Schneider xw pro 6848 not powering up with eg4 lithium battery

[Solar Guy Richard]

I'm inclined to think the problematic inverters start drawing lots of current earlier. If those customers can measure time from battery on to inverter draws current, that might show an issue.

You can lengthen turn-on time, which you've tried. Deliberately load inverters and configure the to auto-start. Connect two inverters, for double the capacitance.

At this point, I would suggest travel to customer sites would be the best approach. Consider them beta-testers. Bring your battery and your inverter, reproduce, measure, swap hardware. Maybe leave them with a functioning system and take the problematic units back for your lab.

I'm not inclined to agree fully with this but I do see where you are coming from. The issue arises to at which point are we responsible vs at which point is the end user responsible. Are we expected to travel the country doing these swaps for our product, which is shown to work under testing with end users who have custom configurations? It goes back to my earlier question about where the onus of responsibility transfers from us as the supplier of operational batteries to a user. I understand in @Koldsimer's case he is just under an hour away - but why does one customer deserve special treatment over someone else, simply because he is closer? Trust me - there is NO INCENTIVE to us for our batteries not to work 100% of the time for every possible configuration out there, and if we could do that we would. I think you would be hard pressed to find a solution that works 100% of the time for any battery manufacturer out there. The nature of solar currently is that every company that produces a battery/inverter/etc is all have their own programming and communications protocols. And until everything is standardized (for example, like video devices in the 70's-90's eg laserdisc vs vhs vs etc) we can only do our best. We ARE still working on it, we ARE still trying to figure out a solution for these users, but right now that solution is to get the device started and use our batteries as batteries only after the fact. It's a fine line to walk and we are doing our best to traverse the line and still provide support.

 

[robby]

I'm not inclined to agree fully with this but I do see where you are coming from. The issue arises to at which point are we responsible vs at which point is the end user responsible. Are we expected to travel the country doing these swaps for our product, which is shown to work under testing with end users who have custom configurations? It goes back to my earlier question about where the onus of responsibility transfers from us as the supplier of operational batteries to a user. I understand in @Koldsimer's case he is just under an hour away - but why does one customer deserve special treatment over someone else, simply because he is closer? Trust me - there is NO INCENTIVE to us for our batteries not to work 100% of the time for every possible configuration out there, and if we could do that we would. I think you would be hard pressed to find a solution that works 100% of the time for any battery manufacturer out there. The nature of solar currently is that every company that produces a battery/inverter/etc is all have their own programming and communications protocols. And until everything is standardized (for example, like video devices in the 70's-90's eg laserdisc vs vhs vs etc) we can only do our best. We ARE still working on it, we ARE still trying to figure out a solution for these users, but right now that solution is to get the device started and use our batteries as batteries only after the fact. It's a fine line to walk and we are doing our best to traverse the line and still provide support.

One would think your interested in solving the problem and would consider that a customer that is close by as a golden opportunity to sort out the issue.

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

I'm interested to hear what happened here. Although we have been told that some people are running into this issue, we have been unable to duplicate (and we even ordered inverters of the exact same make/model as people have told us!) on our tech bench. Preliminary research seems to point towards pre-charge resistor timing, but in our tests we have gone out of our way to actually lengthen this (by 50% or more) and still haven't duplicated this. It's a real head scratcher that we are still working on pinpointing. That being said - once the system is started it seems there isn't any issues at all.

Well as I said ,the entire system was working fine until I heard what I suspect to be a capacitor popping in the inverter.
I am no electronic engineer but intuition is telling me that the pre charge resistor was still sending power to something on the inverter .
A point to note is that the loads were negligible on these inverter
I would welcome a site visit but I am way over in South America-Guyana

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

One would think your interested in solving the problem and would consider that a customer that is close by as a golden opportunity to sort out the issue.

I agree rather than to say we have tested an our batteries are working when we tested.

I still don't get the priority of using a pre charge resistor.
I think it's more economical to just send a resistor to be placed in series and make the alterations on your manual.
It's not like you turn off and on your inverter like your car now is it.
My other system has not been turned off for over a year now.

My take on this and comments by Signature solar is that they are being defensive.

