WOW! Absorption fridge vs compressor fridge

[triplethreat]

There are a number of 12v compressor fridges on the market. Check here for some examples. Note that some on that page are 110v so pay attention to the voltage. I bought the 11.4 cu ft model because it was almost a perfect fit replacement for my original 6 cu ft absorption fridge.

I looked at the Everchill 17 cu. ft. model specs and there are several issues that come to mind. First, it is a free standing unit requiring at least 1" of space for ventilation on both sides and the rear. To use as a "free standing" unit would require extensive work on the existing cubicle that the Norcold is installed in. The fact that the Norcold in my Momentum is installed in a slide room means that there is no top venting for the existing fridge. There are two large vent openings at the back side of the fridge...one at the bottom and one at the top of the slide, which is necessary for an absorption fridge installed in a slide...vs. the same fridge not installed in a slide and having a roof vent. 2. The two outside vents would need to be completely closed off in order to keep heat and cold from entering into the compartment, since the Everchill is a free standing unit. 3. The depth of the Everchill is concerning and possibly will not fit in my circumstance. Even if I installed it as far back in the cubicle as possible, and maintained the 1" clearance at the back of the fridge, there would be around 4" of the fridge sticking out the front of the cubicle. In that scenario, when the slide was brought in, the front of the Everchill would make contact with the sink and cabinets in the kitchen that is directly in front of the refrigerator. The existing fridge, the Norcold, comes within about 1 1/2" of that sink/cabinet/countertop, so anything installed that is taking more space than the existing Norcold, will be a fail.

After looking at the space constraints that I have, the JC refrigerator conversion is looking better and better. To me, to only other option if I don't want to live with the terrible performance of the Norcold, is a residential fridge with the dimensions that would work for my space, and then go with the inverter install for being able to use it while traveling. Moving the sink/cabinets/countertop is not an option for me in order to gain more space for the fridge when the slideroom comes in. Going with a smaller fridge is also not an option, as we had the existing fridge really full when we did a one month trip out west this past September.

 

[triplethreat]

Just have my absorption fridge running through my Growatt inverter.

Runs about 30 minutes in a one hour, pretty regular. needs about 350w while doing that at 70F outside.

In my case, it's not so much about power consumption and switching over to an installed Inverter, it a lack of performance issue with the Norcold.....it'e just terrible......propane and 120V operation....and trust me, I've tried both ways of operation and it just sucks...period.

 

[K8MEJ]

Then perhaps you could reconsider installing a small inverter just for the fridge. Then maybe you could use a counter-depth residential fridge? You're on top of things with dimensions so you likely have that sorted. Installing a 1,000 watt inverter close to the batteries and running a 110v AC line to the fridge shouldn't be too difficult (famous last words!). Good luck!

 

[triplethreat]

Then perhaps you could reconsider installing a small inverter just for the fridge. Then maybe you could use a counter-depth residential fridge? You're on top of things with dimensions so you likely have that sorted. Installing a 1,000 watt inverter close to the batteries and running a 110v AC line to the fridge shouldn't be too difficult (famous last words!). Good luck!

I had originally give that some consideration, but doing the JC refrigeration still makes the most sense with the least amount of work/cost for me. It would still involve making cabinetry changes to the existing cubicle that the Norcold is in, blocking off/sealing/insulating the two large outside vents, buying and installing the Inverter and then rewiring the existing 120VAC receptacle that is in the cubicle to be powered by the new inverter. Costwise, the new dual compressor from JC is $1295 plus a $400 fee for them installing it....vs. the cost of a new 120VAC fridge, time and money redoing the cabinet/cubicle and the cost of the new inverter and the wiring changes I would have to make. There are pros and cons to both paths forward, but I still believe that the JC conversion, if it does in fact work as advertised, will be the most cost effective AND with very good results. One thing is for sure....the existing Norcold in it's present configuration and terrible performance will force me to do something to improve it to the point that it is no longer a worry when using it.

 

[eXodus]

In my case, it's not so much about power consumption and switching over to an installed Inverter, it a lack of performance issue with the Norcold.....it'e just terrible......propane and 120V operation....and trust me, I've tried both ways of operation and it just sucks...period.

my Dometic makes plenty of cold - including freezing inside the fridge compartment.

Only needed to add a fan on the outside coils. - without the fan it was terrible. With the fan - excellent.


RV manufacturer are not following the ventilation guidelines when installing absorption fridges.... If they would follow them - no fridges would be installed in a Slide-out. And we are seeing all those Fridge fires in RVs...

 

[triplethreat]

my Dometic makes plenty of cold - including freezing inside the fridge compartment.

Only needed to add a fan on the outside coils. - without the fan it was terrible. With the fan - excellent.


RV manufacturer are not following the ventilation guidelines when installing absorption fridges.... If they would follow them - no fridges would be installed in a Slide-out. And we are seeing all those Fridge fires in RVs...

