Xuba Electronics: DEAL - 280AH LiFePo4 cells. Purchase & Review

[Frank in Thailand]

I've been working/dealing with Chinese seller and companies for quite a long time now, even longer with Japanese.

As for Western countries, when you are dealing with Asian countries, think like them!!

Stealing ideas?? No.
Re-use knowledge, improve.
Improvement is not always better quality, can be better profit

Honesty... No.
Chinese don't start with the (whole) truth.
If you do, you have nothing left to bargain with.

Bargaining is second nature.
Don't be too direct.

warranty is there up to the moment you have received the goods.
once you confirm, your " 5 year warranty" has been reduced to 5 minutes

This is not in anyway intended to be insulting or standard of either westerns or Asian.

Its just different.

If you like the prices of the products, but talk about stealing, in a negative way.....

Then don't buy!
If you don't like how the price get that low...
Buy the expensive ones.
Even then...
Those probably are the cheap ones,just with better marketing

That goes for many products, not only lifepo4 cells.

You buy cheap clothes/iPhone, but demonstrate about child labour* or terrible work conditions for the workers in the factories..

*Children should never need to work for a living, except learning at school, what might be considered work also
Helping out in the family business is in my opinion "totally normal" and a good way to learn responsibly that life isn't free. School should not be second but first responsibility

Ok, iPhone official no longer have children working... But did for long time.

Just remember, if you want to buy, there is no "wrong" on the seller/producing side.
If you think it should not go that way, don't make the demand for it, and don't buy.

 

[Sgt Raven]

A XUBA UPDATE

She was just following up on my suggestions and got this OK'd from upstairs too. She's already nailed down offering cases which should be posted next week hopefully. IF/When they will carry Chargery BMS' and related hardware I dunno, she's still working on that, but they are in contact with Jason @ Chargery so who knows.

I wish they had those wide bus bars with the little bend in the center like some others come with, as they cover the whole terminals on the cells. As for more of them, I'm using 3 right now and received 4, but had to make a couple of jumpers for my initial parallel charging as I needed 6 for that. I had the used Anderson Powerpoles 120A with 8" of 4AWG in each of them, that I got from BH. So I used those for the 2 extra bus bars I needed.

 

[Sgt Raven]

I've been working/dealing with Chinese seller and companies for quite a long time now, even longer with Japanese.

As for Western countries, when you are dealing with Asian countries, think like them!!

....snip......

warranty is there up to the moment you have received the goods.
once you confirm, your " 5 year warranty" has been refunded to 5 minutes

...snip....

Just remember, if you want to buy, there is no "wrong" on the seller/producing side.
If you think it should not go that way, don't make the demand for it,and don't buy.

Back in my days of working on cars in gas stations, we called that the "Tail Light" warranty....
The warranty was good for as long as we could see the Tail Lights of the car driving away...........

 

[Steve_S]

I had to buy 110 Copper Bar Stock for new busbars as I only got singles and the screws provided are too long and bottom out before tightening the bus bars so they had to be doubled anyways, doubled they are fine, "just". I got 110 stock that is the same width but 5mm thick and they work a treat.

 

[Frank in Thailand]

I had to buy 110 Copper Bar Stock for new busbars as I only got singles and the screws provided are too long and bottom out before tightening the bus bars so they had to be doubled anyways, doubled they are fine, "just". I got 110 stock that is the same width but 5mm thick and they work a treat.

Just out of curiosity...

The terminals are aluminium, yes?
Then why do most people like to use copper bus bars, and even in the highest quality possible??

Naturally, I understand that 110c have less resistance.
Less resistance is less of the total capacity lost.
But price (here in Thailand) is really high.
Even up to a level one could almost take higher capacity and iron busbar, and at the end of the day have total higher available capacity at lower costs.

I'm also learning here

 

[Sgt Raven]

I had to buy 110 Copper Bar Stock for new busbars as I only got singles and the screws provided are too long and bottom out before tightening the bus bars so they had to be doubled anyways, doubled they are fine, "just". I got 110 stock that is the same width but 5mm thick and they work a treat.

I used #14 Brass Washers to take up the gap. 2 of them is the prefect thickness for this. They are slightly larger than the head of the screws. I got them to use between the flange nuts and the ring terminals, when I switch over to studs instead of the screws. I'm old school and was taught to always use a washer with these types of fasteners. It changes how the torque is applied.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/14-Brass-Flat-Washer-4-Pack-811641/204276458

 

[Sgt Raven]

Just out of curiosity...

