EG4-6500EX-48 Issue

[Zwy]

The flicker can get so bad it's basically a strobe.

I've seen it happen, definitely a strobe. I was experimenting, swapped two circuits around in loads panel and shortly after it was like the good old strobe lights on the disco floor.

I believe I have corrected what caused it, as I said, I was experimenting looking for information/data.

 

[NVCYberPro]

By “fix itself” I meant, increase the voltage property. If you are pulling 3.5Kw then you must be at a higher voltage than 100v. Otherwise you would be pulling crazy amps. But do you have to “reset” it to get it to pull this much in full sun? Or will it start pulling +3KW on its own?

I believe it will, but it has been so long since we had to do a morning reset that I can not say for certain. I will see what happens today, the sky should be fairly clear and we are down to ~40% battery, I will refrain from throwing the switch as long as I can.

Good to know they are looking into it.


I didn’t think to check this. Very interesting. I also didn’t realize you could turn an IMO on like that with the cover off!!

It is not easy to do so.

I have never seen the voltage on either of my split phase inverters be different than 120v or 119v. If I remember correctly, I think the only one that goes to 119v sometimes is the one with the PV issue.

Could this AC output voltage jumping around explain flickering / flashing lights? Seems like it would.

Well it can't help, When this happens (not all the time) I am more concerned that this will effect other appliances and not worried too much about the light flicker.

@NVCYberPro when did your order your inverter? And does it have a sticker on the side with a date? Mine was ordered 10/22. The sticker says 2022, with the 9 punched out. Not sure if this is manufactured date or what.

I ordered it on Dec 23, 2022 and the sticker is punched 10/2022.

Yesterday morning I provided the remaining requested videos to SS and received this message from Ty @ SS.

Dear James,

I hope this email finds you well. I am writing to follow up on the issue that we have been working to resolve for you. I am happy to let you know that I have suggested a resolution for your case and have transferred it over to our Resolution Specialist.

The Resolution Specialist will be in touch with you directly within the next 72 hours to discuss the replacement/resolution options. However, please note that our team will do their best to get back to you as soon as possible.

We understand that your time is valuable and we appreciate your continued patience during this process. We are committed to providing you with the best possible service and we are confident that we can resolve this issue for you soon.

Thank you for your business and I hope to hear from you soon.

Best Regards,

Looks like this is moving along.

James

 

[Adam De Lay]

I ordered it on Dec 23, 2022 and the sticker is punched 10/2022.

Yesterday morning I provided the remaining requested videos to SS and received this message from Ty @ SS.

Dear James,

I hope this email finds you well. I am writing to follow up on the issue that we have been working to resolve for you. I am happy to let you know that I have suggested a resolution for your case and have transferred it over to our Resolution Specialist.

The Resolution Specialist will be in touch with you directly within the next 72 hours to discuss the replacement/resolution options. However, please note that our team will do their best to get back to you as soon as possible.

We understand that your time is valuable and we appreciate your continued patience during this process. We are committed to providing you with the best possible service and we are confident that we can resolve this issue for you soon.

Thank you for your business and I hope to hear from you soon.

Best Regards,

Looks like this is moving along.

James

Sounds like they're gonna replace your inverter

 

[NVCYberPro]

It's not crazy, it is what happens if the ground reference is not at zero.

That is not an inverter problem but a systems problem. I know, I had one inverter that was doing exactly what you showed, output voltage would move from 112V to 126V and I had pulsing lights at the time.

I'm pretty certain my system has been corrected. I was experimenting and testing , step by step to observe various system behavior after reading thru all the problems you read about here. Most people blame the inverter, but in reality it is systems/design problem. I wanted to test a few things, see the results and then change the next thing and see results in the next tests. Part of the learning process and how to understand why you see the abnormalities.

How is this system bonded and how are the EGC's ran? Have any diagrams? One or a pair of inverters?

I have a single EG4 6500 - I have spaced out the equipment and have it ready to add the second 6500 as that was the original design. I am not sure at this point if we will need the extra 6500 for additional load or just additional MPPT's but that is a separate discussion.

The input AC side of the EG4 is wired to a generator outlet on the outside of my basement via 8 awg thhn. The generator is currently not connected but will be used if needed for those prolonged cloudy days and snowy winters as required.

The output AC side of EG4 is connected to a 100 amp sub panel through a 60 amp breaker via 4 awg thhn. Upstairs is our main panel - our main panel is connected to (2) six (6) outlet transfer switches. All of our used circuits from the main panel have been presented on the two transfer switches and balanced according to loads. The 240v circuits in the main panel have been abandoned as we discontinued use of those circuits, exchanging our electric dryer for gas.

