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House burned down

This gives me an idea how to better protect parallel batteries. Install current shunt or hall shunt and contactor on each series string. If current sharing suddenly deviates from equilibrium then disconnect offending string. Doing this prevents other good strings from dumping current into shorted string. The hardware to do this already exists on rack batteries in their BMS boards making this only a question of firmware modification.
You have me thinking. Not sure what options other BMS manufacturers have, but the Overkill/JBD has set of pins that are normally jumped to enable the FETs. It shouldn’t be that difficult to come up with a simple op amp comparator to monitor an imbalance between the battery strings and shut down the BMS. That or even get fancy and use a raspberry pi to make it smart.
 
It shouldn’t be that difficult to come up with a simple op amp comparator to monitor an imbalance between the battery strings and shut down the BMS. That or even get fancy and use a raspberry pi to make it smart.
If a cell catastrophically fails, how long do we have to disconnect the rogue battery string? I'm wondering whether monitoring BMS data (which might only be updated once a second), via a RPi, be fast enough to prevent the danger of that type of failure?
 
DC and breakers just don't mix imo. DC arcs are hard to extinguish and it's not a job to be done in ambient air. Class T's do it with sand, and contactors do it in nitrogen. So I built my system entirely with fuses and contactors, no breakers. Well apart from the one that came in my Lifepower4. I should really put a Class T on that now that I think about it.
I have all three. Contractor controlled by REC BMS and then a class T fuse installed in each battery and then MidNite breakers installed in one of their 2000A combiner boxes/bus bar enclosures.
 
Everyone is running out, pointing fingers, and changing out their fuses...the thing I'd like to point out is that every devastating fire I've seen on this forum was using raw cells. Not a single one I can recall use pre-built batteries that were fully contained in metal boxes holding smaller quantities of cells within. I'd argue that the metal boxes are what slow down and often times smother out the fires - Seplos makes some and I think they just make sense if you insist on DIYing your batteries.
Point me out the metal boxes for the CALB 230A cells that you sell and I would be more than happy to buy some.

Would have been more than happy to have bought SOK rack mounts, but the firmware wasn’t ever able to be tuned to fully work with SMA.

In my case, I didn’t “insist.” It was a more of a “have to” DIY. Short of selling my Sunny Islands.

Although knowing what I know now (and if I build a second system), I would probably pair up Victron with Sunny Boys (of which I have plenty of spares).
 
I have all three. Contractor controlled by REC BMS and then a class T fuse installed in each battery and then MidNite breakers installed in one of their 2000A combiner boxes/bus bar enclosures.
Would you happen to have a picture of your midnite combiner box/bus bar enclosure? Do you have multiple mnedc250s in there?

For safety critical stuff like this having redundancy seems almost mandatory for peace of mind if it's located within a dwelling.
 
Sloppy and frugal reminds me of my mother's second husband. They put a cheap 3ft tall 10ft round above ground pool on the back porch. He got it free from someplace. The heater/filter unit for it would have cost a hundred bucks.

So they had a few methods for heating it.

First was a garden hose thrown into the hot tub and attached to a circulation pump, just a closed loop heat transfer system. And it worked for a few months until the heater on the hot tub burned up from over use.

Next he took the hose and attached it to a coil of copper tubing and set that down into a metal 30 gallon trashcan. When the pool got a little chilly he would just build a fire in the trashcan and let the pump circulate water still in a closed loop. Problem with this is the hot water didn't loose enough heat on the loops and the little pump wasn't built for high temps and it died after a month.

So, what is a man to do? Well, he took the electric heating element out of an old junk waterheater that he intended to cut in half to make a smoker out of. Cut the ends off an extension cord. Wrap the naked wires around the back end of the element. Then he drilled a hole in a 2x4 an pushed the element through. Now toss that in the water face down and it did a fair job of heating the top 18 inches of the water. The board kept the element from sinking and the water kept the board from catching fire. Just have to remember to unplug before using the pool.

And they used it like that for 6 months until winter came along and the pool split its side because the little heater couldn't keep up.
Sweet baby Jesus! and people say I am a cheap bastard...
 
@Zwy thanks for sharing your knowledge. After going through the explanations of the Batrium and Blockmon, I am still confused. I guess I like simplicity and that just does not seem to be simple to me. Attaching a PCB to each cell, just does not sound simple.

That was the older cell monitors, the balancing was done right at the cell. The newer K9 is just like running any balance lead. Nothing wrong with using a Blockmon, it actually has a higher balance rate than the K9 unless a fan is added to the K9 to cool the heatsink.

He does mention a shunt trip breaker. I am not sure why this failed to shut down the system. It probably has to do with the other 6 strings of batteries feeding the fire.

The shunt trip would trip, there is no doubt about that. The purpose of the shunt trip is to protect the whole bank from high discharge/charge and to stop charging the bank if a critical fault is detected.

It can not cut off power between each 16S battery unless an expansion board was added with a contactor. Then set the appropriate parameters in the CORE and the expansion board relays trip the contactors.

The OP did the right setup but used a fuse between batteries that was not a Class T. I'm quite certain this is the cause of the fire.


I am using a much simpler approach, in my opinion. To monitor my 128 cells, I am using 4 Overkill Solar BMS's. I can just pull out my phone and see if there is an issue with any of my cells. If one of the Cells fail, then the BMS will shut down the battery bank. All of the current from the Cells go through the BMS's.
The Batrium allows all cells to be shown on a single string. I have a laptop in my kitchen where the Batrium Toolkit is displayed 24/7. We can see cell level data of the whole bank, know what the SOC is and how much discharge/charge is occurring all at a glance.

Depending on a FET based BMS to shut down in case of a cell failure where high currents are involved is questionable. I wish anyone doing that good luck if a cell fails.

The proper method is Class T between each battery. I would not depend on a breaker for this purpose.

OP presumably had a Cell that failed and all that happened was the fuse arced and unfortunately, his house burned down. Having the 7 strings of Cells while relying on some fuse to melt just does not sound right.
It was a case of a fuse that could not interrupt at high current.
 
That is my take on it.

The only thing keeping one battery bank from dumping current into the others was the Mega fuse. Even had the shunt trip breaker the batteries are connected to each other, just not the inverter anymore. So, seems the protection provided the spark.
You are correct, this is what occurred and most probable cause.
 
Ok, fair enough; I originally went through the pictures. Smoking gun from OP in referenced thread.

That doesn't really give the BMS a way to protect the battery.
It works as designed and set up. He could have used an expansion board with a contactor on each battery and let the Batrium trip each contactor and the shunt trip breaker.

Depending on anything other than a Class T fuse between each battery is a not a good choice in my opinion. I really don't want anything mechanical and I want something simple. The Class T will break the circuit without any potential for plasma arcs.
 
OK,


Question to OP - What sort of inspection/maintenance routine did you do?

I expect it will be a while before/if he answers .... since we will hit 20 pages before long.
 
Thanks, I'm excited to find a home for my midnite panel mounts. I see you have them on the negatives, is that because your class Ts are on the positives? Contactor on negatives as well?

The fuses and contactors are on the positives in my setup.

IMG_0396.jpeg
 
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