The terminals are aluminium, yes?
Then why do most people like to use copper bus bars, and even in the highest quality possible??

Naturally, I understand that 110c have less resistance.
Less resistance is less of the total capacity lost.
But price (here in Thailand) is really high.
Even up to a level one could almost take higher capacity and iron busbar, and at the end of the day have total higher available capacity at lower costs.

I'm also learning here

Because of low loss in copper and for the small amount needed, the price in the US is negligible. I'm probably going to buy a short stick of 3/4" copper water pipe and use my hydraulic press and steel plates to press it flat. If you look at how copper cable lugs are made, they start with round tubing and press it into the size shape needed. I could just hammer the pipe flat, but I want it to look nicer than that. 20 tons of pressure should do that easily...

Squeezing it in a 6" bench vise would work too and look better than just hammering it flat.

 

[KauaiMolokai]

Is there a reason you can't have your guys buy a few of these cells at the "local price" and have them shipped to you? Or even buy a lot of them?

 

[ghostwriter66]

I had to buy 110 Copper Bar Stock for new busbars as I only got singles and the screws provided are too long and bottom out before tightening the bus bars so they had to be doubled anyways, doubled they are fine, "just". I got 110 stock that is the same width but 5mm thick and they work a treat.

1. Purchase 8 feet of Half inch copper pipe at Home Depot for something like $5.00
2. Go over to the TX-DOT ppl doing the roadwork on the road by work and ask them if they can take the Billion ton roller and run over it for me
3. Take grinder and cut pieces to size.
4. Perfect BusBar (NO seriously - absolutely excellent)

You can substitute #2 by putting the copper pipe on the road - put a board over it - then drive over it -- flattens like a pancake

 

[Steve_S]

Hmm an Oil Company using copper pipe instead of copper stock. Just another BODGE eh... like so many others, fortunately when the batteries go Poof the region isn't contaminated with toxic slugde.

 

[ghostwriter66]

Is there a reason you can't have your guys buy a few of these cells at the "local price" and have them shipped to you? Or even buy a lot of them?

Just that work out here is literally 12 hours a day -- days a week -- and from where I sit its just easier to throw a little money away and have someone else do the purchase, boxeing, packaging, shipping, custom labels, and drop it at my door... NOW to be honest -- if I was some young guy like @Will Prowse I would get me a 40 foot shipping container full of them at hugely reduced mass volume Chinese prices - ship them to Arizona -- then sell them like Amy does .. A delivery fee from Arizona would be 1/10 of what it is from China ... and he could still sell it for the same price Amy does and make a fortune ...

Same thing with Chargery -- Will and @Steve_S should make a deal with Jason to buy heavily discounted Chargery systems and then sell them for the same price Jason does .. the upside would be that Steve probably knows more about the Chargery BMS then even Jason PLUS for a Canadian Steve still speaks pretty good english and writes well ...

 

[ghostwriter66]

Hmm an Oil Company using copper pipe instead of copper stock. Just another BODGE eh... like so many others, fortunately when the batteries go Poof the region isn't contaminated with toxic slugde.

Going to say that I slept through all of my chemical classes so wouldn't know the difference between the two of them - so i may be using the wrong nomenclature for the right product ...

 

[KauaiMolokai]

Just that work out here is literally 12 hours a day -- days a week -- and from where I sit its just easier to throw a little money away and have someone else do the purchase, boxeing, packaging, shipping, custom labels, and drop it at my door... NOW to be honest -- if I was some young guy like @Will Prowse I would get me a 40 foot shipping container full of them at hugely reduced mass volume Chinese prices - ship them to Arizona -- then sell them like Amy does .. A delivery fee from Arizona would be 1/10 of what it is from China ... and he could still sell it for the same price Amy does and make a fortune ...

Same thing with Chargery -- Will and @Steve_S should make a deal with Jason to buy heavily discounted Chargery systems and then sell them for the same price Jason does .. the upside would be that Steve probably knows more about the Chargery BMS then even Jason PLUS for a Canadian Steve still speaks pretty good english and writes well ...

