Need a teacher please

[BSouders80]

Hello from NW Arkansas.

I'm interested in trying to reduce my monthly electric bill by investing in a solar setup to send power back to the electric company.

We have Entergy - so the 2 way meter is doable.

Budget: $1000ish

Is it possible to make a dent in my monthly bill with getting a small setup going? Seeing that I'm not using it as battery backup or anything like that, I would not need the batteries? My kWh usage varies. Low use months I'm around 2990 kWh to 3387 kWh. In January of last year, I was at 5315 kWh. I have a 3500 sq ft house, 2 stories and 2 units outside. If I can prove to myself that a setup can reduce my KW usage, then I can move forward to expand on solar panels and whatever else I would need to increase KW production by the solar panels.

I'm also looking at installing a water boiler stove outside. That should also reduce KW during the colder months.

I have a buddy that signed up for one of the solar farms installed at his house. Works well and his bills are nearly gone, but I'm not going to have a 20 year note and have a payment that was as much as my electric bill.

I'm a newbie. Please don't flame me. Most of my time is spent working or dabbling with hot rods.

Regards,

Brian

 

[MisterSandals]

Is it possible to make a dent in my monthly bill with getting a small setup going?

Probably but unless you are paying quite a bit per kWh of electricity, its unlikely that you will break even, let alone make a profit in the long run.

Low use months I'm around 2990 kWh to 3387 kWh.

How much are you paying for this usage?

Budget: $1000ish

This is a small budget. Lets run some quick numbers.

Lets say you spend half ($500) of this on used 250W panels at $50 each.
10 panels x 250 W = 2500W

2500W x 5h solar = 12500Wh daily

Using 3000kWh per month / 30 days = 100kWh per day (a lot!)

12.5kWh / 100kWh used = 12.5% reduction

With your cost per kWh, we can see how this affects your bills (not much!) and how long to recover your investment.

 

[BSouders80]

 

[Solarcabin Channel]

Your monthly Kwh use is about 4 times higher than the US average.

What are you running that uses so much power?

 

[#40Fan]

Damn. What are you growing that you use 5k in December?

 

[Browse]

Wow...my average monthly usage over the past 24 months is 925 kwh. Those are some big numbers, though I split my energy usage between electric and natural gas.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

View attachment 176473

If I’m calculating this correctly your rate is between .09 &.10 kWh.
Pretty cheap if that’s the case.

5300kwh a month is a lot even for winter months for all electric home.

How old are your Heat Pumps?
Do you know what SEER they are?

It might be more cost effective to look at conservation & efficiency instead of Solar at this point.

 

[chrisski]

I'm interested in trying to reduce my monthly electric bill by investing in a solar setup to send power back to the electric company.

We have Entergy - so the 2 way meter is doable.

Budget: $1000ish

I see no way to make any real dent in your bill with only $1000 that sends power back to the grid.

You may be able to run a few lights, or charge a cell phone, but that will not result in any significant savings.

I also know of no Inverter, Solar Charge Controller or combo that can hook to the grid on a permitted build for that price.

 

[Hedges]

If you are paying the utility company $500/month (is it $6000/year?) then why are you trying to invest just $1000 in photovoltaics?

$500 for 5000 kWh? $0.10/kWh?

Don't bother paying or a turnkey install, amortized over 20 years it will make power for $0.10/kWh (break even) but you lost the time value of your money, could have put in a CD and earned interest.

Depending on local requirements and how aggressively you shop, you could buy hardware and self-install a grid tie net meter system for $1/W and break even in 5 years. Free power or the next 15 years, free after that too (maybe an inverter replacement or modest cost at 20 years.)

Invest $30k now, do a lot of work installing 30kW of panels (e.g. 60 massive 500W panels).

Or spend the same money building a rental unit and get rent income?

Some of us pay 2.5x to 5x the rates you do.

 

[BSouders80]

The house is all electric. Two units. One to cool upstairs and one for downstairs.

Downstairs the ac stays on 68 during the day and 65 at night. When the temps drop, the heat is set to 65. 4 kids and 2 adults. Hot water heater is constantly running with teenagers. The wife is always cold so she always has a 110v heater on in her bathroom. Lots of clothes washing and dryer time.

I would say that’s the bulk of the power consumption. The temps could be changed, but I’m hot blooded. I’m not going to work 12 hr days then be uncomfortable at the house.

I don’t mind wrapping up $25k to 30k.

But I’d like to start out smaller and add to it as time progresses.

Yes, I’ll have the heat pumps checked. We were talking about that at work today.

Thank you all for the input. I’m just trying to get a pulse on solar and see what I could do.

 

[Hedges]

See if utility offers net metering. Find out if price/credit varies with time of day.
If you can backfeed grid for credits at retail during the summer, consume the credits for heating in winter, then you don't need batteries (except to backup critical loads.)

Santan solar has used panels (I prefer quality over disintegrating cr*p). People here are talking about buying pallets of new panels direct from China below $0.20/W. Grid-tie inverters could be $0.33/W more or less. Mounting hardware for panels vary in price.

Price out what you can build, compliant with "Rapid Shutdown" and any other NEC and local requirements.

20 years ago I put in one 2500W system, then several more. These days, you could put in one 7.7kW system (possibly with 10kW or so of panels), and add more later. Figure out what electrical panel/wiring supports backfeeding the size you plan. I would put in a 200A main breaker only disconnect at the meter, no branch circuits. Then one sub panel with 200A main breaker feeds the house, and safety switch to separate "PV aggregator" sub panel supplies the inverters. I think that would work up to about 40kW.

