EG4 new AIO rated 12K output and 18kPV aka "EG4-18Kpv-12LV"

[realpinochet]

@SignatureSolarJames
@Luxpower_Gilbert

Any chance we can see higher battery voltage inputs in the near future? Aims now has a new inverter that allows 400V battery input and is stackable. A few other vendors (Sandi/Outback) have or planning on releasing HV stackable inverters. It reduces the wire sizes, lowers working temps for the inverter and battery which helps efficiency and durability. A cooler inverter performs and last longer. A cooler battery and cooler wires means you're using more of your stored energy for loads instead of wasting it in heat. Smaller wire sizes also means cost savings.

Also, wanted to point out I talked to liberty batteries and they said they have zero issues building HV batteries for the public. So it seems like a few vendors are understanding the HV market is growing.

 

[Shimmy]

Any chance we can see higher battery voltage inputs in the near future? Aims now has a new inverter that allows 400V battery input and is stackable. A few other vendors (Sandi/Outback) have or planning on releasing HV stackable inverters. It reduces the wire sizes, lowers working temps for the inverter and battery which helps efficiency and durability. A cooler inverter performs and last longer. A cooler battery and cooler wires means you're using more of your stored energy for loads instead of wasting it in heat. Smaller wire sizes also means cost savings.

Never say never, but that would really surprise me unless you are talking about a product that integrates battery and inverter in a single UL-Listed box. It makes sense when you are talking about something over 20kW and 480/277V three phase, but for residential I just can't see it being logical.

 

[rakitejada]

Maybe you could help me out or at least point me towards a solution because ive been either on hold waiting for someone at signature solar to answer the call or waiting for them to look at the inverter just to tell me they have to escalate it because nothing seems abnormal.

I stated before: i was having a problem with the inverter feeding back to the grid when it has been set to zero export (i can get a hefty fine if i inject without proper permits) but i cant be off grid because my 30kwh are not enough for the complete night. I need the grid for backup usually from 1am to 7am. So their solution was update either or both firmware and software.

There is no feeding back to power because now its always on EPS mode, the graphic isnt like it was before that you could see aolar and battery energy feeding the HOME ICON, now its always like this:
View attachment 159965View attachment 159966

And yes this fixed the issue of feeding back to the grid because the contactors are either on solar/battery power or grid, never mixed. THE BIG PROBLEM NOW is that when batteries run low and “switch” to the grid it takes almost 5 minutes, completely dark at home, it feels like 20 minutes but its 4.5 minutes. I have proof:


View attachment 159967
When out at 2:05am, no power at all until 2:10am… and note that my battery is set to discharge down to 20%, but when it disconnected they were at 23% (i know that with loads ot could've shown them at 20%, thats not the problem really), my first concern is: if the power from grid is available and there it SHOULD SWITCH AUTOMATICALLY without even 5 seconds, and even more if i still have 20% left on batteries.

The other problem is that I DONT WANT the batteries to ever charge from the grid, i have ac charging off, generator charging off, ac coupling off… everytime it charges the batteries for around 1 hour i am getting tired of this. Signature Solar told me last night, after 3 calls and more than 4 hours in front of the inverter that the charging batteries with AC was fixed but the other issues had to be escalated to a tier 2 or level 2 tech. But its 10am and still no one has reached out. Here is proof the charging at 2am


View attachment 159975

Im getting tired of being on hold and calling back and no one getting back to me. My wife told me to put everything back like it was before and take off the the inverter and batteries

A couple of waiting times from yesterday and the first one is from today

View attachment 159976


View attachment 159976

I forgot to talk about my other daily problem:

When the sun comes out in the morning it doesnt start charging nor does it go to eps mode i have to manually “wake it” by lowering the cut off percentage so itll turn on and only then the pv power starts charging the batteries.

I uploaded a video so you can see what i have to everyday when i wake up, told Signature Solar about this, they haven't been able to fix it.

I zoomed in the screen so you could see there was way more voltage than necessary, and at 7:30am already 2500w (it was really at 5500w but the moment of the video there was a cloud passing by) so that was a lot off power not being utilized and drawing power from grid without being necessary.

 

[Zapper77]

I forgot to talk about my other daily problem:

When the sun comes out in the morning it doesnt start charging nor does it go to eps mode i have to manually “wake it” by lowering the cut off percentage so itll turn on and only then the pv power starts charging the batteries.

I uploaded a video so you can see what i have to everyday when i wake up, told Signature Solar about this, they haven't been able to fix it.

I zoomed in the screen so you could see there was way more voltage than necessary, and at 7:30am already 2500w (it was really at 5500w but the moment of the video there was a cloud passing by) so that was a lot off power not being utilized and drawing power from grid without being necessary.

Work around.

1 - Enable AC charge. (Via Webpage)
2 - Set kW at something low like 0.1 kW or higher
3 - Set start SOC higher than your On Grid cut-off %. Something like 23% start and Stop at 25%. Assuming you want to stick with 20% grid Disconnect.


