Who here has the best dump load management system going on? (revisited)

[kolek]

No, I use a similar Triac based system and you can feed any AC resistive load which in my case is a 3kw immersion heater but it can also feed two 3kw loads if you add a second Triac.

Ok, that's interesting, but it doesn't answer my question. Say I want to divert power to cycle my AC. That device is not gonna do it. You'd need to create a robot with solenoid controlled fingers to physically push the buttons on the AC's remote control. Most household appliances aren't expecting to be hooked up to and controlled by a Triac.

My question is, when you divert I assume you need to start with a primitive device that turns on when you apply electricity and turns off when you remove electricity, with none of the typical user interface you typically find on household appliances?

 

[Bananaman321]

Ok, that's interesting, but it doesn't answer my question. Say I want to divert power to cycle my AC. That device is not gonna do it. You'd need to create a robot with solenoid controlled fingers to physically push the buttons on the AC's remote control. Most household appliances aren't expecting to be hooked up to and controlled by a Triac.

My question is, when you divert I assume you need to start with a primitive device that turns on when you apply electricity and turns off when you remove electricity, with none of the typical user interface you typically find on household appliances?

LuxPower inverter units that have the smart load function will complete this task. You can power an air conditioner through the Gen. port if it's thermostat is battery powered and in the on position when the smart load is activated the evap.blower will energize and the condenser will start within 3-5 minutes due to the restart delay built into to the board that prevents short cycling.

Other hybrid models have this feature as well such as NHX-10kw. Sorry no robot
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[robby]

I think the OP needs to be more specific in what he is trying to do.
The Sol-Ark Inverters will turn on the Dump Load if the Battery reaches xx% SOC and the PV is above xxx Watts of power.
If the Battery drops down below another set point it will stop the Dump Load.

As for AC units you need to use a WiFi enabled IR transmitter that can control your AC unit.
I have one on mine and I just remotely turn an AC on if the Batteries are full and the Heater has already cycled.
Many days there is enough PV to Run the AC while the Heater is running and continue on until about 6pm.
The AC control could probably be automated fairly easily using a Raspberry Pi communicating to Solar Assistant and an IR controller.

Is this what you are trying to do or is it something even more complicated?

 

[kolek]

Is this what you are trying to do or is it something even more complicated?

Actually you perfectly answered my question.

The Sol-Ark Inverters will turn on the Dump Load if the Battery reaches xx% SOC and the PV is above xxx Watts of power.

Is that exclusive to Sol-Ark? I checked the menus on the Deye (who makes Sol-Ark) and didn't see any references to that functionality in the manual. There is "backup load" connection so maybe it's possible to dump to that but I don't see any references about it.

 

[kommando]

My question is, when you divert I assume you need to start with a primitive device that turns on when you apply electricity and turns off when you remove electricity, with none of the typical user interface you typically find on household appliances?

But then you are committed to using the energy for that appliance cycle eg a dishwasher, but that's just as likely to consume more than the surplus than less. Hence the need to restrict excess diversion to a resistive load that can be modulated.

What you are looking for needs a lot of programming and including good solar forecast to know if enough surplus will be generated for the appliance cycle. So if the forecast is bad then you have to ignore any short term surplus as once the dishwasher starts you are committed.

KISS applies here.

 

[robby]

Actually you perfectly answered my question.

Is that exclusive to Sol-Ark? I checked the menus on the Deye (who makes Sol-Ark) and didn't see any references to that functionality in the manual. There is "backup load" connection so maybe it's possible to dump to that but I don't see any references about it.

I don’t know about Deye but in the Sol-Ark is called Smart Load and is in the inverter settings menu.

 

[Bananaman321]

I don’t know about Deye but in the Sol-Ark is called Smart Load and is in the inverter settings menu.

Same with the EG4 18 kpv and 12 KPV
Smart load that's what it's called it's in the settings menu

 

[kolek]

I don’t know about Deye but in the Sol-Ark is called Smart Load and is in the inverter settings menu.

Found the Smart Load setting in Gen menu. Thanks much for pointing that out. What a pleasant surprise that Deye has this feature built in. I'm in a good mood now.

 

[wpns]

Take our AC units for example. Only way to switch them on or off is by remote control. There's no interface for a relay or contactor to cycle them on and off.

I use Shelly Pro 1 PM boxes to turn the power to my HVAC splits on and off, but there are other WiFi and wired interfaces available, some of them for crazy amounts of money. Obviously there's a wide range of discretionary loads from heaters that _can_ turn on and off by the millisecond to HVAC units which take 10 minutes to start running after power is restored (and probably shouldn't be power-cycled too often).

 

[kolek]

As for AC units you need to use a WiFi enabled IR transmitter that can control your AC unit.
I have one on mine and I just remotely turn an AC on if the Batteries are full and the Heater has already cycled.

