Sol-Ark not a good company to deal with 12k

[robby]

It's not for me, I have no use for their products. They don't fit my needs. I didn't start this thread. It was actually started, about the 12k. It was revived because Sol-Ark has done it again, with the 15k.
If you have a problem with customers feeling like they were scammed. You should take it up with Sol-Ark. They are the reason that this thread continues. Maybe next time they will actually do what they say. But that's doubtful, given their track record.
If they have to put out videos explaining why they chose to call it a 15k. They didn't learn anything from the 12k fiasco.

I see that your not going to touch the Deye power output claim.
We both know it's the same battery Inverter board it's just that Deye is being deceptive and using 60V in their calculations.
It cannot do 16KW on battery with normal packs. It's also a 12KW Battery Inverter that can possibly do 13.5KW if your batteries are at 53V+.

Sol-Ark is the one being honest!

 

[robby]

I'm still perplexed by all this angst over the Sol-Ark's naming convention. It makes sense to me and should make sense to any noob with rudimentary understanding of these devices. Here's the relevant part of the 15k's spec page:

View attachment 122528

It's right there on the second line: "Max PV power delivered to battery & AC outputs", which seems to me to be the MOST relevant number for an all-in-one inverter/charger.

If they wanted to be deceptive, they could have called it the "17K" after the less meaningful max allowed PV power, or the "19.2K" for the max AC coupled input.

IMO, the product name of the unit is, or should be, irrelevant. They can call it the "Model X" for all I care, I'm going to read the spec sheet regardless so I know what I'm getting.

Now a bigger issue IMO that isn't readily apparent from the specs is the 120v split phase leg load limit, but this again was one of first things I learned about when researching inverters for our application. I'm finding there's ALOT to learn in planning a DIY PV power system.

The real issue that some people on here have with the Sol-Ark is the price. Everything else is just envy because they cannot really find a valid issue to complain about. It's so ridiculous that people spend pages and pages of posts arguing about the Inverters model number yet they have nothing to say about how flawlessly it operates.
If Sol-Ark 12Ks sold for $1800 almost everyone on here would have one and they would be singing it's praises. But it's not $1800
and anyone that can fork out the $6k or $8k for a Sol-Ark is seen as some sort of elitists.

 

[robby]

If you are the design team, it is on you to research the data sheets and manuals to know if they will work in your application. It is common in Hybrid inverters to have a single, get your attention number, but since hybrid are many things there is no single number that covers all the functions.

You have the solar input, the grid tie output, the pass-thru ability and backup which has surge and time parameters for example, they all have different abilities. Then you also get into the batteries where voltage windows effects the actual backup abilities, more of a concern in the HV Hybrids.

Sol-Ark is just one of many, they all provide all information needed to verify before purchase if they meet the buyer / installers needs. I see to many leaping into products without understanding they don't know, what they don't know. Hybrid systems are quite complex and it is very challenging designing your own solution, more so to be code compliant!, is for me and I've been in the business for a very long time.

Thank you and well said. This is exactly how I see it.

 

[Ampster]

Please show me where Sol-Ark markets the unit as a 15KW inverter. I'll wait..

In a world where many people don't know the difference between kWs and kWhs the 15k is playing on ambiguity. Show me where it is designed in the USA by Veterans?

 

[robby]

In a world where many people don't know the difference between kWs and kWhs the 15k is playing on ambiguity. Show me where it is designed in the USA by Veterans?

How would I show you that? You would need to get a tour of their Texas facility. I know all of the companies I worked for during the early 2000s designed the products in house and then had them built in China to save money. Chinese engineers I met really sucked. Zero pride in their work and they don’t care about details.

 

[Ampster]

How would I show you that? .....

The question was in jest, as a counterpoint to an earlier question by @B-ManFX4. As far as I can tell it is the same hardware as a Deye or Sunsynk with different firmware, software and Logo in English. Plus it has a UL listing. To their credit, service is great. For many there is value in those factors

 

[misterbubbacat]

Well we agree on one point, never trust the name of any product! Read the Specs and see if it does what you need it to do.
As for the Naming convention we only have one that I know of and that is for Grid Tied Inverters. I suspect that many more Hybrids will come on the market that don't produce the same amount of power from 51V as they do from 400V+ of PV.
As for that Deye info, I suspect that they are using 60Vdc battery voltage to come up with their numbers. I don't see how 51Vdc @ 290A max is going to deliver 16KW of AC.

I not sure if you understand about the LOAD output, the inverter pull power based on the voltage of the battery, example a battery bank of 5*80A(charge/discharge) = 400A, the Inverter rated MAX LOAD charge/discharge 290A and Battery SOC 100%~55.5V The MAX draw on LOAD is 55.5*290A = 16,008W~16KW. It's NOT based on 51V and the voltage will decrease as LOAD and duration increase. Take a look at the Battery ICON on LCD panel on the Deye/Sol-Ark Inverter and you'll see how it works.