The transfer switches allow us the ability to flip each circuit between grid power and solar power independently. This was critical for us and found to be very valuable in the beginning as we originally didn't have enough panels to power our needs.

At this time ALL circuits are flipped to Solar and we have no loads running on the grid, once the bugs are worked out we will be disconnecting that service.

The sub panel below feeds the two transfer switches with 4 awg thhn.

The neutral ground bound lives is the main panel and the new firmware in the EG4 disabled the internal neutral ground bond in the inverter.

RelianceSitePortal

www.reliancecontrols.com

The problem is holding the leads in your hands while moving around. The connection between the measuring point and your leads changes, this changes the resistance and you see the voltage change. If you want true readings, you need a solid connection such as a clamp end to ensure the connection remains constant.

As shown in the video part of it is my fumbling trying to hold everything and the leads tight, however that is not the case for the wild swing as the leads are tight and the swing still occurs, then when the EG4 is disconnected I get a solid reading, still holding the leads. I am not sure how I could have recorded the video otherwise as this was at the request of SS, they wanted to see the PV voltage both before and after resetting the input. Anyway I understand the point, but was limited.

Not unusual, Will even had a recent video about this.

Thank you

 

[NVCYberPro]

Sounds like they're gonna replace your inverter

Although I do not look forward to the work, I do look forward to a fix

 

[Adam De Lay]

Although I do not look forward to the work, I do look forward to a fix

Yeah, I didn't either. Now's the time though if you're like me and had several of those "I wish I would have done...", get those done while the wall's bare.

 

[Adam De Lay]

@mountkay have you talked with SS about your issue?

 

[NVCYberPro]

@mountkay have you talked with SS about your issue?

Yes I have, We are now awaiting a call from their "Resolution Specialist". The Resolution Specialist will be in touch with you directly within the next 72 hours to discuss the replacement/resolution options. However, please note that our team will do their best to get back to you as soon as possible.

 

[Zwy]

I thought my problem was resolved, it came back this morning and output voltage range regulation is worse, before it would go between 112V to 126V inverter output voltage, now it is 111V to 128V.

 

[NVCYberPro]

We still have not heard back from SS or the Resolution Specialist. Our 72 hours is past due.

 

[Adam De Lay]

We still have not heard back from SS or the Resolution Specialist. Our 72 hours is past due.

Unfortunately, that seems to be par for the course lately. Sorry to hear that you're getting wrapped up in it as well.

 

[NVCYberPro]

Unfortunately, that seems to be par for the course lately. Sorry to hear that you're getting wrapped up in it as well.

I do not know if they (SS) are over extended or just dropping the ball.

BTW - I just watched your video on grid charging the batteries, very nice, thank you.

After a really cloudy / snowy day and a half, we had a great sunny day today, basically recharged both our batteries while powering the entire house before lunch. A few days back I did set the unit the use the grid to power the loads / charge the battery when we drop to 25% and then switch back to battery at 30%.

You can see by looking at our electric meter that we didn't do well yesterday and pulled 8.68 kw from the grid.



As seen below the day before we had good sun and were able to keep running over night on battery power. The spikes are from the unit I guess pulling small wattage from the grid on a timed interval? Total draw from the utility was at .78 kw for 24 hrs. I have learned to now disconnect the AC in except on nights when we may draw the battery down to low to keep prevent these utility draws.

I had originally set it to kick on the grid at 20% and off at 25% but I was able to see the battery dip just under 20% before the utility kicked in.

What is the best point to manage this? Its not practical to think that we can turn the grid (or generator backup) off totally until we add another string of panels and 2 more batteries, so for now we simply need to manage load and use based on sunshine and weather. These results are very promising however we do have another 1-1/2 months of probable snowy weather and sometimes it extends into May.

 

[Adam De Lay]

I do not know if they (SS) are over extended or just dropping the ball.

Hard to say. Unfortunately I've had quite a few interactions with various people at SS who fail to respond over time (and I'm talking giving them days and sometimes weeks to respond).

BTW - I just watched your video on grid charging the batteries, very nice, thank you.

Appreciate that!

What is the best point to manage this? Its not practical to think that we can turn the grid (or generator backup) off totally until we add another string of panels and 2 more batteries, so for now we simply need to manage load and use based on sunshine and weather. These results are very promising however we do have another 1-1/2 months of probable snowy weather and sometimes it extends into May.

