Sol-Ark needs a serious Change!

[Roqm]

this post was about SolArk needing a serious change..
the start of the technology for hybrids started back in the 90s. I’m sure China made hybrids way before SolArk. SolArk wanted an inverter made with better options for the USA. The SolArk being made in China makes it difficult for the “serious change”

Those pictures of Deyes you are showing appeared 18 months after Sol-Ark already displayed their 8K unit for sale.
Why on Earth do you assume that Sol-Ark made an Inverter similar to a Deye when all the Evidence points to Sol-Ark having their Inverter design out long before Deye. You can also find an interesting video from THREE Years Ago where Engineer775 explains that the Sol-Ark 8K was designed by Sol-Ark with a lot of features suggested by him to the Sol-Ark engineering team.

Ok so explain the new 5k..what 4 years after deye introduced it....or were they waiting to perfect the design?

 

[Cheap 4-life]

Ok so explain the new 5k..what 4 years after deye introduced it....or were they waiting to perfect the design?

To me it seems like the same thing.. SolArk wanted a hybrid inverter for the USA with splitphase and a higher max output so then there was the SolArk 8k which they had China make which of course turned out looking very similiar to the hybrid inverters that already existed in China because China made them. If SolArk wanted people to think they came up with the technology then they should have not sent it to China to be made, but even then China was already making inverters with the hybrid technology. They might not have had splitphase or as high of an output but that was just tweaks SolArk wanted

 

[Roqm]

To me it seems like the same thing.. SolArk wanted a hybrid inverter for the USA with splitphase and a higher max output so then there was the SolArk 8k which they had China make which of course turned out looking very similiar to the hybrid inverters that already existed in China because China made them. If SolArk wanted people to think they came up with the technology then they should have not sent it to China to be made, but even then China was already making inverters with the hybrid technology. They might not have had splitphase or as high of an output but that was just tweaks SolArk wanted

Its all smoke and mirrors all i care about is the discontinuation of the deye 8k...its funny how only the split phase version is to be stopped and i was asking robby to explain who copied the 5k..

 

[robby]

Ok so explain the new 5k..what 4 years after deye introduced it....or were they waiting to perfect the design?

What year did Deye introduce a 5K clone of the 8K Sol-Ark? How did you come up with 4 Years? Deye was not even making the 8K Sol-Ark version 2 years ago.

Other than a change in the Mosfets and the power ratings of a few components is the 5K any different than the 8K?
Is the hardware even changed? Its pretty easy to change the limits in Firmware. If you own a Tesla EV you know exactly what I mean.
Most likely Sol-Ark did not see a priority for importing or selling a 5K inverter that has a $4800 price tag when they have an 8K for $6000. It no big deal for Deye to use the same PCB's, hardware and firmware to make a 3.6K, 5K or 6K but for Sol-Ark it might have not have been profitable at the time. Most likely they have now been seeing request for a 5K and decide to have it made. When you actually offer a warranty and support for your products it's not a good idea to have cheaper versions that offer the same warranty and support because it has the same impact on your expenses as the more expensive model. Several Hours on Tech support with a 5K unit or a 12K unit costs the same for Sol-Ark and repairs are pretty much going to be almost the same amount of money and the customer paid a lot less for the unit.

 

[robby]

Your close to solark engineers....ask them to give the ip and patent numbers.... lets just forget about when pictures were posted by who and when since we have you as an inside man....

LOL those pesky dated pictures and Videos, they get in the way of the alternate facts
Why don't you go and Ask Deye for the Patent Info since your so sure they own it? I have no interest in proving this further, the facts are already on the Wayback machine and YouTube videos from back in 2018.

 

[Roqm]

LOL those pesky dated pictures and Videos, they get in the way of the alternate facts
Why don't you go and Ask Deye for the Patent Info since your so sure they own it? I have no interest in proving this further, the facts are already on the Wayback machine and YouTube videos from back in 2018.

If i was cozy/chatting with the engineers like you do i would....its a no brainer...they will only say yes or no

 

[Roqm]

What year did Deye introduce a 5K clone of the 8K Sol-Ark? How did you come up with 4 Years? Deye was not even making the 8K Sol-Ark version 2 years ago.