@Markus_SignatureSolar FYSA.

 

[Zapper77]

I forgot to talk about my other daily problem:

When the sun comes out in the morning it doesnt start charging nor does it go to eps mode i have to manually “wake it” by lowering the cut off percentage so itll turn on and only then the pv power starts charging the batteries.

I uploaded a video so you can see what i have to everyday when i wake up, told Signature Solar about this, they haven't been able to fix it.

I zoomed in the screen so you could see there was way more voltage than necessary, and at 7:30am already 2500w (it was really at 5500w but the moment of the video there was a cloud passing by) so that was a lot off power not being utilized and drawing power from grid without being necessary.

Here's the settings that I'm using




Note AC Start needs to be higher than the on grid cut off.

 

[rakitejada]

Work around.

1 - Enable AC charge. (Via Webpage)
2 - Set kW at something low like 0.1 kW or higher
3 - Set start SOC higher than your On Grid cut-off %. Something like 23% start and Stop at 25%. Assuming you want to stick with 20% grid Disconnect.
View attachment 160286

@Markus_SignatureSolar FYSA.

Good morning! Thanks for your reply! This is related to the problem of the AC charging my batteries, correct?

(Im asking because you replied on my other post regarding the inverter not turning on in the morning unless i do it manually)

Thank you so much for sharing your settings and workaround! It helps us a bunch!

 

[Zapper77]

Good morning! Thanks for your reply! This is related to the problem of the AC charging my batteries, correct?

(Im asking because you replied on my other post regarding the inverter not turning on in the morning unless i do it manually)

Thank you so much for sharing your settings and workaround! It helps us a bunch!

This should fix your issue with having to manually adjust your settings in the morning.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

@SignatureSolarJames
@Luxpower_Gilbert

Any chance we can see higher battery voltage inputs in the near future? Aims now has a new inverter that allows 400V battery input and is stackable. A few other vendors (Sandi/Outback) have or planning on releasing HV stackable inverters. It reduces the wire sizes, lowers working temps for the inverter and battery which helps efficiency and durability. A cooler inverter performs and last longer. A cooler battery and cooler wires means you're using more of your stored energy for loads instead of wasting it in heat. Smaller wire sizes also means cost savings.

Also, wanted to point out I talked to liberty batteries and they said they have zero issues building HV batteries for the public. So it seems like a few vendors are understanding the HV market is growing.

HV batteries use shorter life, more pricey cells, and more expensive BMS's, they probably are not at cost breakeven with 60v yet. we are actively keeping an eye on it and any opportunity that adds value we will respond to

 

[realpinochet]

Never say never, but that would really surprise me unless you are talking about a product that integrates battery and inverter in a single UL-Listed box. It makes sense when you are talking about something over 20kW and 480/277V three phase, but for residential I just can't see it being logical.

Why not? Aims has a few models, sandi has a lot of them and outback has one but it requires you to use their batteries at the moment. Makes a lot of sense actually in material cost and equipment longevity as well battery / inverter efficiency.

 

[realpinochet]

HV batteries use shorter life, more pricey cells, and more expensive BMS's, they probably are not at cost breakeven with 60v yet. we are actively keeping an eye on it and any opportunity that adds value we will respond to

Actually I've seen a higher life cycle for HV being touted since thermal management is much easier and they run cooler by default. The BMS you have a point on but much more expensive I don't know about that, seems they are slightly more expensive if the few guys on youtube were being honest. 60V come on..we're talking about 200-600V capable like the Aims and Sandi inverters. Anyways, check out the sandi batteries and see if they can be imported cheaper.

https://www.sandielectric.com/battery-management-systems.html

 

[Shimmy]

Why not? Aims has a few models, sandi has a lot of them and outback has one but it requires you to use their batteries at the moment. Makes a lot of sense actually in material cost and equipment longevity as well battery / inverter efficiency.

A Safe / code-compliant installation is non-trivial. 48VDC is trivial in contrast. As a single UL box it is worth the trade off, but the efficiency gain wouldn't be enough to sway me unless we saw a new class of DC disconnects rated for the voltage and with enough useable poles for midpoint disconnect along with positive and negative.

But I have been wrong before.

 

[realpinochet]

A Safe / code-compliant installation is non-trivial. 48VDC is trivial in contrast. As a single UL box it is worth the trade off, but the efficiency gain wouldn't be enough to sway me unless we saw a new class of DC disconnects rated for the voltage and with enough useable poles for midpoint disconnect along with positive and negative.

But I have been wrong before.