 

[Lt.Dan]

I not sure if you understand about the LOAD output, the inverter pull power based on the voltage of the battery, example a battery bank of 5*80A(charge/discharge) = 400A, the Inverter rated MAX LOAD charge/discharge 290A and Battery SOC 100%~55.5V The MAX draw on LOAD is 55.5*290A = 16,008W~16KW. It's NOT based on 51V and the voltage will decrease as LOAD and duration increase. Take a look at the Battery ICON on LCD panel on the Deye/Sol-Ark Inverter and you'll see how it works.

So you agree that when a battery is at 51v, (very typical for a 51.2v nominal LiFePO4 battery under load), it is NOT capable of 16,000w of output?

51v x 290a = 14,790w

This gets even worse at 48v, closer to LVD.

 

[robby]

I not sure if you understand about the LOAD output, the inverter pull power based on the voltage of the battery, example a battery bank of 5*80A(charge/discharge) = 400A, the Inverter rated MAX LOAD charge/discharge 290A and Battery SOC 100%~55.5V The MAX draw on LOAD is 55.5*290A = 16,008W~16KW. It's NOT based on 51V and the voltage will decrease as LOAD and duration increase. Take a look at the Battery ICON on LCD panel on the Deye/Sol-Ark Inverter and you'll see how it works.

Show me a 48V LiFePO4 battery that is holding at 55.5V? For starter you should not even be charging them that high.
A fully charged battery will drop to approx 53.4V as soon as it settles.
Your figure of 16,008W is flawed as your voltage is higher than what can be obtained and even if you use 53.4V this is a best case scenario that will only last for a very short time. Once the batteries start to discharge you will soon be in the 52V territory. Your final figure also shows that your not taking into account the Inverter conversion efficiency. Hint, it's not 100%.
In any case 51.2V is the standard voltage used in calculations for 48V LiFePO4 packs.

 

[timselectric]

I see that your not going to touch the Deye power output claim.
We both know it's the same battery Inverter board it's just that Deye is being deceptive and using 60V in their calculations.
It cannot do 16KW on battery with normal packs. It's also a 12KW Battery Inverter that can possibly do 13.5KW if your batteries are at 53V+.

Sol-Ark is the one being honest!

If Deye can't do what they claim, that's also a problem.
You are welcome to start a thread on it.
I wouldn't mind hearing what people are actually getting out of them.

 

[timselectric]

The real issue that some people on here have with the Sol-Ark is the price. Everything else is just envy because they cannot really find a valid issue to complain about. It's so ridiculous that people spend pages and pages of posts arguing about the Inverters model number yet they have nothing to say about how flawlessly it operates.
If Sol-Ark 12Ks sold for $1800 almost everyone on here would have one and they would be singing it's praises. But it's not $1800
and anyone that can fork out the $6k or $8k for a Sol-Ark is seen as some sort of elitists.

I've never said anything about it's performance. It was on my short list for a while. It's a well built unit. (Other than the single leg limits) my issues have always been with the companies morals. Those are the only two things that removed them from my list.

 

[robby]

I've never said anything about it's performance. It was on my short list for a while. It's a well built unit. (Other than the single leg limits) my issues have always been with the companies morals. Those are the only two things that removed them from my list.

My idea of unethical behavior is putting out Spec sheets that don't line up with what the product will deliver. In every regard Sol-Arks deliver exactly what is listed on the Spec sheets.
My outrage comes when a company says they warranty a product but then try all kinds of tactics not to honor the warranty.
I make exceptions for that when customers becomes completely unreasonable but in so many cases we see people getting stuff from other companies that do not work properly or are damaged while still in the box.

BTW good luck to anyone trying to get any kind of customer service or Warranty on a Deye Inverter installed in the USA.
I paid extra for piece of mind that comes with a better built Inverter with real customer support, a legit 10 year Warranty and the ability to get legally Grid tied and not have to worry about my Insurance company shafting me should my house burn down.

 

[timselectric]

My idea of unethical behavior is putting out Spec sheets that don't line up with what the product will deliver. In every regard Sol-Arks deliver exactly what is listed on the Spec sheets.
My outrage comes when a company says they warranty a product but then try all kinds of tactics not to honor the warranty.
I make exceptions for that when customers becomes completely unreasonable but in so many cases we see people getting stuff from other companies that do not work properly or are damaged while still in the box.