Yet i provided pictures from companys that was selling the same 8k version they displayed.

Flytec Computers

SOLAR MPPT SUN-8K-48-ST SOLAR CONTROLLER 48V

www.flytec.com.py

 

[robby]

Yet i provided pictures from companys that was selling the same 8k version they displayed.

Flytec Computers

SOLAR MPPT SUN-8K-48-ST SOLAR CONTROLLER 48V

www.flytec.com.py

Sorry but those grey and Blue units are Sol-Ark 8K sent over to Deye in 2019. but you don't even have a date on the photos so they mean nothing. The third Photo is a Sol-Ark being sold by under the Deye name in August 2019. If you go back a few thread pages I already stated that Deye got their hands on the Sol-Ark 8K in late 2019 and did not produce a clone until 2020.

If you need further proof of when Deye cloned the 2018 Sol-Ark 8K here it is.

Deye's Introductory video of their Hybrid 8k in Jun 2020:

This is the oldest video I can find showing the Deye 8K Clone. Everything before that going back until late 2019 is the Sol-Ark 8K with the label torn off or on their official website a Gtil2 Inverter with the Deye name on it. So Deye has only been selling the Sol-Ark clone for 15 Months.

 

[Cheap 4-life]

Sorry but those grey and Blue units are Sol-Ark 8K sent over to Deye in 2019. but you don't even have a date on the photos so they mean nothing. The third Photo is a Sol-Ark being sold by under the Deye name in August 2019. If you go back a few thread pages I already stated that Deye got their hands on the Sol-Ark 8K in late 2019 and did not produce a clone until 2020.

If you need further proof of when Deye cloned the 2018 Sol-Ark 8K here it is.

Deye's Introductory video of their Hybrid 8k in Jun 2020:

This is the oldest video I can find showing the Deye 8K Clone. Everything before that going back until late 2019 is the Sol-Ark 8K with the label torn off or on their official website a Gtil2 Inverter with the Deye name on it. So Deye has only been selling the Sol-Ark clone for 15 Months.

China was making single phase hybrid inverters before SolArk wanted splitphase. So to say Deye cloned SolArk doesn’t make sense since Sunsynk Deye or whomever (China) was already making hybrid inverters. SolArk had China make the inverters that SolArk sold to the USA. SolArk just wanted higher output wattage and splitphase. China basically took their lower output hybrid inverters and raised the wattage output and made them splitphase. Yes Deye started then making splitphase higher output hybrids but they didn’t clone SolArk, China was already making hybrid inverters long before SolArk even was thought about. They were lower output like the 5k and were only single phase.

 

[robby]

China was making single phase hybrid inverters before SolArk wanted splitphase. So to say Deye cloned SolArk doesn’t make sense since Sunsynk Deye or whomever (China) was already making hybrid inverters. SolArk had China make the inverters that SolArk sold to the USA. SolArk just wanted higher output wattage and splitphase. China basically took their lower output hybrid inverters and raised the wattage output and made them splitphase. Yes Deye started then making splitphase higher output hybrids but they didn’t clone SolArk, China was already making hybrid inverters long before SolArk even was thought about. They were lower output like the 5k and were only single phase.

How did this suddenly shift into an argument about China being the first to create Hybrid Inverters? I have never researched that and don't plan to!

We are talking about this Sol-Ark designed Hybrid Inverter. Units that have the same circuit boards, the same look and feel plus functionality.

 

[houseofancients]

Here is a video of the developer of this hybrid inverter from 2018. It is my understanding that he had at this time already sold his company and patents to globaltech. The idea that this unit was developed by solark and stolen by deye is not at all accurate.

I have other evidence that I'm not at liberty to share because the company owner that shared it with me used to be a solark distributor until he found out that the company had been lying to him about where they were manufactured. When he tried to get a similar but improved product made in the same factory, solark started putting pressure on Deye for an exclusive by dangling big monthly orders. The factory assured my source that they could produce a superior product to the solark because they could develop the new product to eliminate some of the problems and limitations that the solark had. They worked out multiple deals but solark kept upping their orders and the factory decided that the risk of losing that contract wasn't worth the other smaller contract.

