Solar as a hobby ROI.

Many years ago I installed a manual transfer switch to work with a portable gas generator for power outages. Lights, fridge, freezer, TVs, pellet stove...
Like someone above, power company tree trimming and relocation of a feeder to my neighborhood meant that the generator was rarely needed anymore. Maintaining it in running order was a PITA.
So, I designed a solar system to replace the gen with the idea that it could be 'in production use' all the time and mask any outages.
Secondary concern was zombie apocalypse.
Third was money savings.
A pair of MPP 3k's in split phase (to accommodate the MTS wiring), 5920 Wp of used panels, 15.8 kWh battery (soon doubling) runs many of our every day loads.
Electricity costs $0.10 /kWh here. My electric bill has gone from about $235 /month to $85 /month. Took about 13 months for it to stabilize.
Behavioral changes also contributed.

Spent $7k minus tax credit of about $1900 =
$5100.
$150 /month realized savings =
34 months ROI.
Roughly...
And now getting ready to spend another $1500 on building another battery.
YMMV.

It's a hobby that is motivated by the ROI. I am at about 25k invested.(Solark 12k, 10kw solar, 10 x Lifepower4) Converted furnace to a HP and replaced water heater with a HP water heater, now full electric. Needed a new car, so picked up an EV to soak up the excess solar stored in the batteries. I am looking at a 6-7 year payback. Our energy and gas costs are very high in Ca, so its kind of a no-brainer here.

sunny_c10 said:

It's a hobby that is motivated by the ROI. I am at about 25k invested.(Solark 12k, 10kw solar, 10 x Lifepower4) Converted furnace to a HP and replaced water heater with a HP water heater, now full electric. Needed a new car, so picked up an EV to soak up the excess solar stored in the batteries. I am looking at a 6-7 year payback. Our energy and gas costs are very high in Ca, so its kind of a no-brainer here.

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ROI for you guys out on the left coast is much more attainable than it is for us here in the land of $0.10 - $0.15 /kwh electric rates.

400bird said:

Well, that's where this being a hobby comes in. I added a battery in 2021 and more solar (to directly charge the battery) in 2023. Neither really changed my power bill.

Sure, California rates are higher. But I realize there is an error in my monthly savings, I've never updated the metal model from 2018 rates.

At that point it was $0.18 off peak and $0.20(winter)/$0.37(summer) on peak. Even then, peak was just 4-9 PM.
I think it's about double that now.
I guess I should start thinking of how my solar hobby is saving me nearly $400 a month now!

But, I'm pretty sure elsewhere in the country is closer to $0.18/0.37 now.

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That makes a lot of sense. I think you're pretty close with the rates, here in NV we're around that $0.15 rate off peak and $0.40 on peak. Last year (my first year electing to do the peak rate plan) it was from 3-9pm and I think it was June-September.

I did the peak rates because I had the battery backup system and I would peak shave, never using power from 3-9pm and thus getting to always have a $0.10 rate. Power is certainly getting expensive, just watched a pretty decent YouTube video from a guy going over the corruption and cost people are having to put up with, sad really.

Brett V said:

ROI for you guys out on the left coast is much more attainable than it is for us here in the land of $0.10 - $0.15 /kwh electric rates.

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Yeah were looking at $0.48 off peak / $0.51 peak, its ridiculous.

$7500 to learn how electricity, solar and all components work then be able to build a system that actually works is money well spent. That saying money comes and goes but knowledge lasts forever is so true.

I've spent a good 50k+ on various solar/inverter items over the past 1-2 years. Learned so much and still learning. Hopefully this spring I'll be able to build some solar systems for my airbnbs and start saving some cash.