Unfortunately, ever mod I've done to the Norcold has not really brought it to the performance level that I want. I did the infamous door flap mod, as it was hanging up almost everytime the left door was opened and closed.....though I had it fixed for sure, NOPE. I then added a Titan twin fan kit on the inside of the upper vent to help airflow across the condensor coils/heat exchanger, along with making sure the unit was installed correctly by Grand Design, following the Norcold installation parameters. This unit had it's own thermostat for the two fans and didn't depend on the Norcold temperature sensor to turn them on......Nope again. Then I tried the "Muddypaws" mod where he actually insulates the sensing area of the thermistor away from contact with the fins on the inside cooling fin area. That helped a bit, but not enough. I've finally reached the point that something major is going to be done in order to make a usable refrigerator on the this 44' long house on wheels.

So to summarize, I'm sure that there is no leakage around any of the door seals (fresh food and freezer compartments), none around the door flapper, plenty of ventilation directed across the heat exchanger on the rear of the unit, and the thermistor is performing according to the specs set by the manufacturer. It's like it has a mind of it's own and is going to give me whatever temperatures that it feels like providing, no matter what I do to help it. The very best temperature that I've seen in the freezer compartment was 3 degrees F, unfortunately, that has only happened one time in the history of the fridge. Average freezer compartment temperatures run in the mid teens to low 20s....and that isn't acceptable to me. Fresh food compartment best over temperatures were 32/33 degrees, but that is very seldom and most of the time it will be in the upper30s and lower 40s....again, not acceptable. Run it on propane vs. electric....no noticeable difference. I'm pretty much just over it and very tired of working part time on a damned refrigerator in the camper. I retired a year and a half ago, and this isn't my idea of working part time in retirement....LOL!

 

[eXodus]

. Average freezer compartment temperatures run in the mid teens to low 20s....and that isn't acceptable to me. Fresh food compartment best over temperatures were 32/33 degrees

and there is chance that you just got a bad unit from the factory. You got always that 1% of units which is new and broken out of the box.

Mine is almost 20 years old and still going strong. I know from people in the Vintage RV boards - they have 40-50 year old units which are still performing well. So in it's not the general "Absorption Technology" It's either you got a bad install or a bad unit. They are not very efficient, but also not awful.

But I completely get it when you want to switch to a compressor - my last RV had a compressor fridge - and you don't have to think about that - at all.

 

[triplethreat]

and there is chance that you just got a bad unit from the factory. You got always that 1% of units which is new and broken out of the box.

Mine is almost 20 years old and still going strong. I know from people in the Vintage RV boards - they have 40-50 year old units which are still performing well. So in it's not the general "Absorption Technology" It's either you got a bad install or a bad unit. They are not very efficient, but also not awful.

But I completely get it when you want to switch to a compressor - my last RV had a compressor fridge - and you don't have to think about that - at all.

I guess there is that "possibility" of me just getting a bad one from the factory....except that I am on a couple of different Grand Design user forums, as well as about 6 or 7 Grand Design facebook pages and it is a very common theme that is discussed almost every single day. Lots and lots of Norcold 2118s as well as the 12XX model, and even a few of the other Models that Norcold makes.....and then, once in a while you will see someone post up about their Norcold that is producing 0 degrees in the freezer area and they are having trouble with the fresh food compartment freezing stuff in there. It just doesn't make any sense to me how SOME work pretty well and lots of others are having issues like I have. And I've also read that a lot of the older absorption fridges still work very well and they have never had issues with them being and staying cold.

Unfortunately, sometimes newer stuff isn't made with the same quality of the previous models/versions and companies are always looking to be able to make something newer/fancier/have more consumer appeal.....but many times at the cost of making it a lot cheaper and less dependable....but hey, it looks great, so people buy it. Without a doubt, my large Norcold has been the biggest by far headache I've experienced in my 5 years of RVing. It really is a shame too, because these larger Momentum Toy Haulers are many times $100K plus trailers with refrigerators in them that MSRP for over $4000.....and they are just not panning out to be a quality product many times for many customers. I truly wish I had a dollar for every single time I've seen posted on the Grand Design forums and facebook pages with someone complaining about their Norcold and or Dometic fridges. And the Norcold and Dometics are used in many, many different brands of RV besides the Grand Design and there are lots of complaints from those also about the "not cooling properly" issue.

Anyway, hopefully in the springtime, I will be making that trip to Shipshewana and getting rid of my issues with the Norcold. I've pretty much given up on it until then and I'm actually "looking forward" to spending the money (maybe a little tongue in check with that comment) to make my headache go away. Thanks for all of your replies and offers of possible other options.....it is certainly worth knowing all the possibilities in order to checklist all the pros and cons of each option.

 

[eXodus]

Unfortunately true, new doesn't mean better or even plain working ? these days.

