hwy17
Anti-Solar Enthusiast
It was never pulled from the NEC. They added a rule to use a better alloy.
Let's fight about aluminum wire!
- Thread starter cardboardboxprocessor
- Start date
zanydroid
Solar Wizard
But where would you get the small yoke devices and splicing doodads for use with Aluminum? Prior to CCA.
I wouldn’t mind it if I found it coming into the mains and it’s the modern alloy. Any where else I wouldn’t like it simply because I don’t like working with it. Absolutely a no way for battery cables where fine strand copper flexibility is desirable.
Im sure it’s probably a different/cheap alloy but years ago I got bit with an Amazon purchase of a bag of bladed fuse holders. They turned out to be copper clad fine aluminum strands. Impossible to strip without loosing strands and easily break with a few flexes. They ended up in the round file can.
Im sure it’s probably a different/cheap alloy but years ago I got bit with an Amazon purchase of a bag of bladed fuse holders. They turned out to be copper clad fine aluminum strands. Impossible to strip without loosing strands and easily break with a few flexes. They ended up in the round file can.
hwy17
Anti-Solar Enthusiast
I'm guessing AL devices and splices were more common in the era when it was popular.
No question that the drop out of popularity and industry support has made it a non option for now. Small aluminum wire isn't even cheaper than copper now, it's a hard to find specialty product for anti theft use in construction.
CCA is a fine alternative to aluminum wire. It meets all NEC codes, and as long as it is sized as ALUMINUM, not copper ampacity, it works great.
My condo was built in the early 80’s, 100% aluminum and CCA throughout. And aside from some Sheetrock issues, has been flawless…
Is it far more fragile when rewiring? Yup… best used as a one run, rip out if changes are needed.
Wire nuts cut through the copper plate, so, mucking about is unwise…
I actually did a walkthrough in a major CCA plant
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 20,788
No, they weren't, and therein lies the problem.
At least for outlets and the like.
I was able to get setscrew splices, connected to an extension of copper to put outlet behind new stove location.
Plenty of things dual rated now.
QO 30A breaker for 14A (!) to 30A aluminum
Likely a very reasonable choice for longer outdoor runs. Ideally underground where it won't flex.
If only it terminated in a pull box away from the house, then no problem at all.
It is used for PG&E's service drop to my house. Wrapped around steel messenger wire (do they really use steel for neutral? Didn't look like there was another metal there.)
What does That! cost do do?!
In the walls of a condo ...
Copper and aluminum have different properties and respond differently to how they carry electrical loads. It is just unsafe to clad aluminum with copper pretending you have a solid copper conductor and than use that as a basis for rating it. So no it is not a fine alternative to either copper or aluminum wire. Does it work? Yes but a lot of stuff works that in hindsight you wish you avoided.
If people want to use it fine. But I will never use it for any place I live in.
Oh yeah, if there isn’t extra conductor length in the box to replace an outlet, it’s no fun.
And no way I would use a wago on the wire. It is like dealing with tinsel strength wise.
Just fine for ovens and dryers where #8 is the minimum size, but working with #12 or god forbid #14(which should be illegal!) manipulating the wires is like wet clay, there is no rigidity to it, no plasticity.
It is like working with a bent paperclip, the wire just brakes when you twist it, it breaks if it is wrapped around a screw, it breaks when you twist too hard with a wire nut…
I have several worn out receptacles in the house, and we just don’t use those outlets. Replacing them requires 15$ outlets with screw plates. Just too fragile to wrap around the screw, and get it tight.
CCA is fine when installed… it is just a pain if disturbed.
A far cry better than the straight aluminum from the 70’s that burned down all the homes.
I also frequently run into houses from then that still have aluminum wiring throughout. Likely still standing because of all the cfl and LED lighting reducing the ampdraw through them…
And no way I would use a wago on the wire. It is like dealing with tinsel strength wise.
Just fine for ovens and dryers where #8 is the minimum size, but working with #12 or god forbid #14(which should be illegal!) manipulating the wires is like wet clay, there is no rigidity to it, no plasticity.
It is like working with a bent paperclip, the wire just brakes when you twist it, it breaks if it is wrapped around a screw, it breaks when you twist too hard with a wire nut…
I have several worn out receptacles in the house, and we just don’t use those outlets. Replacing them requires 15$ outlets with screw plates. Just too fragile to wrap around the screw, and get it tight.
CCA is fine when installed… it is just a pain if disturbed.
A far cry better than the straight aluminum from the 70’s that burned down all the homes.
I also frequently run into houses from then that still have aluminum wiring throughout. Likely still standing because of all the cfl and LED lighting reducing the ampdraw through them…
hwy17
Anti-Solar Enthusiast
I think there's gotta be some aluminum somehow. Aluminum clad steel if that existed or aluminum wrapped around steel.
The aluminum neutral wire drops from poles have a steel wire twisted into the aluminum bundle for strength, to reduce stretching…
Partimewages
Solar Addict
I remember those days. All aluminum wire with a Federal Pacific stab lock breakers that wouldn't trip! Fire waiting to happen
A daily find here in Charlotte… SOOOOO MANY FP panels!
Or would just loosen up and fall out...
My parents' old house had a FP sub and it was a regular thing to hear the panel buzzing and need a breaker pushed back or the lug tightened. We replaced it!
My take on aluminum for electrical installations is it is fine for busbars and service entrance conductors if larger than 1/0. Worked in the aluminum industry for a 10 year stretch and even the engineers that developed the specifications of use for aluminum, would not use aluminum of any type in ther own homes.
Federal Pacific and the Zinco Panels gave me a lot of extra income in the 1990's, and service panel upgrades were bread and butter easy ($$$$)! Did I say I really like those brands? They were good for me, but not my customers!
I liked the aluminum conductors for the service work it brought, but I would never use aluminum for branch circuits.
Federal Pacific and the Zinco Panels gave me a lot of extra income in the 1990's, and service panel upgrades were bread and butter easy ($$$$)! Did I say I really like those brands? They were good for me, but not my customers!
I liked the aluminum conductors for the service work it brought, but I would never use aluminum for branch circuits.
Zwy
Emperor Of Solar
As I once said in one of my videos, "Some people buy $8 coffee's and some buy copper".
Entrance cable, I might use aluminum. Anything else is copper. Even the plumbing in my house and shop are copper. The airlines in my shop are 1 inch copper.
This is the shop heating system, more copper. I love copper.
Sparks-n-Splinters
New Member
I've had bad experiences with Al wire that caused some sleepless nights for several of the reasons already listed. Maybe the new alloys are far better, maybe not.
The peace of mind copper gives me is worth the price.
The peace of mind copper gives me is worth the price.
Partimewages
Solar Addict
And copper coils in hvac was ok in the beginning when thick tubing was used, but when epa started requiring efficient standards, coils were just too thin, and they all failed.
Aluminum lasts. It is superior to copper in wet environments. It has points of failure, but better than copper when done right.
It just has to have more surface area to be as efficient with heat transfer.
Aluminum lasts. It is superior to copper in wet environments. It has points of failure, but better than copper when done right.
It just has to have more surface area to be as efficient with heat transfer.
Similar threads