Thanks. Its always a matter of prioritizing one's finite time ;-)
I've thought of doing this - shipping a container load of Chinese items. I suspect it takes a bit more than one container to make a fortune, and running businesses in the US is a high overhead endeavor (taxes, rent, employees, logistics, retail returns, being stuff with obsolete stock, etc). But there certainly is money to be made, everywhere, everyday.

I have a PM question for you also regarding oil.

 

[Sgt Raven]

Just that work out here is literally 12 hours a day -- days a week -- and from where I sit its just easier to throw a little money away and have someone else do the purchase, boxeing, packaging, shipping, custom labels, and drop it at my door... NOW to be honest -- if I was some young guy like @Will Prowse I would get me a 40 foot shipping container full of them at hugely reduced mass volume Chinese prices - ship them to Arizona -- then sell them like Amy does .. A delivery fee from Arizona would be 1/10 of what it is from China ... and he could still sell it for the same price Amy does and make a fortune ...

Same thing with Chargery -- Will and @Steve_S should make a deal with Jason to buy heavily discounted Chargery systems and then sell them for the same price Jason does .. the upside would be that Steve probably knows more about the Chargery BMS then even Jason PLUS for a Canadian Steve still speaks pretty good english and writes well ...

I'm not sure of the actual weight per cubic yard for LFP battery cells, but I don't think a 40' Conex of them could legally be transported on US roads.
40+ years ago, the Trucking Company I worked for was hauling a whole bunch of 20' shipping containers from the Oakland Docks to Central California.

The containers were so heavy, we had to load each of them on a 40' flatbed trailer, to be legally transported on the roads.
We got behind on the deliveries and the deadline to get them delivered. We ended loading each container on a 27' flatbed trailer and hauled them as a set of double trailers. We had to plan our route carefully to bypass the weight stations and hope some Cop wouldn't take us to a scale to check our weights. The fines if we had got caught would have been huge.

 

[AndreL]

I like idea of flattening copper pipe stock, it is not a new one, however I do not have a vice and agree the hammered effect will look bad, plus you will work harden the metal. Copper is a good gasket material and helps make good cell terminal contact.

Now the suggestion of running the pipe over by Ghostwrite got me thinking. I have 2 left over disc rotors from a break upgrade on my truck.

If I place the pipe between the discs and sit the front wheels of the truck on it for a bit, the pipe will become naturally flattened. Now I have a fun job for the weekend.

 

[Sgt Raven]

I like idea of flattening copper pipe stock, it is not a new one, however I do not have a vice and agree the hammered effect will look bad, plus you will work harden the metal. Copper is a good gasket material and helps make good cell terminal contact.

Now the suggestion of running the pipe over by Ghostwrite got me thinking. I have 2 left over disc rotors from a break upgrade on my truck.

If I place the pipe between the discs and sit the front wheels of the truck on it for a bit, the pipe will become naturally flattened. Now I have a fun job for the weekend.

If you have a bottle jack and a trailer hitch on the truck, then you can use that as a improvised hydraulic press. Might need some 2x4 or 4x4 pieces of wood to get the spacing just right. BTDT. I've used an old steel rim as a riser, too.

 

[JoeHam]

If you have a bottle jack and a trailer hitch on the truck, then you can use that as a improvised hydraulic press. Might need some 2x4 or 4x4 pieces of wood to get the spacing just right. BTDT. I've used an old steel rim as a riser, too.

And I just use a 2 pound short handle sledge.

Do it when something is bothering you and you will be done before you know it! ?

 

[Sniper]

@Steve_S as your neighbour in the north, I wanted to thank you for starting this thread. It's been a very informative read. I will be definitely leveraging a lot of the information gather here. Cheer!

 

[Sgt Raven]

And I just use a 2 pound short handle sledge.

Do it when something is bothering you and you will be done before you know it! ?

If you put the pipe between a couple of steel sheets and beat on them. The new bus bars would look nicer, compared to beating on them directly. A couple of 4"x6" 1/4" steel plates should work and you could make two bus bars at a time. If I was going to do that I'd used a 20 lb sledge, myself.

 

[ghostwriter66]

If you put the pipe between a couple of steel sheets and beat on them. The new bus bars would look nicer, compared to beating on them directly. A couple of 4"x6" 1/4" steel plates should work and you could make two bus bars at a time. If I was going to do that I'd used a 20 lb sledge, myself.