Are you using a Sol-Ark or other Deye-manufactured inverter?
Can you explain in a little more detail how you use and control the WiFi enabled IR transmitter?
Basically I'd like to start additional mini-split AC units around the house when the "smart load" feature is triggered.
Where I'm fuzzy is how you get the Deye talking to the IR transmitter.

 

[SeaGal]

Sorry for the noob question but what I always wonder about these systems is modern electronics usually don't just power on and off based on a simple power switch.

I think @kommando has already answered your question, but the Triac does burst mode switching many times a second on a purely resistive load - a 3kW immersion heater.

 

[Crowz]

All you need is :

Home Assistant

Solar Assistant if there isn't a direct Home Assistant plugin for the inverter in question.

IR blaster to control mini splits

Mini splits for heating and cooling.

In home assistant setup automation's like this :
When excess power > needs (load and battery charging) set mini split temp to a power hungry setting via ir blaster

When excess power < needs turn back mini split load via temp change via ir blaster

Its what I do now.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

All you need is :

Home Assistant

Solar Assistant if there isn't a direct Home Assistant plugin for the inverter in question.

IR blaster to control mini splits

Mini splits for heating and cooling.

In home assistant setup automation's like this :
When excess power > needs (load and battery charging) set mini split temp to a power hungry setting via ir blaster

When excess power < needs turn back mini split load via temp change via ir blaster

Its what I do now.

friggin new tech braniac show off....

 

[Crowz]

friggin new tech braniac show off....

The ir blasters are pretty cool.
I use this one :

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZSF46BX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

$25 and added the $9 usb cable for it since it adds temperature and humidity readings via the cable. Pop one in each room and you can control anything you want and you get temp readings in all rooms in your house which I wanted too.

I was using it at first to control a window unit in the bedroom since I wanted it super cold at night and set higher during the day to cut down on power usage. I set it to turn the temp up to 72F at 8am and down to 65F at 10pm.

That tweak alone knocked off nearly 10 kwh a day usage. Then it snowballed from there making automations with them.

 

[ThaiTaffy]

All you need is :

Home Assistant

Solar Assistant if there isn't a direct Home Assistant plugin for the inverter in question.

IR blaster to control mini splits

Mini splits for heating and cooling.

In home assistant setup automation's like this :
When excess power > needs (load and battery charging) set mini split temp to a power hungry setting via ir blaster

When excess power < needs turn back mini split load via temp change via ir blaster

Its what I do now.

Not finding anything about how to verify smart load via the modbus registers for the Deye in the esphome code I have, I'll try find a copy of the original Deye registers hopefully the answer is there.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

The ir blasters are pretty cool.
I use this one :

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZSF46BX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

$25 and added the $9 usb cable for it since it adds temperature and humidity readings via the cable. Pop one in each room and you can control anything you want and you get temp readings in all rooms in your house which I wanted too.

I was using it at first to control a window unit in the bedroom since I wanted it super cold at night and set higher during the day to cut down on power usage. I set it to turn the temp up to 72F at 8am and down to 65F at 10pm.

That tweak alone knocked off nearly 10 kwh a day usage. Then it snowballed from there making automations with them.

thats OK you are one of the Tech Geeks on my list for future pestering once I get this waste oil boiler done. You Thai Taffy and a few others... I really want to totally automate it so I can leave it running even when I am not there. I got the electric dump load side figured out and will detail in my build thread in show and tell when i get that portion done, but the waste oil burner is going to be the difficult one, least I think it will be.

 

[efficientPV]

friggin new tech braniac show off....

I think you might be right. I'm a pretty high tech guy, but most of this wifi gufu stuff is like putting falsies on granny. All this intelligent stuff does is just soak up power all day. There are very simple control methods that are just as effective. All it does is make you addicted to screen porn.

 

[ThaiTaffy]

I think you might be right. I'm a pretty high tech guy, but most of this wifi gufu stuff is like putting falsies on granny. All this intelligent stuff does is just soak up power all day. There are very simple control methods that are just as effective. All it does is make you addicted to screen porn.

Actually I've gone the other way, I just let it do it's thing and probably update once a month and hardly touch it other than that.
The whole idea for me with automating stuff if to have more time with my family and other hobbies, I really don't want to be watching graphs and pressing buttons.

 

[ThaiTaffy]

The ir blasters are pretty cool.
I use this one :

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZSF46BX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

$25 and added the $9 usb cable for it since it adds temperature and humidity readings via the cable. Pop one in each room and you can control anything you want and you get temp readings in all rooms in your house which I wanted too.

I was using it at first to control a window unit in the bedroom since I wanted it super cold at night and set higher during the day to cut down on power usage. I set it to turn the temp up to 72F at 8am and down to 65F at 10pm.

That tweak alone knocked off nearly 10 kwh a day usage. Then it snowballed from there making automations with them.

