diy solar

diy solar

House burned down

The fuse could have blown because wires melted from the fire and shorted.
Yes, anything is possible. I am just going off what the OP said about the fuse melting and arcing. He did say that the fire inspector referred to that general area as the combustion source. My takeaway from this thread was the importance of Class T fuses in the right places to mitigate the consequences of a short in a cell or in wiring.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zwy
I don't think the fuse is to blame. The OP reported that some of the cells had leaked and he had to replace them. Most likely some cells shorted.
Yes, the fuse is to blame for the fire. The cause of the fuse failing is most like due to a cell shorting internally. Follow along with the rest of us.

Class T fuses only. If a Class T was used, and one cell shorted internally, all that would probably have occurred was the Class T fuse would blow, power would be cut off to the battery containing the bad cell. The cell may have vented but it would not have started a fire.

What part of anything I have written in this thread you don't understand? If you believe you don't need a Class T fuse for this application, then do as you desire. My posting is to possibly prevent someone from making a mistake that leads to catastrophic failure.
 
Yes, the fuse is to blame for the fire. The cause of the fuse failing is most like due to a cell shorting internally. Follow along with the rest of us.

Class T fuses only. If a Class T was used, and one cell shorted internally, all that would probably have occurred was the Class T fuse would blow, power would be cut off to the battery containing the bad cell. The cell may have vented but it would not have started a fire.

What part of anything I have written in this thread you don't understand? If you believe you don't need a Class T fuse for this application, then do as you desire. My posting is to possibly prevent someone from making a mistake that leads to catastrophic failure.

What if you used a Class J fuse?
 
The fuse provided an ignition source for sure; it is also likely that it made the fire more difficult to put out.

But in terms of a roof-cause analysis you either need to say cell failures are inevitable, and the lack of BMS string isolation was the root cause, or you say that the cell failure was an extraordinary event and the root cause.

Moreover, with cell failure you have what I understand to be an anomaly in a cell failing shorted to the point that other cells enter thermal runaway. For a cell to fail shorted are we looking at things like dendrites that escalate a small, high-resistance short into a dead short, or some catastrophic event that creates a dead short?
We don't know what cells were used, whether these were some sub grade cells, how the cells were cycled other than most likely the discharge was not high due to the large size of the bank.

If a Class T was present, it would have blown and any current to that battery with the failed cell would have ceased. Class T blow pretty quick, I blew one today overloading an inverter with a large surge (12V system). No fire, just done in about 1/2 second as the Victron inverter attempted to start the load. No melted wires, no drama, just a blown fuse.
 
What if you used a Class J fuse?
Have you looked at the specs? Interrupt is similar to Class T, but I'm not certain how the Class J is constructed. According to what I have seen, the Class J has a time delay. That may be too long with a very large current flowing.
 
Yes, the fuse is to blame for the fire. The cause of the fuse failing is most like due to a cell shorting internally. Follow along with the rest of us.
You don't know that. The fire inspector said so, but that's a convenient answer. Fuse can blow for many reasons. The reason that caused this fuse to blow could have also been the source of the fire.
 
You don't know that. The fire inspector said so, but that's a convenient answer. Fuse can blow for many reasons. The reason that caused this fuse to blow could have also been the source of the fire.
I'm 99.999% certain it was the fuse.

The 0.001% I'll leave up to you.

I will only add, if you don't think you need Class T fuses for this application and attempting to justify your position because you don't have Class T fuses installed, I can only wish you the best of luck.
 
What if you used a Class J fuse?


It is time delay, you have to hit 10x the rated current to get to 1 sec. At rated current you are looking at 10+ minutes.

This is instead of 6x current for 0.01 sec
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zwy
I'm 99.999% certain it was the fuse.

The 0.001% I'll leave up to you.

