave man to take that task on. Good luck!

Every now and then my wife uses something in the evening (like put on the clothes dryer) which makes me go "ugh" but sometimes you just have to "let it go". And it is why I am glad the heat pump appliance we do have is very efficient at what it does, we can get away with that if we need to do just that. If the day is nice the clothesline uses both wind and solar power and costs absolutely nothing to run.

and absolutely! There is an ebb and flow to every relationship! If she runs something in the evening on a cloudy stretch, I gently remind them that we need to do that during the day if possible. So far other than the lights (which are LED so minimal effect), they are very energy conscious and actually way more so than I anticipated :D kudos to my loving fam!

 

[curiouscarbon]

Worst advice I've ever heard on this forum or anywhere really lol We've been off grid since the mid 1990's and energy efficiency is king.

in a sunny location with space for photovoltaic panels, the need to power optimize is reduced.

independent of local solar insolation, reducing power/energy required to achieve a given task is laudable.

kind regards

 

[Hedges]

But I like a challenge, and I love the rural living and they were all in to support this to take the kids away from screens and into God's creation, its way better for the mental health of all these days!! Get back to the basics!

Curl hair the way it was meant to be done?