diy solar

diy solar

What Mini-Split did you use, and Why?

Heh... round trip flight included?

Yeah, we'd have to pencil it out but we could make it work. I don't think there are any licensed Mistubishi installers in Alaska, so we'd fly one up from down south. Got a nice cabin they can stay in so long as they don't mind a mile Argo trip. Food, lodging, and great salmon fishing nearby from bay shore or river (or halibut charters).

It would be worth it to us to make sure our install is done right.
 
The Mitsubishi Hyper Heat has a pre-charged line set option too. If you go with a 25 foot set.
Are you sure? The outdoor unit, like most mini-splits, comes loaded with refrigerant, but I have never seen a Mitsubishi (or Daikin or Fujitsu or...) with a charged line set.
 
Mitsubishi units also have electronic power factor correction for their inverter AC to HV DC power supply. An important consideration if running from a battery powered inverter or generator.

You won't find a power factor spec on most manufacturers' mini-split units. They can be as poor as 50-65% particularly on smaller btu units.
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I'm not quite sure what this means. Are you saying that the unit takes in AC power, then converts it to DC power for the head unit, and is not efficient and so the system uses more electricity than it should? The efficiency rating for the unit should factor all that in though, right?

Our unit will be powered by 240V from a Quattro through an AutoTransformer if that matters.
 
Are you sure? The outdoor unit, like most mini-splits, comes loaded with refrigerant, but I have never seen a Mitsubishi (or Daikin or Fujitsu or...) with a charged line set.

I'm never sure about any of this stuff.

Was going off this link which shows:

Refrigerant ChargePre-Charged For: 25'
 
Coefficient of Performance is based on true power. Nothing to do with poor power factor and its effect on your AC source's additional losses due to poor power factor's higher AC current. (CoP = EER / 3.412)

Inverter mini-splits with poor power factor are even worse. The poor power factor is due to their AC to HV DC power supply conversion with high peak current of 3 to 9 times the AC rms current value (high current crest factor). The high current spikes occur at the voltage peaks of AC sinewave.

The peak current spikes drive the PWM L-C filter in inverter crazy causing severe ringing oscillations in the 2 kHz to 4 kHz range of the PWM L-C filter frequency corner roll-off frequency. Reason for most the complaints about flicking lights from inverter powered AC source. The 2-4 kHz ringing impacts the ability of inverter to regulate its 60 Hz output AC voltage.

I believe Victron inverters are the only inverters that actually spec maximum AC load crest factor. They spec a maximum crest factor of 3 near full inverter loading.

Can you dumb this down for me? Are you saying our unit will at the end of the day require more electricity to run it than we might think it would from the COP numbers and efficiency ratings and such?

Or are you saying the frequencies and such are not handled by some inverters and so can damage them over time?

Ours will be powered by a Quattro through a Victron Autotransformer.
 
We have a Mitsubishi Hyper heat unit in a poorly insulated building we own, and it's amazingly good. Way better than our Daikin units, in my opinion. We had it installed by a local company that does a lot of Daikins but had never installed a Mitsubishi (or at least this crew hadn't), and it went fine. I would NOT DIY it. If you need to go that route, I'd look at a Mr. Cool. I think their newest units are rated to sub-zero temps, but admit I haven't checked that specifically.

That's great to hear. Our cabin that we'll be heating is a thousand square feet (including the loft) and we just did a door blower test and had 1.63 ACH at 50P. With the added insulation there is now an echo in there. Design heating load is just under 12K BTU so fingers crossed this unit will keep me from having to cut so much firewood.
 
Can you dumb this down for me? Are you saying our unit will at the end of the day require more electricity to run it than we might think it would from the COP numbers and efficiency ratings and such?

Or are you saying the frequencies and such are not handled by some inverters and so can damage them over time?

Ours will be powered by a Quattro through a Victron Autotransformer.
I can't exactly, but I know some heat pumps work by being on or off (duh...) and other fancier ones work at various levels. They can ramp up and start slow. The on/off variety tend to have a starting surge current that is quite high. I assume this messes with the efficiency to a noticable degree, but I've couldn't describe the physics going on in the compressor.

