diy solar

diy solar

Who gets free energy from the grid (or even paid to consume)?

wattmatters

Solar Wizard
Joined
Apr 16, 2021
Messages
3,884
Location
NSW, Australia
In some places it is becoming more common for grid utility suppliers to offer free energy periods to household customers. I am curious as the experience of forum members around the world as to whether/where this might also be occurring.

Typically it is tied to an over supply of energy generation during particular times of day, or days of the week when wholesale electricity prices regularly fall into negative territory.

Here in the eastern states of Australia we are now seeing the emergence of retailers offering plans with free energy periods. One offers free energy between the hours of 11AM to 2PM every day. Another between 12-2PM on weekends. I am on this latter plan.

There are of course also options to purchase energy tied to the wholesale price directly. That's a much riskier proposition as there is both significant up and downsides to that approach. If you can store enough energy to consume later and automate loads to avoid the peak price periods, then it can work very well. If the wholesale price is negative enough to cover the distribution fees then you can be credited for consuming energy. But beware of price peaks.

Here this is being driven by the wholesale price of energy often going negative during the middle of the day caused by the large amount of solar PV on the grid. Power distribution companies (who run the poles and wires but do not retail energy to consumers) are also introducing "solar soaker" tariff structures for energy retailers - with cheap daytime service rates for electricity distribution, so this trend is likely to continue for a while yet.

There may be some locations with free energy overnight, perhaps under utilised nuclear power stations want the load. But here it is being driven by the impact of solar PV, not least of which is rooftop PV which generates more energy than does grid scale PV.

Naturally in order to consume free energy from the grid, you need first to chew up your own grid-tied generation (or turn it off).

As an example, yesterday the weather here was pretty poor, so my own generation was lousy. But I still get free grid energy between 12-2PM. I have some load automations set up to make the most of it. This was the result:

Screen Shot 2024-06-01 at 2.04.57 pm.png

Automations commence charging the off-grid battery and the EV at its maximum rate (until it had reached the set state of charge), and I switched the water heater over to full power "heat now" mode instead of its normal mode which just uses available excess PV energy. Washing machine and dishwasher running too (they heat their own water).

I ended up importing 27 kWh in that time.

Is this the future, or just a temporary scenario during the energy transition to low carbon energy sources?

One thing which springs to mind is this sort of tariff structure makes solar PV a bit less appealing - you might instead consider going battery only, provided you can power the loads you need to power. Whether 3 hours is long enough to capture enough energy for the rest of the day is the question I guess.

Curious to hear what might be the situation in your part of the world.
 
In the Good 'Ol US of A, land of Free Enterprise Run Amuck?

Never.

It's antithetical to the corrupt business model here. Can't have the unwashed masses getting something for nothing...

I applaud what's going on in your neck of the woods with the energy retailers. Good show.

And kudos to you for going the extra mile (km) with your automation. Excellent.
 
The utilities try to screw the consumer whenever they can. We rearrange our loads in response.
 
I don't have a free period, although I have heard of such a thing from a few others in bigger centres. In my area we can opt into a plan that provides a super low rate 11:00PM to 7:00AM daily of only 2.8cents/kWh (Canadian Dollar) likely lower than my cost of solar in the short term.
In the first year I ran the inverters with battery only - no PV using low overnight ToU rates for charging.
It is simple because no PV needed, but doesn't help you during a grid outage period.
 
Free nights and weekends exist in some parts of my state -Texas. If a person designs it right they can charge from the grid for free And not pull anything from grid during peak hours.

Of course if this caught on the free times would cease and eventually everyone would just disconnect from the grid. It's inevitable
 
Free nights and weekends exist in some parts of my state -Texas. If a person designs it right they can charge from the grid for free And not pull anything from grid during peak hours.

Of course if this caught on the free times would cease and eventually everyone would just disconnect from the grid. It's inevitable
I've looked into the plans in my area of Texas . So far I've found ones that want .27 to .30 per kwh plus delivery fees for daytime hours and you only pay the "delivery" fees of something like .047 per kwh for 9pm to 7am. So technically still not free, although I've heard some people say the delivery fees are waived after hours, but when I asked specifically about the delivery fees, they said "no soup for you".
 
I've looked into the plans in my area of Texas . So far I've found ones that want .27 to .30 per kwh plus delivery fees for daytime hours and you only pay the "delivery" fees of something like .047 per kwh for 9pm to 7am. So technically still not free, although I've heard some people say the delivery fees are waived after hours, but when I asked specifically about the delivery fees, they said "no soup for you".
Yeah if there is still a delivery fee then it's probably not worth it.
 