I've liked to buy new things till like mid 2000s ever since I'm buying primary used. Lot less headache compared to the value you get.

 

[rodsterinfl]

Yes, as JeepDaddy said, absorption fridges were designed originally to run on propane. So, to be fair, you would need to run it on propane and then compare propane use to DC on the compressor fridge then compare what one uses the most energy. Electric was added and, represents an alternative energy source. Any time you start using another source of energy different than what was design intended there tends to be inefficiency. We dont use DC in our homes much because of various considering factors, etc. Also, do not forget that energy charts show most efficient sources. Electric as an offshoot source of power meaning that the power used to make it counts too. Ironically that often tends to be from a fossil fuel. Unless of course we use solar!

Since going solar and going through that learning process on the camper and now the house, I have started thinking more globally about energy efficiency- all energy sources and what is best for the application, not just that everything has to be electric. I am on board with conservancy but not so much on politics.

On another point posted here, I am a bit concerned as well on the many posted failures of the Dometic and Norcold DC units too. It is always hard to tell if widespread but there certainly are a lot of posts about failing newer units. I have a 10 year old absorption Dometic and, I am willing to change it out but I don't want issues either.

 

[mptx]

Add to that the fact that we needed to remove the absorption fridge and roll it around every year or two to ‘burp’ it, and the maintenance was more trouble than it was worth.

I’ve heard of this problem but my fridge has never experienced anything like it. If I had to take it out for any reason I’d be putting in something with the danfoss compressor. The only burping sound would be the trash truck crunching the old box into a toothpick.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

I think @rodsterinfl gets an award for waking up one of the oldest inactive threads on the forum (last post before his was November 2021)

On a serious note - welcome to the forum!

 

[wme]

Old useless information for an old thread.
1 gallon of propane = 27 kwh = 91,500 btu.
In an off grid setting propane is very useful.

 

[0truck0]

sorry if this offends, but Dumbest post ever!
Of no understanding.
Absorption fridges not supposed to run on DC power, that is also dumb. There are rare situations where you might run off DC power but this is not intended as the solution. They are meant to run on GAS. So your numbers are dumb. What is the DC draw when running on GAS?
The answer starts at ZERO! Some use zero DC power to run, some use just enough to operate a circuit board and some need a little powe to operate a valve.
Can you just delete this post altogether?
Wow, the world is not getting any smarter

 

[Tomthumb62]

We have zero regrets about getting rid of our 3-way fridge and going with a 120v compressor fridge.

Pros:

• Electrically massively more efficient.
• Twice the capacity of our 3-way.
• Sold the very old 3-way for not much less than the price of the brand new compressor fridge.
• Less propane use.
• No need to switch between each 3-way source.
• Far more usable space for the size of the machine.
• No need to vent or seal from roof leaks.

Cons:

• Required some investment for a solar system.
• Camping locations are more limited, direct sun is required at least every 48h. Or pay to camp or fire up the generator.

More pros:

• In summer we can boondock for long periods, water is our only limit.
• No need to stay in expensive and crowded rv parks or campgrounds simply to charge up the battery.
• The solar system also supports our other electrical needs, such as water pump, lights, fans, heated blanket, charging devices.

Some day I’ll do proper math, but the ballpark figure is we’ve spent about $2200 for our solar system, 600W of panels, 2560Wh battery (12v 200Ah), 1000W inverter, 30A charger and solar charger, wires, fuses, etc. This figure doesn’t include the cost of the expensive lessons I learned along the way.

From a complete financial perspective, it would’ve been cheaper to have stayed with the 3-way. But the freedom this new system gives us is priceless. We cook a lot, almost never eat out. So good fresh food, lots of it, is core to our lifestyle. Plus our 3-way had no freezer. We can now eat ice cream anytime in the middle of summer in the middle of no where. LOL.

 

[scubadoo]

An old thread but no contest for us.

I will simply requote a post of mine a few days ago in another thread:

I understand that a few here detest Samsung but 10 years ago I replaced our 175l 3-way with a 230V Domestic 255l (9 cu ft) Samsung Digital Inverter fridge/freezer.
It is powered by a dedicated US$60 300W 230VAC PSW inverter mounted behind the fridge.
Both the fridge and inverter running 24/7 have now survived the rattle and shaking of 10 years full-time travel without a single issue.
No manual defrosting was an added bonus.

For anyone interested the original 3-way devoured a 9kg (20lb) LPG bottle every 10 days.
Here in NZ that equates to almost US$7000 savings so far. Enough to replace our entire now 10 year old solar, LiFePO4 battery, fridge etc. setup - twice!

A 6 month data log from day one showed the average energy draw including inverter losses from our 4 cell battery was almost exactly 800Wh daily or in amps 2.52

The 2 large Dometic external vent hatches were removed and covered with 3mm white polycarbonate sheeting.