It feels like an unfortunate accident for us solar nerds, because these variable ones are often called, "DC inverter compressors" if I'm not mistaken, which typically doesn't mean they can be run directly from DC direct from solar (like some minisplits can, ie EG4). But I notice a lot also have DC fans as well, which can be ramped up and down and can alter efficiency.

Someone correct me if I'm off base on any of this.
 
Mini-splits use HV DC to run a three-phase AC inverter that can vary its frequency output to vary the rpm's of three phase AC motor (compressor and fan).

Only reason for needing the high voltage DC is to power the three-phase AC inverter.

Mini-split usually have lower EER ratings than conventional air conditioners because EER rating is at maximum btu output which is bad for mini-splits due to the additional three-phase inverter power loss of about 10% at maximum power.

A mini-split too small for area, running near maximum btu most of the time, will consume more power than a conventional air conditioner of same maximum btu rating.
 
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Apparently the Mitsubishi Hyper Heat units with cold climate package use 200W, even if the unit is off, to heat the crankcase or pan and to keep fluids warm. There is some question of whether it only does this at ambient temps of 36F and below, or whether it does this at all times. Would be annoying to be losing 4.8KW a day on a 40F day...
 
Apparently the Mitsubishi Hyper Heat units with cold climate package use 200W, even if the unit is off, to heat the crankcase or pan and to keep fluids warm. There is some question of whether it only does this at ambient temps of 36F and below, or whether it does this at all times. Would be annoying to be losing 4.8KW a day on a 40F day...
Or an 80*F day! It must turn off at some point
 
I'm never sure about any of this stuff.

Was going off this link which shows:

Refrigerant ChargePre-Charged For: 25'
Okay. They mean the outside unit comes loaded with refrigerant, not the line set. In fact, most mini-splits don't come with a line set; we buy the copper lines, a 14/4 cable that connects the inside and outside units, as well as a few other odds and ends separately.

Units labelled as DIY, such as Mr Cool, typically include that stuff. The lines sets that are included already have refrigerant in the lines, so no need to apply a vacuum.
 
Okay. They mean the outside unit comes loaded with refrigerant, not the line set. In fact, most mini-splits don't come with a line set; we buy the copper lines, a 14/4 cable that connects the inside and outside units, as well as a few other odds and ends separately.

Units labelled as DIY, such as Mr Cool, typically include that stuff. The lines sets that are included already have refrigerant in the lines, so no need to apply a vacuum.
Great to know, thanks!
 
Is there any downside to the pre filled lines, DIY, that come with MrCool?

Are the units just as good as the pro installed?
 
Is there any downside to the pre filled lines, DIY, that come with MrCool?

Are the units just as good as the pro installed?
Before I bought my Senville Aura Arctic 24k, I considered the the Mr Cool DIY but you can’t custom fit the line sets and if you look at videos many have excess lineset coiled up behind or underneath. Just don’t think it looks professional. A few hundred dollars in tools allowed me to do a custom fit install which looks great and still cheaper than DIY series. Nevermind the condensation line in this pic, it’s going to be routed under the deck via PVC to run down the slope. Other benefit is I have all the tools to do another one which will be cheaper to install.
 

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Okay. They mean the outside unit comes loaded with refrigerant, not the line set. In fact, most mini-splits don't come with a line set; we buy the copper lines, a 14/4 cable that connects the inside and outside units, as well as a few other odds and ends separately.

Units labelled as DIY, such as Mr Cool, typically include that stuff. The lines sets that are included already have refrigerant in the lines, so no need to apply a vacuum.
You don’t have to add refrigerant if the line set is under 25ft long. The outside unit comes with enough refrigerant to filll up to a 25’ line set. For my 24k pioneer it was 16ft.
 
Is there any downside to the pre filled lines, DIY, that come with MrCool?

Are the units just as good as the pro installed?
Although the pre-refrigerant gas filled lines are a concern, the inside unit is more of a concern if shipped in a hot environment that raises the pressure on port sealing disks. There is a lot more refrigerant gas in the evaporator to expand at high temps during shipping.