The information in this thread is inaccurate based on my conversations with the party involved but he has asked me to keep the details and names private to avoid the exposure which would have no upside. Solark is reading this thread. They know who I'm talking about but they will keep quiet. They know the truth but just like accepting an award for their American made solar product in 2019 which is actually made in China, they will continue to mislead about the true origins of this product. Kudos to Kieth Gough for his part in developing these products and his commitment to educating people about their use and proper setup and installation through his sunsynk youtube channel.

Yes, Solark has invested time and expertise in creating their version of this product. I don't for a minute believe that they designed this from the ground up. I certainly don't believe that they developed it and then a Chinese company stole it from them. This narrative is easy to sell because it has happened many times but I don't think this is one of those times. At best these products were developed simultaneously by companies working with the same factory to cash in on selling good products that are cheaply produced by Chinese factories.

One other point that should be made. As Elon Musk continually says, it isn't a design that is difficult. What is difficult is taking a design and implementing it into a producible product that can be manufactured. The challenge is in designing the manufacturing process and I don't think for a minute that the designers at Solark did that. They probably told the factory what they wanted in their product and what parts to use to achieve their end goals. They didn't design the factory or processes to make that a reality. They can say what they want and believers will believe. They are marketers and opportunists first and foremost. The fact that they lean on their veteran status to promote their company says a lot about their substance/ presentation ratio. I suspect that the rumors that Solark is going to manufacture this inverter in the US is going to show that designing a factory isn't as easy as developing a wiring diagram, list of parts and set of performance parameters.

Good on them for the things they have done to promote an improved hybrid inverter design. They have what I think is the best version currently available. That should be enough to sell it without resorting to misleading statements about the origins of the parent product.

and see here, this is mr keith ( see company registration link i posted beforw)

 

[Cheap 4-life]

How did this suddenly shift into an argument about China being the first to create Hybrid Inverters? I have never researched that and don't plan to!

We are talking about this Sol-Ark designed Hybrid Inverter. Units that have the same circuit boards, the same look and feel plus functionality.

My point is that China sunsynk or whomever had hybrid inverters, were making hybrid inverters before SolArk was thought of. SolArk wanted China to make them hybrid inverters with extra features like splitphase and more output. Hybrid inverters were being made by China that were single phase and lower output. So yes SolArk wanted some particular things done/changed so they could put their SolArk name on it. And yes then Deye started copying that same exact inverter that has splitphase and higher output, but the inverter that was made for SolArk is just Chinas inverters with different options. So to me that means SolArk had a wiring schematic possibly a prototype and had China make it with chinese parts that China was already using to make the inverters they already made. So of course the SolArk ended up looking very similiar to the inverters SunSynk/china was already making

 

[robby]

Here is a video of the developer of this hybrid inverter from 2018. It is my understanding that he had at this time already sold his company and patents to globaltech. The idea that this unit was developed by solark and stolen by deye is not at all accurate.

I have other evidence that I'm not at liberty to share because the company owner that shared it with me used to be a solark distributor until he found out that the company had been lying to him about where they were manufactured. When he tried to get a similar but improved product made in the same factory, solark started putting pressure on Deye for an exclusive by dangling big monthly orders. The factory assured my source that they could produce a superior product to the solark because they could develop the new product to eliminate some of the problems and limitations that the solark had. They worked out multiple deals but solark kept upping their orders and the factory decided that the risk of losing that contract wasn't worth the other smaller contract.

The information in this thread is inaccurate based on my conversations with the party involved but he has asked me to keep the details and names private to avoid the exposure which would have no upside. Solark is reading this thread. They know who I'm talking about but they will keep quiet. They know the truth but just like accepting an award for their American made solar product in 2019 which is actually made in China, they will continue to mislead about the true origins of this product. Kudos to Kieth Gough for his part in developing these products and his commitment to educating people about their use and proper setup and installation through his sunsynk youtube channel.