I have been on numerous solar forums and must commend companies like midnite solar ,NAWS forum for their interest and customer service over the years

Some time ago I was even accused of being an undercover sale rep for Midnite solar.

I have paid for all that I have never gotten anything free or by a technicality.

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

Well as I said ,the entire system was working fine until I heard what I suspect to be a capacitor popping in the inverter.
I am no electronic engineer but intuition is telling me that the pre charge resistor was still sending power to something on the inverter .
A point to note is that the loads were negligible on these inverter
I would welcome a site visit but I am way over in South America-Guyana

My take on the problem is that the pre charge resistor components needs further research before implementation.
Your old version gylls were wonder full.
This one maybe junk if you don't get your act together.
I am not into marketing also,while there is not incentive to get this issue resolved it is one that can cost you your company.

I also don't see how multiple unrelated persons are getting the same problem from different parts of the world and its not a problem you can understand.

I again ,some time ago I had a Midnite techie called my phone to actually gather data on an issue under the pretext of good customer service .I did not mind because it helped me help them rectify the issue and I didn't end up with a piece of junk and so i continu to recommend and buy their products.

 

[Bluedog225]

That’s a surprising response by Signature Solar. I thought OP was sold plug and play components. That is, batteries and inverter. And they are not plugging and playing.

Please let me know if I’m mistaken. Because, if I’m right, your post is off base.

 

[MrM1]

That’s a surprising response by Signature Solar. I thought OP was sold plug and play components. That is, batteries and inverter. And they are not plugging and playing.

Please let me know if I’m mistaken. Because, if I’m right, your post is off base.

The OP has a SCHNEIDER XW inverter which was not sold by SS

 

[Bluedog225]

Good to know. Thanks. I was mistaken.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

That’s a surprising response by Signature Solar. I thought OP was sold plug and play components. That is, batteries and inverter. And they are not plugging and playing.

Please let me know if I’m mistaken. Because, if I’m right, your post is off base.

We provided the batteries, but the inverter was not from us. If it was, this would be a completely different story for troubleshooting.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

I agree rather than to say we have tested an our batteries are working when we tested.

I still don't get the priority of using a pre charge resistor.
I think it's more economical to just send a resistor to be placed in series and make the alterations on your manual.
It's not like you turn off and on your inverter like your car now is it.
My other system has not been turned off for over a year now.

My take on this and comments by Signature solar is that they are being defensive.

I have been on numerous solar forums and must commend companies like midnite solar ,NAWS forum for their interest and customer service over the years

Some time ago I was even accused of being an undercover sale rep for Midnite solar.

I have paid for all that I have never gotten anything free or by a technicality.

Totally not trying to be defensive, I want a solution for this just like everyone else. I also need to know where the DIY community wants to draw the line on support vs ...well DIY. I can assure you we are doing a significant amount of work and investment (both time and $) to try and root out the problem some users are experiencing. We have received no less than 10 third party inverters that have all tested and worked with no alterations to either the inverter or the battery, beyond the normal programming. I promise you that I've set up, started, tested a load, and disassembled more configurations in the last 2 weeks than most do in their lifetime. As the guy who has to keep lifting these units and batteries to move them, I want you to know that I'm 100% interested in a solution.

I'd also like to say that I have some amount of pride in the level of customer service Signature Solar, myself included, provide. I think it would be a hard task to find another company as interactive on here, Youtube, and via phone/email than we are. Please let me know if you have seen something I can improve on, I always welcome constructive criticism.

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

I will update

Any test on outback radians?

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

I will update

Any test on outback radians?

We actually just got 2 outbacks this week, not sure the model but I'll let you know.

 

[Bluedog225]

This is the statement from OP I was recalling:

When i bought these i told them exactly the equipment i was running and they said it would work no problem. 8K$ deep into these and can't get them to return a call.....
plug and play my ass

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

This is the statement from OP I was recalling:

When i bought these i told them exactly the equipment i was running and they said it would work no problem. 8K$ deep into these and can't get them to return a call.....
plug and play my ass

Was this outback or signature solar?

 

[Bluedog225]

From post 19. I’ll let the readers see it in context.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Was this outback or signature solar?

