What to tell Beginners that approach you about solar

[OffGridForGood]

Since putting up my PV panels, I have had three different people approach me for 'solar advice'. Two are neighbours and the other was someone who was visiting and saw the PV panels, so this lead to a discussion. On one hand it is a fun topic and who wouldn't want to show off their system during a nice sunny afternoon when everything is working well. On the other, solar is 'not for eveyone' can be a steap learning curve, and can be rather expensive, especially if they can't do much of the work themselves.
From my experiences with these three people, I made a short list of what a small med and larger system would be able to power & cost (approx) since for many people, the cost is the most important question. For some, the price point is the end of the discussion, even for a small system. For others it leads to questions about 'can you get started small/modular later adding as you can afford to expand' Since starting small, and expanding over a few years is exactly what I did, this was an easy discussion.
My most recent 'consult' lead to the guy realizing that his hope that he could build a huge system that would take him completely off grid forever at a price point less than just the PV modules will actually cost, felt a bit like dashing his dreams. But he has a young family and lots of bills (ie mortgage, car payment, truck payment) and is not really in a position to layout $10-20K for a large system. In the end he decided a small portable system they can use for camping that can also attach to his garage for some LED lights and a few small tools would be the way to go for now. I would say he will be hooked soon enough.
What do you guys tell peolple when they ask you about solar? - And yes, I recommended all of them join the DIY Solar Power forum and spend time reading to gain a basic understanding.

 

[Rednecktek]

I usually go for an overview of small vs medium vs large ststems, then give them this forum and tell them to search for my Blurb and read a LOT.

It is kinda depressing when people realize just how much solar DOESN'T do.

 

[Mattb4]

'What do you guys tell people when they ask you about solar?"

I find that most people are unable to understand any explanations I give them. So I simply say, "You need to do the math to see if it will work for you." That discourages them from asking anything more.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Well Mattb I guess you won't be getting the DIYSolar Ambassador job this year...LOL!

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Since putting up my PV panels, I have had three different people approach me for 'solar advice'. Two are neighbours and the other was someone who was visiting and saw the PV panels, so this lead to a discussion. On one hand it is a fun topic and who wouldn't want to show off their system during a nice sunny afternoon when everything is working well. On the other, solar is 'not for eveyone' can be a steap learning curve, and can be rather expensive, especially if they can't do much of the work themselves.
From my experiences with these three people, I made a short list of what a small med and larger system would be able to power & cost (approx) since for many people, the cost is the most important question. For some, the price point is the end of the discussion, even for a small system. For others it leads to questions about 'can you get started small/modular later adding as you can afford to expand' Since starting small, and expanding over a few years is exactly what I did, this was an easy discussion.
My most recent 'consult' lead to the guy realizing that his hope that he could build a huge system that would take him completely off grid forever at a price point less than just the PV modules will actually cost, felt a bit like dashing his dreams. But he has a young family and lots of bills (ie mortgage, car payment, truck payment) and is not really in a position to layout $10-20K for a large system. In the end he decided a small portable system they can use for camping that can also attach to his garage for some LED lights and a few small tools would be the way to go for now. I would say he will be hooked soon enough.
What do you guys tell peolple when they ask you about solar? - And yes, I recommended all of them join the DIY Solar Power forum and spend time reading to gain a basic understanding.

Don’t do it!! It’s a terrible addiction! ?

 

[John Frum]

My most recent 'consult' lead to the guy realizing that his hope that he could build a huge system that would take him completely off grid forever at a price point less than just the PV modules will actually cost, felt a bit like dashing his dreams.

It may feel that way, but its ultimately a kindness.

 

[John Frum]

I estimate that I've seen hundreds of folks come on here with an initial plan to power their electric 5 ton AC, oven, water heater, dryer and pool pump.
They also want 4 days of battery autonomy.
Very few of them had the wallet to proceed with the initial plan.

 

[mvonw]

I tell them that I’m a moron and if they listen to me then they get what they deserve. Then I proceed to help them.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Eveyone of these people started their conversation with: Since you're an "expert" in Solar, I wanted to ask...But I cut them off right there: "I am no expert" but I can tell what I know so far.
Yeah, "it is a kindness" it is a necessary step waking people from a dream, and showing them the bitter reality of day. I can tell they Want to believe solar is easy, and cheap, and can be done in a couple of weekends.
Yeah, "It is a terrible addiction" (I would add, a terrible Expensive addiction perhaps) also not far from the truth.
I have learned a lot with pursuing solar, and am very happy with the results. It has opened up some new insights and motivated me towards Iotawatt, solarassistant and my first EV. Like a lot of things in life, it is a jouney not a destination.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

Most people that ask me do so because they want power at their summer cottage. I usually give them a prototype of something I'm building. This gives them an idea of what's needed, and gives me feedback I need. If they decide to go with a system, I'm happy to point out the numbers and run through it with them to see if it makes sense.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Most people that ask me do so because they want power at their summer cottage. I usually give them a prototype of something I'm building. This gives them an idea of what's needed, and gives me feedback I need. If they decide to go with a system, I'm happy to point out the numbers and run through it with them to see if it makes sense.