Yes, Solark has invested time and expertise in creating their version of this product. I don't for a minute believe that they designed this from the ground up. I certainly don't believe that they developed it and then a Chinese company stole it from them. This narrative is easy to sell because it has happened many times but I don't think this is one of those times. At best these products were developed simultaneously by companies working with the same factory to cash in on selling good products that are cheaply produced by Chinese factories.

One other point that should be made. As Elon Musk continually says, it isn't a design that is difficult. What is difficult is taking a design and implementing it into a producible product that can be manufactured. The challenge is in designing the manufacturing process and I don't think for a minute that the designers at Solark did that. They probably told the factory what they wanted in their product and what parts to use to achieve their end goals. They didn't design the factory or processes to make that a reality. They can say what they want and believers will believe. They are marketers and opportunists first and foremost. The fact that they lean on their veteran status to promote their company says a lot about their substance/ presentation ratio. I suspect that the rumors that Solark is going to manufacture this inverter in the US is going to show that designing a factory isn't as easy as developing a wiring diagram, list of parts and set of performance parameters.

Good on them for the things they have done to promote an improved hybrid inverter design. They have what I think is the best version currently available. That should be enough to sell it without resorting to misleading statements about the origins of the parent product.

So what exactly am I looking at that is new?
Sol-Ark had the 8K on their website for sale in APRIL 2018. Engineer775 was installing his first unit in AUG 2018!
Now you show me a video of a guy that is seemingly running a store that sells multiple inverters and parts from various companies and he is showing off a Sol-Ark 8K in NOV 2018? By Nov 2018 a lot of people had Sol-Ark 8Ks in their hands! When I look at the video what I see is a guy that has pulled off the sticker label on the Inverter and is being very Vague about where it came from. He makes statements like "This is a really nice bit of kit" but he never once makes any claim that he made the unit or has anything to do with it's design.

As for your source who cannot reveal himself, it would seem that if anything you printed was true then Sol-Ark would already know exactly who you are talking about just based on description. So why hide?
On one Hand we have the CEO of Sol-Ark making a direct public statement and putting his name to it and on the other hand we have a Guy who says he knows a Guy who said that it's all not true. ?

Your also saying that the theft of IP by China is a narrative that is very often true but not in this case.
Well I have yet to find a case in the electronics industry where they have not used some other companies IP.
It no doubt exists but it is rare! If you had ever met with actual Chinese engineers you would know that the working environment is not conducive to spending money on research but instead on manufacturing and getting the process setup and efficient. R&D takes years of work and lots of money to get something to be completed and ready for mass production and then even more years of Testing and certification before you can do that manufacturing.

If you look at more recent examples like China's beloved Tech Trophy company DJI.
They needed an IR camera for their newest baddest search drone, so they partnered with "Flir" to make an IR Camera that DJI would manufacture. About 18 months later DJI double crosses Flir and uses Flir's IP to make a replica camera. They then proceed to boot Flir out as they are no longer needed.


About the only thing in your post I agree with is that I have no doubts that Sol-Ark had very little input in the processes involved in manufacturing of the Inverter. Our company would just submit the B-Prints, Art work and Mock boards for the design we wanted and then internal placements for parts and they would hand building prototypes until they got it to the point where we signed off on one of them. After that they did all the heavy lifting with creating and setting up the Assembly process. Some months later we got the final product and if it met our expectations we would green light it. If it did not meet expectations things got changed.

 

[robby]

My point is that China sunsynk or whomever had hybrid inverters, were making hybrid inverters before SolArk was thought of. SolArk wanted China to make them hybrid inverters with extra features like splitphase and more output. Hybrid inverters were being made by China that were single phase and lower output. So yes SolArk wanted some particular things done/changed so they could put their SolArk name on it. And yes then Deye started copying that same exact inverter that has splitphase and higher output, but the inverter that was made for SolArk is just Chinas inverters with different options. So to me that means SolArk had a wiring schematic possibly a prototype and had China make it with chinese parts that China was already using to make the inverters they already made. So of course the SolArk ended up looking very similiar to the inverters SunSynk/china was already making

Except you keep forgetting that Sol-Ark had the unit with this form factor and functionality years before Deye had theirs. So somehow Deye ended up with Sol-Ark looking inverter and not the other way around.