Unfortunately I haven't figured out a good way yet. I saw someone mention something about a "smart circuit breaker" but even then, there's no way to make things automatic based on battery SOC w/o a lot of customization. With at least part of the idle consumption coming from the AC-In, you'll always be drawing something as long as there's a connection. As I get closer to spring time, if I start noticing extended periods of time where I charge up fully, I'll probably end up turning off the AC-In as you have been doing.

 

[houseofancients]

@BenFromSignatureSolar

 

[Zwy]

I received a response from Customer Support at SS the next day after emailing them. The email back stated this was transferred to Technical Support. Nothing since.

It almost appears they are buying time, partly because they may not have a clue about what is exactly wrong, plus the warranty costs add up and the longer any warranty can be delayed means it doesn't hurt cash flow. Think of it this way, they can put off someone for 2 weeks or longer, then ask what the problem is. Response is, "I will get back to you." After a week, transfer you to some other department and take a few more weeks before someone contacts you, then spend another week or two in limbo. They finally agree to warranty the inverter after you return it (takes a few days for it to get to them) and they test it for the defect, possibly claim it works fine, delay another few weeks while they take it to the Boss man, before finally saying yes, you have a problem, we will replace it. But we won't have any in stock for 2 weeks or so, and once the shipment arrives, it will be a week before we can ship it out.

How many weeks total is that? I figure 13 weeks total. And for those who have been thru the process, is this a close to accurate portrayal? From what I read here, it appears it might be true.

My problem, the output voltage is all over the place on my 2P2 inverter. It's a shame really, it works well otherwise, no other complaints. It is a defect, some units can't regulate output voltage properly. Another member here has the exact same problem, build date was the same as mine if I recall correctly.

 

[Zapper77]

My problem, the output voltage is all over the place on my 2P2 inverter. It's a shame really, it works well otherwise, no other complaints. It is a defect, some units can't regulate output voltage properly. Another member here has the exact same problem, build date was the same as mine if I recall correctly.

Have you tried switching them around?

 

[BenFromSignatureSolar]

We still have not heard back from SS or the Resolution Specialist. Our 72 hours is past due.

As bad as I hate to say it, resolution specialist is farther behind than that. We're 4 to 5 days out at the moment. If today was day three you'll most likely hear from him tomorrow.

 

[Zwy]

Have you tried switching them around?

Swapped breakers around on circuits like the furnace that seem to trigger the change when running. In some cases, it got worse due to the imbalance on the legs.

When one inverter reads a steady output voltage of 120V while the other dances between 111V and 128V, do really think it is circuit related when many times it is 120V steady but just goes off the rails at times? I don't see it, the shared current on the 2 legs should cause both inverters to fluctuate. That isn't the case.

But I can swap the two legs easy enough in the double pole breaker right after the inverter. I'm pretty certain I'll be getting disco fever from the 2P2 inverter.

 

[Zapper77]

Swapped breakers around on circuits like the furnace that seem to trigger the change when running. In some cases, it got worse due to the imbalance on the legs.

When one inverter reads a steady output voltage of 120V while the other dances between 111V and 128V, do really think it is circuit related when many times it is 120V steady but just goes off the rails at times? I don't see it, the shared current on the 2 legs should cause both inverters to fluctuate. That isn't the case.

But I can swap the two legs easy enough in the double pole breaker right after the inverter. I'm pretty certain I'll be getting disco fever from the 2P2 inverter.

Swap your two inverters. Change your settings in the inverters - 2P1 to 2P2 and 2P2 to 2P1. After the swap the faulty inverter will be the primary 2P1.

 

[Zwy]

Swap your two inverters. Change your settings in the inverters - 2P1 to 2P2 and 2P2 to 2P1. After the swap the faulty inverter will be the primary 2P1.

I swapped the L1 and L2 at the breaker after the inverters. Voltage is steadier on 2P2 and now there is some voltage variation (less than what I had on 2P2) on 2P1. Further investigation indicates a subpanel located upstairs that was a service panel back in the 50's or 60's is the culprit. If I turn the breaker off for that panel, the voltage stabilizes and the pulsating lights problem goes away. I rewired 90% of this house when I purchased the acreage 12 years ago, never did anything with this panel as it is mainly lighting circuits upstairs and a few downstairs and the upstairs had already been sheet rocked.

I'll keep narrowing it down, the panel will get replaced first. Then keep breaking it down if the problem continues.