Many years ago I installed a manual transfer switch to work with a portable gas generator for power outages. Lights, fridge, freezer, TVs, pellet stove...
Like someone above, power company tree trimming and relocation of a feeder to my neighborhood meant that the generator was rarely needed anymore. Maintaining it in running order was a PITA.
So, I designed a solar system to replace the gen with the idea that it could be 'in production use' all the time and mask any outages.
Secondary concern was zombie apocalypse.
Third was money savings.
A pair of MPP 3k's in split phase (to accommodate the MTS wiring), 5920 Wp of used panels, 15.8 kWh battery (soon doubling) runs many of our every day loads.
Electricity costs $0.10 /kWh here. My electric bill has gone from about $235 /month to $85 /month. Took about 13 months for it to stabilize.
Behavioral changes also contributed.

Spent $7k minus tax credit of about $1900 =
$5100.
$150 /month realized savings =
34 months ROI.
Roughly...
And now getting ready to spend another $1500 on building another battery.
YMMV.

I see it as an investment, knowledge, and experience are always paid for. Though, it's slowly turning into a hobby as well.

For me, the goal was always off-grid living, and I ain't waiting till that day comes to start learning this, I'll be way busy making the off-grid work for me then.

I knew from the beginning that ROI on such a small-scale system is just not even worth considering. So I did the second best thing, I asked for a raise the next day and obviously, I knew I was good for it.

Another twelve more months, and I've repaid it all, learned a whole bunch, and have a working system. Plus, I get to keep the raise going forward. Good times

Started out to save on the electric bill, morphed into keeping up with the Joneses timselectric.

Pi Curio said:

I see it as an investment, knowledge, and experience are always paid for. Though, it's slowly turning into a hobby as well.

For me, the goal was always off-grid living, and I ain't waiting till that day comes to start learning this, I'll be way busy making the off-grid work for me then.

I knew from the beginning that ROI on such a small-scale system is just not even worth considering. So I did the second best thing, I asked for a raise the next day and obviously, I knew I was good for it.

Another twelve more months, and I've repaid it all, learned a whole bunch, and have a working system. Plus, I get to keep the raise going forward. Good times

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Sounds like it’s time for another talk with the boss lol

For me solar represents a way to live comfortably miles past the last power pole. I much prefer rustic life in nature and my electrical needs fall well below the average, so a modest solar system will be very ample. The portable system I just built will power our 12v fridge for days as well as keep our phones charged as we travel in search of our slice of paradise.
ROI for us is peace of mind that we can live how we want without concern of a fixed income getting sucked dry by ever increasing rates we have no control over. The $150 a month we pay to the PoCo now will soon be paid to our "Solar Fund" for future upgrades/maintenance costs.

I started out 6 years ago with ~17yr ROI on a small but working off-grid system based on 11c/kwh. I'm up to a large whole-house system now and also a 22yr ROI based on the current 15c/kwh grid.

But there's hope (I guess) as the power company is requesting another huge increase - 2nd in 2 years - due to forest fire protections and ongoing dam removals here in the Pacific Northwest. If they get up to 30c/kwh my ROI will be cut in half! If it goes <10yrs then maybe it's no longer a hobby?

I'm producing about 60% of my yearly home usage.

Multiple reasons. Hedging against future energy cost increases was one, that is coming to fruition with local utility increasing rates by over a combined 20% in the next 2 years. I guess I get a ROI 20% sooner.

Insurance against extended power outages. If you have ever had grid go down for 2 weeks in length, you know what I'm talking about. One of my freezers possibly didn't like the generator either, so it cost me about $500 at the time to replace the freezer a few weeks after power was restored.

I was planning on standby power, instead I shifted that cost to something I could get a return on daily. First plan was load reduction and backup power, before I finished I increased battery bank size to allow 97% off grid living.

We have increased our electric usage by about 15% as we shift heating and other loads to self generated power. Use the excess for something when off grid, even it just means heating your hot water. We live much more comfortably now, it certainly helped with my rheumatoid arthritis.

At the time I entered into this, money market paid a paltry 1% to 1.5%. One might have been able to lock in 3% if they wanted to tie that money up for 5 years or longer. I figured this was a better return long term with increasing energy costs. That has proven to be a good decision. Right now if you are borrowing money for a system, it probably isn't a good investment. If you have the money, 5% can be attractive at this point.