All your interested in is getting a Sol-Ark inverter for half the price by buying a Deye and now your pissed that Deye in no longer selling your half price Inverter. Why on earth would you want an Inverter with Zero customer support and Zero warranty is beyond me.

Do you really think that if Deye created and owned the IP for this Inverter and also manufactures it that they would actually let a buyer like Sol-Ark dictate to them what kind of Inverters they can make and sell? Hell no, they would tell Sol-Ark to Piss off and just start distributing them through a new company.
China has never seen a contract or a Patent as something to adhere to unless the owner has a big stick right over their head.

 

[Tecnodave]

If i was cozy/chatting with the engineers like you do i would....its a no brainer...they will only say yes or no

Unless you buy a product from MidNite Solar, if you have a problem they will put you in touch with an engineer familiar with the issue even up to boB Gudgel , the chief mechanical engineer and the cheif technical officer or Robin Gudgel , the cheif electrical engineer and the founder and president. I have spoken with both. At most companies you will get a person who checks a company database and spoon feeds you answers that may or may not have any relation to the issue that you are having as they are not engineers but are script readers who read on the issue in the company database.

I have always got a very qualified answer to any technical issue or question that i have had.

Discliamer.....I am a MidNite junkie and have hundreds of MidNite items in my systems, even my MagnaSine MS4024AE is mounted on a MidNite E-panel which was specifically designed for the MagnaSine Inverter/Charger

 

[MAJORQUATTRONUT]

This situation with SolArk /Deye has been going on so long (several decades) that it boggles my mind that people still find it surprising. It just shows you how little people pay attention to what is going on around them. I get the fact that it upsets people when they "learn" about this, because it bothers me too. Anyone old enough to remember the early TV days when Curtis-Mathes was a big deal might remember the shock and outrage when people began to discover that their super expensive "American made TV" was actually Japanese components brought in and stuffed into a wooden box here in the States. Intel and others have been doing kind of thing that for what, 40-50 years now?

It is a natural progression of economics that as various countries develop their manufacturing capabilities, they trade with each other, and contribute what they have to that scenario. It could be cheap labor, capital, technology, raw materials, etc. And that has been going on forever.

What is more disturbing (IMHO) is that especially in the US, we are so focused on acquiring goods and services that everything comes down to making a profit. Money. Money Money. Don't worry about homelessness, drug addiction, lack of critical life and job skills, retirement funds, staying healthy, etc...just Make America Great Again. How? Meanwhile, instead of making inverters here in the US, SolArk went to a Chinese company (Deye) and worked with them. Why? Because people here want lots of crap, and they want it cheap. In spite of the massive amount of information floating around the world on the internet, we really are not very well informed as a society. Who are the sources of information? How do you vet that information? Or, do you just believe what you choose to believe, or what your friends say? That is what most people do.

Meanwhile, the gap between the haves, and the have-nots is growing incredibly fast. No one in Washington is doing squat about the real issues, because we just keep buying into the same old line of crap, and we throw things away when they fail to work. And as long as that continues, other countries will continue to supply us with what we truly want...cheap goods. When Japanese-made products became so good that people clamored for them, I recall being surprised that my employer (Japanese) was sub-contracting our work to Korea, Thailand, Vietnam, etc. And no one in the US knew it. I worked in the same industry with a company that made most of its products here in the US, but they started doing the same thing, and having them made in Korea. They just didn't tell people. One of my best friends nearly had a heart attack when he discovered that his $10,000 "US Made" amplifiers were made in China. And so it goes on......

So back to the topic of EMP: if you are worried that it will hit your solar equipment, how well are you prepared for foodstuffs, water, hygiene, weapons, water filtration, medications, decontamination supplies, etc? Do you have spare circuits boards in a Faraday cage to repair your car, radios, phones, or what-ever devices? Do you actually know how to repair any of those things?