 

[Solarcabin Channel]

I would say that’s the bulk of the power consumption. The temps could be changed, but I’m hot blooded. I’m not going to work 12 hr days then be uncomfortable at the house.

I suggest a whole house energy audit to see how much each appliance is using over a month.

Something seems out of whack with those numbers.

You may need more efficient appliances but if you find the culprit then you can start to design a system to reduce that use.

No hot tub or pool or huge gaming computers?

Are you running any HD tools or compressors for your hot rod work?

 

[Solar Guppy]

Downstairs the ac stays on 68 during the day and 65 at night. When the temps drop, the heat is set to 65. 4 kids and 2 adults. Hot water heater is constantly running with teenagers. The wife is always cold so she always has a 110v heater on in her bathroom. Lots of clothes washing and dryer time.

That's just dumb, running 24/7 heat one room and artic conditions in the remainder of the home??

I've lived in the south for 30 years now and 74 is COLD

You need to find a middle ground with the habitants, or not an just understand the cost

This is NOT a home solar will ever lower your costs for.

 

[Hedges]

With insulation, and maybe a passageway with door at either end to stop air circulation, you should be able to have part of the house warm, part cool.

165 kWh/day maybe isn't that unreasonable for electric heating or cooling of a good size house. But most of that is probably due to heat load (sun heats house), heat leaking through walls and roof, drafts, leaky air ducts. Maybe tackling all those issues will save a large fraction.

We were able to borrow an IR thermometer that would remember temperature of one interior wall, compare to other walls and ceiling.
A thermal imager should give more clear "picture".

 

[BSouders80]

We do have a in ground pool that we keep open from June to about October. Forgot about that. The pump is on a timer to where it runs about 12 hrs a day.

I weld with 220v when needed but on average, maybe 15 mins every 2 weeks. I have a lift but only use it when needed. Not that often.

Thank you for the input.

Brian

 

[Mike 134]

If you want to be grid tied you'll need a bigger budget.
Reasons:
You'll need drawings to submit for permits.
Roof Mounted likely will require a structural engineer to review the roof.
permit costs themselves
These items alone could be between $500-$1000

 

[Supervstech]

The house is all electric. Two units. One to cool upstairs and one for downstairs.

Downstairs the ac stays on 68 during the day and 65 at night. When the temps drop, the heat is set to 65. 4 kids and 2 adults. Hot water heater is constantly running with teenagers. The wife is always cold so she always has a 110v heater on in her bathroom. Lots of clothes washing and dryer time.

I would say that’s the bulk of the power consumption. The temps could be changed, but I’m hot blooded. I’m not going to work 12 hr days then be uncomfortable at the house.

I don’t mind wrapping up $25k to 30k.

But I’d like to start out smaller and add to it as time progresses.

Yes, I’ll have the heat pumps checked. We were talking about that at work today.

Thank you all for the input. I’m just trying to get a pulse on solar and see what I could do.

Ok.
Lets start small.
How many, and what size are your water heaters?

How old, and what seer are your air conditioners?

 

[Supervstech]

The house is all electric. Two units. One to cool upstairs and one for downstairs.

Downstairs the ac stays on 68 during the day and 65 at night. When the temps drop, the heat is set to 65. 4 kids and 2 adults. Hot water heater is constantly running with teenagers. The wife is always cold so she always has a 110v heater on in her bathroom. Lots of clothes washing and dryer time.

I would say that’s the bulk of the power consumption. The temps could be changed, but I’m hot blooded. I’m not going to work 12 hr days then be uncomfortable at the house.

I don’t mind wrapping up $25k to 30k.

But I’d like to start out smaller and add to it as time progresses.

Yes, I’ll have the heat pumps checked. We were talking about that at work today.

Thank you all for the input. I’m just trying to get a pulse on solar and see what I could do.

How tight is the home construction in your house?
If you keep ac set to 68, and heat at 66...
Yiu are saving energy in heating season, but throwing it away in the cooling season.
Where do you live?

I likely can make you FAR more comfortable in the summer at 78 instead of 68.
Lilely you battle humidity, and have watm attic surfaces radiating heat on you.

I would focus here first.

Reduce is ALWAYS better than solar power credit.

 

[Solarcabin Channel]

We do have a in ground pool that we keep open from June to about October. Forgot about that. The pump is on a timer to where it runs about 12 hrs a day.

Well assuming that is a 2000 watt pump running 12 hours a day that is about 800Kwh a month right there. About as much energy as an average home uses for everything in a month.

You are also fighting your AC with heating and may need a more efficient hot water heater and other appliances.

Keeping both levels of a house cool when people are not home is also a big draw.

Sorry Brian but unless you reduce your power use you are going to need a huge system to run that house BUT you could start with a system for that pool and these guys can help you size that.

 

[exmarkretired]

Lots of great ideas above. I saved $100 / month running AC on solar. Next purchase is going to be a Heat Pump Water Heater. I also have an ALL electric house. Moving heat from the house to the water heater is a win win for me. I like my shower, clean clothes and dishes. I especially like the pool pump Idea. I heat with a wood stove. Would like a wood boiler, but not looking forward to plumbing the house. Have 3 friends with outdoor boilers. They use a heat exchanger to heat the HWH water. All the mess is outside and no need to split or make small pieces of firewood. We only make the wood small enough to pick it up.. My nephew only has to load his boiler every other day....depending on the weather...