Pre-gas only charged lines and evaporator are vacuumed at factory and put under a moderate refrigerant gas pressure to keep them from being contaminated from outside air.

Personally, I think you are better off buying a cheap $150 two-stage vacuum pump instead of relying on pre-gas charged lines.

Once you release the refrigerant load from outside compressor unit you are committed. If you have a flare leak at that point you are going to lose the whole refrigerant load unless you can get someone with a recovery machine quickly to recover the refrigerant before too much leaks out. That process will likely cost you much more than a vacuum pump.

Flare leaks are number one cause of mini-split failures. The factory flares are often poor quality. I always cut the factory flare off and re-flare the tubing myself with an eccentric flaring tool that makes a smoother flare surface. It also allows you to adjust lines to proper length for your install instead of dealing with the excess stock lines length.
 
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Apparently the Mitsubishi Hyper Heat units with cold climate package use 200W, even if the unit is off, to heat the crankcase or pan and to keep fluids warm. There is some question of whether it only does this at ambient temps of 36F and below, or whether it does this at all times. Would be annoying to be losing 4.8KW a day on a 40F day...
Our Mitsubishi hyper heat unit NOT do that, and I'd be mad as a hornet if it did. Perhaps it doesn't have the cold climate package, but it operates just fine here in Maine. I think that heater turns itself on and off as needed. I have an Emporia Vue electricity monitor in that building, and often see that unit consuming only 14 watts of power, which I assume is used to keep the wifi dongle and IR receiver active. Even when running, I often see it down around 200 watts.
 
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On heat pump units there is heating band around the bottom of compressor and some have a heater element around the bottom base of unit to prevent ice buildup that would clog the defrost water drainage out holes in bottom of unit.

I can see possible 200 watts for the bottom base heater element but that should only come on if freezing temp detected during defrost cycle.

The compressor band heater must preheat the compressor base to ensure there is no liquid refrigerant in bottom of compressor at cold temps that will burst into a mild explosion of refrigerant gas when compressor comes on and drops pressure below refrigerant evaporation point at cold temps. It can blow a sudden large volume of oil, liquid refrigerant and refrigerant gas into compressor motor and compression chamber of compressor possibly damaging compressor. It is called 'slugging the compressor'.

The compressor band heater must come on and warm up any standing liquid refrigerant in bottom of compressor to gaseous state before compressor is allowed to start up. There are two choices, always keep it warm with possibly high ON duty cycle for compressor heater band or turn it on a bit before starting compressor, requiring a wait delay for compressor to warm up. When oil sump temp is finally warmed up it allows compressor to start. It can take a delay time of 15-30 minutes if latter approach is used. Most user don't like the delay in starting the heating inside house.

Compressor bottom heater band usually only consumes 20-50 watt. Once the unit has been running the compressor stays fairly warm so heating band does not need to come on.

Miini-Split outdoor unit heating element.jpg
 
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Our Mitsubishi hyper heat unit NOT do that, and I'd be mad as a hornet if it did. Perhaps it doesn't have the cold climate package, but it operates just fine here in Maine. I think that heater turns itself on and off as needed. I have an Emporia Vue electricity monitor in that building, and often see that unit consuming only 14 watts of power, which I assume is used to keep the wifi dongle and IR receiver active. Even when running, I often see it down around 200 watts.

This guy's video is about three years old, the comments have some people claiming the same 200W panel draw at all times. Maybe it has been fixed since then or maybe this guy did his testing at 36F or colder and didn't realize that draw shuts off above that. We went to talk to a dealer recently and they're going to look into this for us, or so they claim. We'll see if they actually get back to us.

About 15:30 into this video he does his power test:

 
Late to the party.
I chose the Hotspot 48vdc 12k btu.
It made the most sense for me. Because I already have a system and batteries. I didn't need to increase any part of my system to accommodate the mini split. Just connect it to the battery bank and go.
I will be installing more of the same units, later in the build.

Thanks - I have been watching them for some time. Wondered about integrating them into a van build.

 
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