Yeah if there is still a delivery fee then it's probably not worth it.
It certainly makes the payback not as nice for time shifting.

Considering the prices that we have on the regular plans now though, it's still possibly worth doing.

Prices have gone up from .10 kwh with no rebates or other tricks to .16-.19 per kwh with "rebates" at 1000 and 2000 kwh to bring it back down to .10 to .11 per kwh. So the after hours rates are least half the normal plans day time rates, it's just the pumped up day time rates on the free nights plans are really high in comparison.. so you have to not use it during the day.
 
I've looked into the plans in my area of Texas . So far I've found ones that want .27 to .30 per kwh plus delivery fees for daytime hours and you only pay the "delivery" fees of something like .047 per kwh for 9pm to 7am. So technically still not free, although I've heard some people say the delivery fees are waived after hours, but when I asked specifically about the delivery fees, they said "no soup for you".
Yeah if there is still a delivery fee then it's probably not worth it.

If you pay $0.047/kWh for "free" power and about another $0.05/kWh to store it in a PowerPro or similar battery (inverter not included in this estimate), you're way ahead of $0.27 to $0.30 (assuming that's the rate you otherwise pay.)

It certainly makes the payback not as nice for time shifting.

Considering the prices that we have on the regular plans now though, it's still possibly worth doing.

Prices have gone up from .10 kwh with no rebates or other tricks to .16-.19 per kwh with "rebates" at 1000 and 2000 kwh to bring it back down to .10 to .11 per kwh. So the after hours rates are least half the normal plans day time rates, it's just the pumped up day time rates on the free nights plans are really high in comparison.. so you have to not use it during the day.

Oh, is your rate otherwise $0.16 to $0.19, if not on a special plan?
Can't take the risk of investing in an expensive battery, where 16 years operation is required to make it $0.05/kWh.

In the Good 'Ol US of A, land of Free Enterprise Run Amuck?

Never.

Except when PG&E paid Arizona to take our unwanted electricity.
(maybe it was a sham sale to set an apparent market value?)
 
If you pay $0.047/kWh for "free" power and about another $0.05/kWh to store it in a PowerPro or similar battery (inverter not included in this estimate), you're way ahead of $0.27 to $0.30 (assuming that's the rate you otherwise pay.)



Oh, is your rate otherwise $0.16 to $0.19, if not on a special plan?
Can't take the risk of investing in an expensive battery, where 16 years operation is required to make it $0.05/kWh.



Except when PG&E paid Arizona to take our unwanted electricity.
(maybe it was a sham sale to set an apparent market value?)
Correct.. possibly not worth investing. But, the price increased from .10 to .16-.19 in one year. Who knows what it will increase to next year. Once purchased, the batteries and solar panels, etc.. are bought and paid for. You also have to consider general grid reliability in Texas lately. I don't trust it one bit. The batteries are useful in and of themselves.
 
Correct.. possibly not worth investing. But, the price increased from .10 to .16-.19 in one year. Who knows what it will increase to next year. Once purchased, the batteries and solar panels, etc.. are bought and paid for. You also have to consider general grid reliability in Texas lately. I don't trust it one bit. The batteries are useful in and of themselves.
...And its Fun ! :ROFLMAO:
 
Free nights and weekends exist in some parts of my state -Texas. If a person designs it right they can charge from the grid for free And not pull anything from grid during peak hours.

Of course if this caught on the free times would cease and eventually everyone would just disconnect from the grid. It's inevitable
GregTR in Texas said he had a contract that was free electricity at night.
 
GregTR in Texas said he had a contract that was free electricity at night.
@GregTR Any possibility of showing us one of the parts of your bills showing completely free night time rates (no distribution charges)?
 
Good old Australia, where poor people pay for rich people’s electricity.
 
Good old Australia, where poor people pay for rich people’s electricity.
You don't need to be wealthy to sign up for a plan with free energy periods. The plan with free energy 11AM-2PM every day is open to anyone with a smart meter.
 
You don't need to be wealthy to sign up for a plan with free energy periods. The plan with free energy 11AM-2PM every day is open to anyone with a smart meter.
3 hours huh? That's gonna take a big charger and a big battery to time shift that.
 
3 hours huh? That's gonna take a big charger and a big battery to time shift that.
Sure, however a timer / contactor for the water heater is pretty cheap way to store 10+ kWh. And you can at least run some other things during that time as well. Maybe do some baking, or some washing.
 
Sure, however a timer / contactor for the water heater is pretty cheap way to store 10+ kWh. And you can at least run some other things during that time as well. Maybe do some baking, or some washing.
If it's free, with no increase in the rates for the remaining hours, I certainly wouldn't complain.
 
Back
Top