OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
of course - she always knew these are just for fun
Wow, basen rack.mounts batteries destroy a home in germany
- Thread starter houseofancients
- Start date
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
one explosion in one country out of 500 million or so similar homes. pretty rare event.
Nobodybusiness
Solar Sponge.
That looks like a collapse to me.To me the battery case looks very much undamaged
https://www.photovoltaikforum.com/thread/214845-explosion-eines-30-kilowattstunden-batteriespeichers-zerstört-wohnhaus-in-wernge/?postID=3444596#post3444596
Batteries are still intact.
The wall is blown in.
Not seen to many implosions before especially from Batteries.
Moot point for me.
All mine are outside in a building 200 feet away.
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hwy17
Anti-Solar Enthusiast
Well I am less interested in playing PR manager for LFP here and more interested in what we can learn from this. Even if only hypothetically.
I can raise my hand here as someone who currently has a server rack battery 3ft from a propane water heater and was planning to install more even closer. Some will say that was always a dumb idea, but honestly I never saw flammable gaseous build up given any discussion.
We apparently know that they can give off a lot of hydrogen quickly in a venting event, and I don't put it out of the realm of possibility that a vent couldn't happen to me. So this does change my own plans.
I can raise my hand here as someone who currently has a server rack battery 3ft from a propane water heater and was planning to install more even closer. Some will say that was always a dumb idea, but honestly I never saw flammable gaseous build up given any discussion.
We apparently know that they can give off a lot of hydrogen quickly in a venting event, and I don't put it out of the realm of possibility that a vent couldn't happen to me. So this does change my own plans.
Is that for a single 5kWh battery? 142m3 is garage-sized. That suggests that a small box with devices that can arc is a real hazard.
My marginally informed opinion in the matter is that if it was a gas boiler and an unventilated space then there was elevated risk for sure. I would not have expected this level of risk for an electric boiler, but it clearly exists.
Sarcasm noted, but LEL is just a function of gas concentration with an ignition source.
Brucey
Solar Wizard
Is this for a single 48V 100Ah rack style battery?
Seems to be saying minimum recommended room size is 142m3, which is around 5000 cubic feet? Maybe my math is off. 1769 liters of gas is a huge amount. So a 280Ah powerpro battery would potentially release 2.8 times that? I guess an outdoor power house wouldn't be a bad decision at all.
Brett V
Mad Scientist
Interesting but meaningless discussion. There has been NO proof this was a catastrophic explosion of the batteries. Lots of unsubstantiated conjecture based on an unverified claim from an unknown source. The supplied photograph shows no signs of positive pressure from within the room, no signs of fire, and no evidence of an explosion of any kind. If anything, it looks like a building collapse from above due to any number of sources such as an earthquake or structural failure.
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
The post title contains an assumed cause without any evidence provided.
Typical news tactic - plant the idea in the headline, provide no evidence at all to support that assumption in the article that follows. Most readers later only recall the title, and do not recall the lack of evidence.
Typical news tactic - plant the idea in the headline, provide no evidence at all to support that assumption in the article that follows. Most readers later only recall the title, and do not recall the lack of evidence.
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
Interesting story, a fire safety expert once told me: If we just discovered natural gas today, it would be impossible to get it passed for domestic use in N.America today.
hwy17
Anti-Solar Enthusiast
Yeah but I think that's true of so many things. Blenders? No way, not without a lid sensor. Doors? They would need finger pinch protection.
Our today is the problem there.
hwy17
Anti-Solar Enthusiast
PV Magazine ain't news. It's a shameless industry rag.
automatikdonn
Becoming Offgrid
The concentration of gases would be highest inside the battery case, so it makes little sense to me that there appears to be no damage to the battery case at all. Something that would ignite with this kind of force would seemingly show at least some evidence damage at the source.
I would say more data is needed, scary nonetheless
I would say more data is needed, scary nonetheless
As far as I know, the battery case isn't pictured and it's located on the opposite side of the wall from where the inverters are.
I've attached the full test report, while the test included multiple batteries, the report seems to indicate only one rack battery vented in the test.
My little lifepo4 batteries I diy built, have mech vent 24/7. Seems like it's the right thing to do. Not so easy on drop in batteries. So DIY can be safer than very expensive closed cased batteries ?
hwy17
Anti-Solar Enthusiast
By the time that the room air concentration became explosive and met an ignition source, the concentration inside the battery case could have been too high to explode.
Bluedog225
Texas
Really matter to me whether this was caused by the batteries.
I wish they didn’t call the batteries both “lithium ion” and ”LiFePO4” in the documents.
Thanks for linking the documents.
I wish they didn’t call the batteries both “lithium ion” and ”LiFePO4” in the documents.
Bluedog225
Texas
Gonna require some significant revisions to my conex plans. Darn it.
automatikdonn
Becoming Offgrid
So who wants to help me design a cover that goes around your batteries that will vent outside? Seems to me like a reasonable mitigation to prevent this failure mode.
While the propensity for failure seems to be relatively low, the risk is complete destruction of your domicile.
Thread is here for the curious.
diysolarforum.com
While the propensity for failure seems to be relatively low, the risk is complete destruction of your domicile.
Thread is here for the curious.
Rack Mounted Battery enclosure to vent failed cells
I think in light of recent news about the explosion in Germany, having a discussion on risk mitigation methods is prudent. I think designing an enclosure that goes around the battery packs that would vent directly outside is worth discussing.
diysolarforum.com
automatikdonn
Becoming Offgrid
I am not trying to be rude, I just don't want to jack this thread with off-topic things. @houseofancients shared some valuable information for all of us and I don't want to step on it by any means. Hence the link to the other thread.
cs1234
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- May 9, 2022
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I'm not trying to be rude either. My only point is that you are trying to prevent the accumulation of gases in a room. Air exchange in the room is the important part, not whether something is ducted or not. Ducting the batteries just directs the air exchange/exhaust for easier removal. It's likely more efficient and allows the use of a lower powered fan, which is good. But if you can't duct them, vent the whole room.
Lt.Dan
Solar Wizard
I like the idea of venting the whole room too, it won't take much. I would think a small 120mm fan should be sufficient just to keep a decent exchange of fresh air happening.
Nobodybusiness
Solar Sponge.
Whatever keeps it from the stoichiometric ratio for exploding.
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