BTW good luck to anyone trying to get any kind of customer service or Warranty on a Deye Inverter installed in the USA.
I paid extra for piece of mind that comes with a better built Inverter with real customer support, a legit 10 year Warranty and the ability to get legally Grid tied and not have to worry about my Insurance company shafting me should my house burn down.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I know that it's easy to get defensive about a product when you own it. I hope that you haven't mistaken my comments to be directed at you for your choices or opinions. My issues are only with the company, not the product. (Except for the single leg limits)
Deye makes top quality products, no matter who sells them to the end user.

 

[Danke]

My idea of unethical behavior is putting out Spec sheets that don't line up with what the product will deliver. In every regard Sol-Arks deliver exactly what is listed on the Spec sheets.

With the updated manual (Aug. 19, 2022), the 15K specs are even better now than when it original came out.

 

[RV10flyer]

Our two 12K’s brought in 72kWh yesterday on December 1, in eastern Kentucky, 38 deg Lat. Note: Most of my 12kW goes into my battery. If you’re doing the opposite, then your battery bank is too small. I can run my 80 gallon electric water heater, all four 16-33 SEER heat pumps rated at a total of 6.25 ton, and I’m usually seeing 5KW load output on both inverters. We’re very happy with them. They have their little flaws like all electronics and humans, I don’t try to make them fail, because I could if I chose to. Then I could make a YT video, but that’s already been done. Besides, my firmware is already updated. The most important thing to me and my family…I have not had ONE power outage since going off-grid, other than several occasions for a couple of minutes during my own testing. If I didn’t do business with any companies or work for any customers without integrity and morals in the USA, I’d have to sit at home and starve most days.

 

[RV10flyer]

This statement is false. “ Sol-Ark currently sells three models of inverter, with names that correspond to the number of kilowatts (kW) of continuous power output. They are called the 5K, 8K, and 12K lines. Sol-Ark plans to begin selling a 15 kW inverter (called the “15K” of course) later in 2022.”

I have two 12k EMP sol-ark inverters and after all the money i spent on these pos i come to find out they can only deliver 9kw ea NOT 12kw that everyone believes! I installed a 25kw array and the only way to get it to put out the max of the array is to drain my battery down, then it will produce 23 to 24kw while it is charging the batteries however as soon as the batteries are charged it drops the system back to 18 to 19kw. I have contacted Sol-Ark and these people will not even respond. I sent a certified letter to CEO, no response. I joined linkedin and message him, no response. I wrote a review on google reviews and someone who claims to be owner will look into it and get back to me in a few days, guess what , no further contact from them. That was over 2 weeks ago. I emailed them , no response. This is not a reputable or legitimate company. They claim customer’s are important to them however their actions say that that is false. Ignoring me or any customer is not good practice. I asked them to swap out these falsely advertised inverters for 2 15k inverters. Is this how good, responsible companies act?

Not “everyone”. I read the specs before purchasing. If your load is 18kW and your battery is topped off, you need a whole lot more battery bank and another 12K on the wall. See my pics above at my typical max pv input and load output. You asked Sol Ark to provide you with 2 15K’s to replace your 2 properly functioning 12K’s. No wonder they won’t reply. If you would have hung around here for more than TWO days, BEFORE purchasing anything, you could have learned a lot and made a more informed decision.

 

[B-ManFX4]

Don't you see that big 15k on the front of the unit?
Disclaimers are deceitful.

I am truly amazed that because you "think" the 15K on the unit means inverter output that it makes the company deceitful. Let's try again - nowhere do they state it is a 15K inverter - it is a 15K hybrid solar battery system. Just because the inverter output appears to be the most important spec to YOU doesn't mean the company views their product that way. For those of us with battery banks the 3KW of charging capability, coupled with the 12KW of inverter capability, is important. 12+3 = 15. Nothing dishonest at all in the number.

There isn't a "disclaimer" anywhere although there probably should be for people who can't understand spec sheets.

Using your thought process I guess Victron is being dishonest with their model numbers too. EVERY SINGLE ONE of their Multiplus inverter/chargers are labeled in VA output, which is much higher than the wattage output. Pretty much every other inverter manufacturer labels their inverter/chargers in wattage output. Is Victron being dishonest? The Multiplus 3000 only outputs 2,400 watts. There is a big 3000 right on the face of the unit. Is this false advertising, even though they clearly define the output wattage in the spec sheets?

It is the exact same scenario.

 

[timselectric]

Of course.
In sales terms it's known as puffering.
Implying that something is what it isn't. (Without actually stating it in a factual manner for liability reasons) it's a marketing tactic.

 

[houseofancients]

Of course.
In sales terms it's known as puffering.

it's a marketing tactic.

and IMHO a crappy one

 

[timselectric]

The thing is that when you are selling a good product (which it is) , you don't need to resort to these tactics.
Maybe they felt like they were stuck, because they already used the 12k name. So, the 12k screw up has created a compounding problem.
Hopefully the next model doesn't output 15k. lol
Then maybe they can finally get on track.