I just built another mini storage building for my storage business. Cost was $54K. Return will be about 8 to 9% a year but I will have to pay income tax on it even though it is a tax shelter. I think my solar system has a better return than that, thus why I am expanding my solar system. Rule of 72 shows if it takes 10 years to get ROI of the cost of your system, then you had a return of 7.2% and you won't have to pay income tax on that money like one would with wages or interest from something like a money market. If you get ROI in 7.2 years then your return is 10%.

For something like my business, a solar system can be fully written off with depreciation. That means any energy produced and used goes right to the bottom line for the business.

One thing I always say about my system is that I'll be able to afford paying the light bill in old age.

How much have i spent on it?
Yes.

Much i can recoup from customers, as im an electrician...
I just installed a few panels at a church customer as a remote carport vehicle trickle charger for the church vans.

I will be setting another on their outbuilding to keep the riding mower batteries charged.

I have a string of panels at the office keeping the electric truck garage doors powered.

Since you are making a profit, the IRS would categorize it as a Business and not a Hobby.

I'll never recoup what we've put in, but that was never even a thought or goal. Freedom is. And no one telling me what time of day I can use power, or how much I can use, or if I can turn an AC on during 120F weather during a grid rolling blackout/brownout, and not losing a freezer full of meat I sat out in the wet and cold for days hunting because of an ice storm bringing power lines down in an aging, failing system where we continue to increase the loads but not the generation leading to price increases. None of that for me, thanks.

However, I never would have recouped the quoted cost of JUST bringing a power line onto the property to where the house is, either.

Mattb4 said:

So are you PV hobbyist, Recreational PV user, EOW (end of world) prepper, Grid tie save/make money PV user, Off grid (willing or no) PV maven

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If I had to choose from your list, it would be hobbyist. However, for me it’s an adventure. I keep bees, crappie and catfish In warm weather have long been a distance runner and in younger years living on west coast enjoyed skiing and scuba (was a diver in navy) and raise chickens- if you ever just sit and watch them it always interesting - a large flock always has a number of problems they are sorting out. I find adventure in all of those. I detest being around large groups of people and find no adventure in TV, if I ever get where all I can do is sit in front of one I’m done….

OffGridInTheCity said:

I started out 6 years ago with ~17yr ROI on a small but working off-grid system based on 11c/kwh. I'm up to a large whole-house system now and also a 22yr ROI based on the current 15c/kwh grid.

But there's hope (I guess) as the power company is requesting another huge increase - 2nd in 2 years - due to forest fire protections and ongoing dam removals here in the Pacific Northwest. If they get up to 30c/kwh my ROI will be cut in half! If it goes <10yrs then maybe it's no longer a hobby?

I'm producing about 60% of my yearly home usage.

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I am not sure hoping for higher electrical costs to make the solar a better return on investment is a good thing. But it certainly could be. Sorta bad news/good news situation.

I wonder if anyone's PV is strictly for medicinal use?

Mattb4 said:

strictly for medicinal use?

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Mental health, all hobbies boil down to that.

Mattb4 said:

Are you getting a ROI?

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Your 25 years to break even stem from your low cost of electricity. In California you break even in under 5 years with DIY.

I built a 24V system in early 2023 for about $7k and it saved me about $1200 last year, that's with only 9 months of full operation. $130 a month. Prices increased 13% on January 1st and will increase again later this year. So it will be at least $1800 in 2024.
It will have paid for itself in 3 to 4 years.

My second system is still WIP but produced so far 330kWh, in under 2 months. I predict 700kWh/mo during the summer months.
Something like 5000kWh in all of 2024. That would be $3000+ in savings. This system cost just under $11k. With power company increasing rates, it could also pay for itself in 3 years.

This assumes that the cheap Chinese components last that long.