These are the semi posh version of the ones I'm using(rm4 mini) but mine are about $7 a pop I've recently purchased a few but my original 2 have been flawless going on 6 years now, only pain is programming them I gave up on the new ones I fitted they only have 26,27,28°c,max power and off 5 buttons was plenty.

 

[kolek]

I think @kommando has already answered your question, but the Triac does burst mode switching many times a second on a purely resistive load - a 3kW immersion heater.

Yeah sorry @SeaGal, my knowledge of electronics is far, far below than yours, obviously. Your explanation of your method was also over my head and I checked out your reference link. Too technical for me.

On the other hand I did understand @Crowz explanation of what he's doing and that I would be able to manage I think.

I'm completely new to this topic so there'e many terms I don't understand. Burst mode for example.

According to Wikipedia Burst mode is a generic electronics term referring to any situation in which a device is transmitting data repeatedly without going through all the steps required to transmit each piece of data in a separate transaction. Ok. Still not clear.

Maybe sending an IR transmission to an AC is "burst mode switching" and switching on a big heating element is resistive load switching or something like that? No idea, just guessing.

I understand a heating element is a resistive load.

If your inverter has the "smart load" switching capability, do you still need a Triac? In layman's terms, what role does a Triac play in controlling an external load? Watched a YT video on it, not clear.

Feel free to ignore this message, you're under no obligation to educate me. I just need to become more educated in general on this topic. And like I said, I did understand @Crowz explanation so I'm probably ok. Thank you @SeaGal

 

[kolek]

With the Deye smart load, say it's winter time and you want to warm the house with excess unused PV.

Is it possible just to take a big dumb infrared heater with a simple on/off switch, switch it on so that it's ready to operate, and directly connect that to the smart load port on the Deye? Then when your PV has unused potential the Deye will just dump that extra potential into the heater? Is it that simple?

 

[ThaiTaffy]

One thing I'm wondering with the Deye smart load, is it possible just to take a big dumb infrared heater with a simple on/off switch, switch it on so that it's ready to operate, and directly connect that to the smart load port on the Deye? Then when your PV has unused potential the Deye will just dump that extra potential into the heater? Is it that simple?

As an aside, one video on the topic (I think) said you want to keep the total load on the smart load port under 3500W for a 15K Sol Ark. Is that true and what is the limit on the Deye 8k if anyone knows off the top.

The YT video put out by Deye for smart loads seems like it's focused on the 5yr old budding solar enthusiast I swear I've heard my nieces listening to the same music. But that's essentially the best way to use it heating something with just an on and off switch,the only other way I can see is have nothing connected to it and just using it as a trigger to switch something on via the other load outputs essentially what crowz is likely doing.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

The YT video put out by Deye for smart loads seems like it's focused on the 5yr old budding solar enthusiast I swear I've heard my nieces listening to the same music. But that's essentially the best way to use it heating something with just an on and off switch,the only other way I can see is have nothing connected to it and just using it as a trigger to switch something on via the other load outputs essentially what crowz is likely doing.

I as well.

 

[kolek]

As an aside, one video on the topic (I think) said you want to keep the total load on the smart load port under 3500W for a 15K Sol Ark. Is that true and what is the limit on the Deye 8k if anyone knows off the top.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

With the Deye smart load, say it's winter time and you want to warm the house with excess unused PV.

Is it possible just to take a big dumb infrared heater with a simple on/off switch, switch it on so that it's ready to operate, and directly connect that to the smart load port on the Deye? Then when your PV has unused potential the Deye will just dump that extra potential into the heater? Is it that simple?

As an aside, one video on the topic (I think) said you want to keep the total load on the smart load port under 3500W for a 15K Sol Ark. Is that true and what is the limit on the Deye 8k if anyone knows off the top.

whats the manual say about the smart port? is it a dry contact relay?

the magnum router that parallels my tow inverters has a aux dry contact relay, which can be triggered by damn near any parameter that the inverter monitors, but it is only a dry contact, so you feed power into it and it switches the power off and on.

In my case the dry switch GOES to a 48 vdc relay that turns on the sigineer inverters and also sends power to a dayton DC timed delay relay that turns on a panasonic 12vDC/600vAC relay that then supplies power to the water heating.

Power is only supplied when the battery is at xx.xx voltage, or the other choice is when the battery is above xxx% of charge, my choice on which way to go.
The inverter has its own built in AC out timer so I can set it to only supply power between say when my batteries are normally fully charge at say 1030 and let it run until say 1700 (or later depending upon what the empirical results show), and the inverters shunt will measure battery volts and percentage of charge and then trip the dry contact when the battery voltage has dropped (or SOC percentage) to the level i set. so set it for say 70% and higher, it charges to full by roughly 1000-1030 and the relays are already energized, and the inverters are turned on but they will not supply power until 1030 so the panels will supply their max available and the battery bank will supply when the panels cannot until either the time limit expires, or the shunt says that its below the set point fo avaialble power.