It bothers the crap out of me that we continue to rail against isolated issues like the SolArk/Deye scenario while blindly ignoring the behavioral issues that are the root cause. One of the greatest minds of our time (Noam Chomsky) contends that it is one of the greatest misconceptions of our "democracy" that we are free to express ourselves and our opinions. But it is simply window dressing to keep us placated while the reality is that it is getting much, much worse. My apologies to Noam if I have garbled his message.

So what can you do about it? Learn. Get out and make a diffrence. Demand action. Boycott companies who don't pay taxes here, and ship all our jobs overseas while making billions and billions in profits. Or just go watch TV.

I agree with 99% of what you say here. We here in the U.S. want the cheapest anything. Dispose of everything when it is no longer useful/in fashion (or we get too fat to wear it). CEO's get richer while landfills and oceans acquire more crap. All the while, we complain about the Mexcican Drug Cartels ruining our country...think about it-if there was not the HUGE demand here, they wouldn't exist. Greed and amassing as much as possible will soon ruin us, God help our Grandchildren!

 

[solardad]

... break out the popcorn.. I love these chicken or the egg scenarios... just waiting for this to turn into who shot JFK?

 

[Cheap 4-life]

Except you keep forgetting that Sol-Ark had the unit with this form factor and functionality years before Deye had theirs. So somehow Deye ended up with Sol-Ark looking inverter and not the other way around.

All your interested in is getting a Sol-Ark inverter for half the price by buying a Deye and now your pissed that Deye in no longer selling your half price Inverter. Why on earth would you want an Inverter with Zero customer support and Zero warranty is beyond me.

Do you really think that if Deye created and owned the IP for this Inverter and also manufactures it that they would actually let a buyer like Sol-Ark dictate to them what kind of Inverters they can make and sell? Hell no, they would tell Sol-Ark to Piss off and just start distributing them through a new company.
China has never seen a contract or a Patent as something to adhere to unless the owner has a big stick right over their head.

Before SolArk there was hybrid inverters being made with lower output and didn’t have splitphase. Yes once SolArk put in big orders, the companies over seas that were making them for SolArk continued to use the same parts and make inverters that looked very similiar to the inverter they were making for SolArk. So if your argument is simply that Deye/China made inverters that looked like SolArk after or during the time they were making SolArks inverters then you are correct. But I think you are overlooking that SolArk didn’t come out with the technology. SolArk just wanted hybrid inverters with splitphase and higher output and a few other options. China was already making smaller single phase hybrids. So imo SolArks are copied Chinese inverters still made by the Chinese with slightly different options than the inverters the Chinese were already making.

I’m actually not at all interested in purchasing a Deye SunSynk or SolArk. My battery is 16s lithium which is to high of a voltage for the mentioned inverters. But I would have purchased the inverter at half cost with basically the same functionality. If we were talking about a few hundred difference then I would have chose a SolArk.

 

[wcpastures]

I was considering a Sol-Ark and this forum caught my interest. So what I'm getting from this if Sol-Ark is not really American made or securely monitored and updated then there is no point in paying a premium for it. Then the bottom line is, what is a comparable hybrid inverter that provides the same features? Reliability and EMP hardening is an important, but the question is can it be 3rd party verified (who want's to be the one to put there $7,000.00+ inverter to the test
I was talking to a Sol-Ark installer who says that by the time all the add-ons are factored in; charge controller, sub-panel... that the competition ends up being close to the same $ ? He is comparing it mainly with the Schneiders XW Pro.
Any suggestions of reliable lower cost options would be helpful.

 

[solardad]

Then the bottom line is, what is a comparable hybrid inverter that provides the same features?

At this time I don't think there is one out there that has the similar ease, efficiency, or overall price to performance.

I own the 12k and did not opt for the EMP and I am not worried about the perceived security risks with remote monitoring servers located in China. If you were to sniff your own internet connection or setup a block on unauthorized tracking cookies, think PI-HOLE, then you would be blown away with the amount of intrusion and data capturing 3rd parties are doing already. I was, so I setup a RSP to block this traffic / queries but it is not foolproof.

ex: in the past 24 hours 56k attempts were blocked




As for Sol-Ark, you can just block the corresponding IP in your router to stop that connection that posts out the inverter data.