Those all sound like good ideas -- Still though I just usually take a 8 foot piece of pipe - lay it on the ground - throw a 8 x 1 x 6 over the top -- get a loaded 3500HD - and roll it back and forth - and that comes out pretty smashed and ok looking ... Fortunately for me everything out here is dirty, greasy, and if it doesn't leak oil - ppl don't trust it - so cutting a pipe with a grinder and hammering it a few more times with a 5 lb sledge is just all part of the game ....

 

[Sgt Raven]

Those all sound like good ideas -- Still though I just usually take a 8 foot piece of pipe - lay it on the ground - throw a 8 x 1 x 6 over the top -- get a loaded 3500HD - and roll it back and forth - and that comes out pretty smashed and ok looking ... Fortunately for me everything out here is dirty, greasy, and if it doesn't leak oil - ppl don't trust it - so cutting a pipe with a grinder and hammering it a few more times with a 5 lb sledge is just all part of the game ....

I'm just thinking if I want them to look pretty, too. I have an idea how to press the little hump in them, too. It would take 2 steps to do it.

Believe me I've done my share of Mickey Mouse repairs so I could get home. One time a piece of wire from the positive post of the battery to the ignition coil, and a screw driver to jump the starter solenoid to get my Mach 1 home when I lost all electrical power. Lost all electrics on a Peterbilt. A wire to the fuel solenoid, let it get fuel and a remote starter switch started the motor. Turning the key on back fed the electrical system, too. When I got home and tore into it. The master circuit breaker had corrosion and fell completely apart. The wire to the solenoid ended up feeding the rest of the circuits from the other side of the circuit breaker so my brake lights and all worked. I've driven 150 miles with broken clutch linkage. At every stop, I turned the engine off, put it in gear and cranked the engine to get rolling again. I didn't need the clutch to shift gears and all.

 

[mkaye]

Amy has been very helpful trying to get my order shipped
logistics wanted another US$38 because they say i am rural
my postal code is K0A - the '0' means rural, but i am not rural in any sense of the word
finally used my daughters address - hoping this will solve the problem

 

[Pacer]

Amy has been very helpful trying to get my order shipped
logistics wanted another US$38 because they say i am rural
my postal code is K0A - the '0' means rural, but i am not rural in any sense of the word
finally used my daughters address - hoping this will solve the problem

Hi- did you have any issues with credit card not being accepted? I started the appeal process and provided ID, I’m hoping that gets resolved within the next few days.

 

[mkaye]

yes, had to do the appeal process - took less than a day

 

[Delta-V]

Well, I did another capacity test. A middle capacity attempt. Meaning, not fully charged to 100% or bottoming out to 0%. Somewhere in the middle.

This attempt was to try to correlate with the graph from the EVE PDF file at the drop-off points (my guestimation).

Range
8 Xuba EVE 280Ah cells (24V nominal)
Upper limit: 26.4V (3.30V per cell)
Lower limit: 25.2V (3.15V per cell)

I had the battery already mostly fully charged at 28.8V (3.60V per cell), so I used it for a bit bringing it down to 26.4V before I started noting measurements. It took a lot longer than I thought as I was expecting the voltage to drop down to 26.4V fairly quickly when I was averaging around 800Wh. I used like 2,500Wh before I finally got it to around 26.4V.

Then it took some doing to get it to rest at 26.4V. Several passes - running fans and such to drop the voltage down to 26.2V or so, let it sit, then it'd creep back up. Finally got it to settle at 26.4V (after several hours rest).

1st Pic - Begin test, inverter off, rested 26.4V, zero'd DROK meter
2nd Pic - Inverter on, voltage starts to slowly drop under load
3rd Pic - General reference, just over half way through test
4th Pic - Reached lower limit, just under 25.2V under load
5th Pic - Intentionally went lower, expected voltage to rise after no load
6th Pic - Inverter off, resting voltage after a couple hours, just under 25.2V

Result
Used 3,847Wh (150Ah) or about 54% of rated capacity. I was expecting something closer to 80%. So, the graph doesn't seem to correlate well with how I did this test.

I actually had a pretty detailed write-up, but lost most of it somehow when I attempted to Preview this post before posting it. Already spent a couple hours on this, then Poofff! Gone! So, I'm posting what I have now before I goof it up again, ha ha.

I'm thinking about doing another test expanding the range a bit, maybe to something like 27V to 24.4V (3.375V to 3.05V cell) and see what the percent capacity would be in comparison.