I believe he is referring to a conversation OP had with our team. That being said, we had not ever experienced an issue like this - in fact, in house we cannot duplicate this issue. There is no reason to believe that the sales team had any indication that the battery wouldn't work with his schneider inverter. The units we have in stock and test with worked without issues. Even now, after we purchased the exact same model that OP has, using the exact same battery model, have no issues starting it up even with only 1 battery. I'm not saying there isn't an issue, but it has become apparent that there is an issue with OP's specific set up. What that issue is, we are trying to figure out. This is not taken lightly, we have spent far more than any profit on this transaction in time and money to find out what is going on. We intend to invest further (we have already bought multiple inverters and spent hours on this) to do our very best to find the issue. It would be amazing if we could duplicate this issue, even once, in house. To date, with more that 12 separate batteries and 10+ different inverters and manufacturers, we still haven't. When it comes to troubleshooting, duplication lets you know there is a wide level issue. If it cannot be duplicated then normally it's easier to isolate an issue within the problem system. We are attempting to do this as best as we can from a supplier standpoint.

 

[Mahendra Gomanie]

Duly noted

 

[Koldsimer]

I'm still waiting for a solution. I know that Signature Solar has tried to solve this but i also get the feeling that this is something i'm going to have to deal with on my own. I have tried everything in my power to get these to work with my setup. Several other types and brands of batteries work just fine powering my inverter. I was told numerous times they would work no problem... as I was researching them, purchasing them and picking them up. Always told, no problem they will work just like normal. Asked multiple times to multiple people about compatibility with my exact inverter. scc's etc.. Always told, no problem.

I get the feeling that since they got their Schneider 6848 to fire up that they are going to just write my case off. I give them credit for trying but it's only after they dropped the ball multiple times in multiple ways.

I'm exhausted with all of this to be honest. I hate the fact that I have batteries that I cannot depend on when that was the entire point of this major investment for me. The fear of something going wrong at night and not being able to re-start my system until the sun comes out is well, let's just say i've lost some sleep.


And @signaturesolarrichard , i do not consider your batteries DIY. I could have saved money going the diy route, but i chose to purchase a finished product with all components assembled and functioning. That's not a diy product and with the price i paid i expected some level of support and help. I'm not looking for "special treatment" I just want my batteries to work as promised. Like i said before, I can deal with all the other issues with the stuff you sell- chargers that don't work as advertised, battery cabinet that doesn't secure modules, no power/ground cables with batteries, incorrect product literature, etc.. but the $6k worth of batteries not working correctly is not acceptable.

As @robby suggested, i don't know why your company wouldn't see my proximity to you as a major opportunity to help myself and potentially many others having this same issue. I also don't know why you wouldn't suggest i swap one of my eg4 lifepower batteries with a LL model to see if it works. Seems like a potentially simple solution. But whatever, i'm done making suggestions about this and how to solve it. I've done everything possible on my end and have proven my system functions 100% fine with two other types and brands of batteries. It doesn't take a genius to know it's something in these eg4 lifepower batteries. But your 6848 inverter powers up just fine so....

I'm just going to give it some more time and go from there i guess.





Been thinking about buying an 5000es and going grid tie... any suggestions?

 

[Mr-Sandman]

I understand in @Koldsimer's case he is just under an hour away - but why does one customer deserve special treatment over someone else, simply because he is closer? Trust me - there is NO INCENTIVE to us for our batteries not to work 100% of the time for every possible configuration out there, and if we could do that we would.

It's not special treatment, it's solving an issue YOUR batteries are having with certain inverters. No one expects you guys to travel to country solving every issue. But you have failed to reproduce this issue so far and there is more than 1 person having this issue.

I would already be setting up a time for my engineer(s) to visit @Koldsimer since his less than an hour away and get to the bottom of this for EVERYONE's benefit, including your own.. You not seeing this as an opportunity and having the attitude of "why would we do this" makes me scratch my head. Don't you want to get to the root cause and either fix it or tell your customer base what the issue is?

 

[Mr-Sandman]

Been thinking about buying an 5000es and going grid tie... any suggestions?

That would be a huge downgrade from what you have. No way I would buy a Growatt 5000ES. Maybe you are being sarcastic, hahahaha.