And that is why you're an Admin, and Matt is not! LOL - sorry Matt, couldn't resist the temptation.
I think it is a good point, we out on the Bleeding-Edge of this new tech, (sorry forgot who I stole that Bleeding-Edge from, so can't give proper credit!), as I was saying: we the forerunners on the DIY Solar energy transistion, the on-site-energy-Generation, collectively have the potential to have huge influence. Imagine 60,000 members (and how many non-members on this forum) each influence 10 others, who influence 10 more, yeah.
I am thinking of some standard designs for starting out, something that is good quality, and not so expensive that might turn people away. I like UNAP's site, and target audience, good for you. You are a Solar Embassador! {maybe next Year Mattb!}

 

[mvonw]

Most people that ask me do so because they want power at their summer cottage. I usually give them a prototype of something I'm building. This gives them an idea of what's needed, and gives me feedback I need. If they decide to go with a system, I'm happy to point out the numbers and run through it with them to see if it makes sense.

That’s where I started my solar journey. Wanting solar at my (very) off grid cabin. I quickly found out that doing it “right” was not going to be cheap, if I wanted it to handle a deep well pump and tough winters and be reliable.

When I tell a lot of people what I spent, they quickly lose interest.

 

[Rednecktek]

Imagine 60,000 members (and how many non-members on this forum) each influence 10 others, who influence 10 more, yeah.

Sssooo... we're a Ponzi scheme?

 

[OffGridForGood]

I have been using three examples as a guide for people,
1. At the lower end of complexity and not too bad for cost, are the portable units (Bluetti, Jackery, Inergy types) and these are the easist for newbies to understand. 300Wh to 2kWh range (about) cost varies with capacity, $500-2500+ range cost, not really scalable, but for many people the idea that they can load it up and go camping with it - and thus use electronics - is a big plus.
2. Small AIO unit - I use the MPP2724 as the example here, since I own one for my RV and greenhouse so I can show one. It has plugs right on the side, connects to a 24v battery (or two 12v in series) simply, and has MC-4 connections right on the unit - hard to be simpler. But Can not be paralleled up for expansion, and is limited to about two PV panels. Good for a small RV or for a sauna or out building. If they use LA batteries, this can be pretty affordable, about $600 for the AIO maybe 200-400 range for PV or less if the have access to used PV.
3. Entry level Stationary set into a garage: MPP 6048 will give them 120 and 240 in a single unit, connect some PV and wire a dedicated 120/240 panel with some outlets, and they are good to get started for $5-7K depending on how many PV panels, and batteries they use. The MPP manual recommends at least 200Ah of 48vDC for this unit as a minium $3,000 just for the batteries.
4. We don't ever get to level four, but if they asked, I would suggest a larger 13kW system that has three days running autonomy on batteries, and 7kW arrary tiltable for our northern latitude will be a $13-20K-ish system by the time they have all the proper disconnects, wire, fuses, cabinets, etc. At this level, things like factory batteries vs DIY batteries will be a huge cost difference, and that would mean someone comfortable to do a DIY battery, and comfortable with the Alibaba cell purchase experience - I call 'Pay & Pray'.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Sssooo... we're a Ponzi scheme?

Well if the top of the pyramid got a buck for each conversion below them, and each level added another buck, then YES!
But I am pretty sure, that is not the motivation for most here.

 

[Ekard]

Tell them to start small. Get a Bluetti and a couple of cheap solar panels. Use it camping, or to run some power tools for an outdoor project. This is how one begins to have an understanding of the capabilities and limitations of solar systems.

If that works for them, have them use the same cheap panels, get a cheap 20 amp PWM controller, and a cheap Walmart FLA deep cycle battery to put some 12 volt lighting in their shed or enclosed utility trailer. If they like that, tell them to tack on a cheap 500 watt modified sine wave inverter to run their laptop of small TV in their shop/trailer. A cheapy little system like this can be built for less than $500 including the couple of cheap solar panels, and requires no special crimping tools or super heavy cables.

If the budget system doesn't scare them away, then set them to designing a small, but professional looking system for their shed/trailer/cabin/whatever with better quality components. Hopefully they've begun to understand electricity pretty well. Make them diagram the system to the nth degree. Then come up with the parts list from their detailed schematic. How do they like the idea of a couple of thousand dollars for a professional quality 2Kw/hr system? If they go for it, then they're hooked.

 

[timselectric]

"Hold my beer, and watch this shit"


But seriously, I just answer whatever questions they have. Solar tends to promote itself.

 

[MrM1]

Most people I encounter think you plug in 10-20 solar panels into your electrical service and turn on your toaster. They think , "I can get used panels on swip-swap for $40 each, how much can it be "

The rest of the conversation is pretty eye opening.

 

[OzSolar]

I ask people a few questions centered around on our low utility rates (7 to 13 cents) and that the only incentive we have is the federal tax credit. YMMV.

1- Have you daydreamed about doing solar since you first read about it in Mother News (or similar) 25 years ago? AKA: Do you think solar is cool?

2- Is this your forever house? In spite of what you've been told you, it's questionable how much, if any, value it will add to your house (to someone one else).

3- Do you owe money on your vehicles, have any credit card debt and maxing out your retirement each year? Those are much better places to put money.

Most of the time, after they get over the metaphorical bucket of cold water, I just dumped on them they reply with "oh wow that all makes sense... thank you...that was nothing like what the salesman told me."

 

[HighTechLab]

I point out that there are 2 types of solar

type 1 has a door-door salesperson; they are actually using the solar panels to sell you a loan and have it built up to where any profits the system could produce go to their interest payment. This gives solar a bad reputation.

type 2 is actually worth it and can even do some cool things like have battery backup.

Not getting sucked into the type 1 is difficult because type 1 has the best liars in the industry.

It's fun to me when the door-door guys knock at my house.