Hmm, the DC breakers like the ones in the AIMS or the ones in the Outback? There's already HV DC breakers that are available..if you're talking about RSD then I have no idea as I don't need those. We're already using 500-600V DC from the panels to the charge controller...what's the difference? I think you're really undervaluing the efficiency for 15kW+ systems as there's a lot of energy lost due to heat in the batteries, wires and inverter. Instead of having to add more and more batteries why not concentrate on efficiency? A safe / code-compliant install shouldn't be much different than what we're already doing unless you're speaking of places like Cali where they don't want homeowners to change a door knob without a permit. Professional batteries pre made with built in breakers and arc fault protection would be fairly safe IMHO. Again, we install high voltage DC from the panels these days safely. And, solark makes a code compliant install simple ..why would they and others not be able to do this for HV? I think between the battery and inverter vendors they can make it safe enough but life in general isn't safe so I guess sometimes you just got to move forward. But to your point I was looking at a 40-50kW inverter from sandi or aims..single unit with DC input about 400-500V DC.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

pls start a DIY cell thread lol

 

[Zwy]

pls start a DIY cell thread lol

Who started it? https://diysolarforum.com/threads/e...nd-18kpv-aka-eg4-18kpv-12lv.61629/post-836552

 

[Supervstech]

I have moved all the battery discussion to its own thread.
Please keep on topic in the thread here…

 

[rakitejada]

This should fix your issue with having to manually adjust your settings in the morning.

So following your guide i set everything like you told me to. Start AC charge at 30% and Stop at 32%. I kept cutoff at 20%.

But i also wanted to prioritize loads before charging battery because i have batteries always charged around 10:30am, so i would rather the power go to the loads as early as the sun comes out and some AC’s are still running. So i set Charge Last to ENABLE.

Let me know if this is correct or i need to check something else.

Another thing: the ac charging confuses me a little, wont the grid try to charge the batteries when they reach 30% and stop at 32% continuously? Im pretty sure your answer will be no, because you would be having that issue, but isnt it confusing?

 

[Zapper77]

Another thing: the ac charging confuses me a little, wont the grid try to charge the batteries when they reach 30% and stop at 32% continuously? Im pretty sure your answer will be no, because you would be having that issue, but isnt it confusing?

View attachment 160430

Yes, Grid AC will charge the batteries at 100 watts between 30-32%.

Edit, How long are you typically on grid during the night? 3-5 hours?

 

[rakitejada]

Yes, Grid AC will charge the batteries at 100 watts between 30-32%.

Edit, How long are you typically on grid during the night? 3-5 hours?

A) Ohhh i got it! and since the draw from the loads will be sooooo much higher than 100watts, it’ll go under 30% almost at the same speed it does every night and the grid will stop trying to charge after it goes 29% and under.

B) Yes. Usually from 1:30am until i wake up around 7am and turn it on through the app with the lower battery cutoff charge the way i explained it this morning.

Hopefully i wont have to do it again with the changes you recommended, I also had a bug in the firmware and got it reinstalled today, maybe that was part of the problem also. We’ll see

Thanks for your guidance @Zapper77

 

[Zapper77]

A) Ohhh i got it! and since the draw from the loads will be sooooo much higher than 100watts, it’ll go under 30% almost at the same speed it does every night and the grid will stop trying to charge after it goes 29% and under.

B) Yes. Usually from 1:30am until i wake up around 7am and turn it on through the app with the lower battery cutoff charge the way i explained it this morning.

Hopefully i wont have to do it again with the changes you recommended, I also had a bug in the firmware and got it reinstalled today, maybe that was part of the problem also. We’ll see

Thanks for your guidance @Zapper77

A. Umm no. At 29% the grid will take over the load and charge your batteries at 100 watts. This will prevent the batteries from dropping below 30%.
(When grid AC charging kicks in at 29% the grid will pick up the load.) You may notice a 3% variation. So your 2% may end up being 5%

30% maybe high. If your batteries are full by 11am...maybe take them lower.

B. So your batteries will charge from the grid for 6 hours for a total grid charge of 0.6 kWh

Are you able to explain. The firmware bug?

 

[rakitejada]

A. Umm no. At 29% the grid will take over the load and charge your batteries at 100 watts. This will prevent the batteries from dropping below 30%.
(When grid AC charging kicks in at 29% the grid will pick up the load.) You may notice a 3% variation. So your 2% may end up being 5%

30% maybe high. If your batteries are full by 11am...maybe take them lower.

B. So your batteries will charge from the grid for 6 hours for a total grid charge of 0.6 kWh

Are you able to explain. The firmware bug?

A. Wow now i feel dumb! LoL ? makes total sense that was a dumb question. Thanks for your patience, maybe at least it’ll help someone else when they read your explanation.

So just so i can understand, the reason we are doing this is because that way the inverter side will remain active thus as soon as the sun can start charging it’ll do so without hesitation nor needing my invervention. Clever

B. Got it now. I’m clear now. Thanks again.

C. Regarding the bug, thats all they told me, no further explanation, they remotely reinstalled firmware and maybe did some other stuff. But im back to feeding the load and not on EPS mode anymore. The grid helped the inverter to charge my car at 11,000w plus 3,000w of the rest of the house, it couldnt do that on EPS mode. It was either the batteries/solar OR the grid, its not able to assist with loads. This is much better i think.

Lets see if i dont get the export problem again. I see it showing it “exported” 0.4kW today.