I will only add, if you don't think you need Class T fuses for this application and attempting to justify your position because you don't have Class T fuses installed, I can only wish you the best of luck.
Where the hell's that coming from? I have class T fuses. That has nothing to do with anything.
The only thing we do know is that the fuse blew and that it arced. We do not know for sure the order of events, nor what caused the fuse to blow.
 
Where the hell's that coming from? I have class T fuses. That has nothing to do with anything.
Then why are you disagreeing with me? :)

The comment is not directed at you, it is for those that don't use a Class T fuse for this application. You on the other hand, have looked at the situation and made the right choice.
 
Last edited:
I am not sold on any of these hypothesis
I am sold on one hypothesis, which is a case to case short within a pack and the fire was unstoppable from there. But I've been trying to avoid coming into OP's thread and arguing with the fuse theory because of the sensitive nature of the situation. His fire inspector has identified the fuse and I understand how he needs to proceed with that.

Same case with the other fire. Circuitry was originally identified as the cause, and hotly debated, but I suspect it was case to case as well. Also not gonna try and press that OP on it either.
 
Have you looked at the specs? Interrupt is similar to Class T, but I'm not certain how the Class J is constructed. According to what I have seen, the Class J has a time delay. That may be too long with a very large current flowing.
Mostly I'm giving you the gears.

There are 3 or 4 different types of J fuse you can get that range form time delay to fast for protecting drives with large currents and high available faults....

Why I bring this up....
I remember these big exide battery chargers I used to fix I think they were 300 or 400 amps.

Diodes as big as beer can ( well close )
Some used a T some had J installed.
We used them relatively interchangeably on those chargers ( to be very specific ).
J was rated for 600 volt T I don't think it was rated above 250 or 400 volts dc or something

My point is its a stoutly build fuse with a lot of interrupt capacity and the ability to deal with the heat of clearing a fault

These are some fuses I used on the K 1050E Kiruna both in the main converter and chopper drives ( one fed form a trolley line one a large battery bank to a DC drive and traction motor )
1714604324089.jpeg
Even has a little striker in it to indicate its blown ( a common feature in an industrial fuse )

Those are god dam expensive, a good fuse is not a cheap thing....
In a previous post in this thread I saw some stuff like this.
1714604447104.jpeg
I've seen this on light vehicles and they do not inspire much confidence in me.
I helped a mechanic make a fuse holder for one of these a couple of weeks ago actually, for a solar system and I did not give it much thought because, its not my cottage.

Now back to those Exide chargers.
I made some fuse holders for them too to convert them from T to J
I made it out of nice thick piece of glasstic stand off from a Silvania motor starter switch with some red brass bolts .
Never had a problem...
But those light duty fuses I see like the one above is really light duty looking.

I'm not going to say you should pick one fuse over another since T seems to be the standard but I am going to say use a good semi conductor fast acting fuse and a decent stout holder to contain and arcs or burn through.
Fusing is not a place to cut corners.

Aliexpress and Ebay are full of cheap Chinese fuses and fake parts too.
Just because something says it a certain thing you should question if its Chinese and a really good price.

No I did not get the T to J conversion blessed by an engineer.
I just did it because we were short of T fuses at one point and I know the J would work and no one was looking over my shoulder.
I did talk to some guys up in engineering years later over coffee and they were not impressed.

I'm going to go talk to that mechanic and see if I can talk him out of what he was going to do.
And making something out of something handy.
Might use a J fuse lots of them around... Ahem.
( Added later after reading some others posts... I might find some old stock T fuses in the car barn where the last electric Loco was used the spares cabinet... might still be there, might be a battery charger of some sort with fuse holders I can strip.... I'm going to heed the advice myself and look for T, although I think the fast J is probably fine )
But a proper fuse and holder are a major safety concern.

Don't anyone listen to anything I say!
Its all 100 percent opinion form some guy on the interweb with both an opinion and anal sphincter everyone has at least one of those.
 
Last edited:
The reason that caused this fuse to blow could have also been the source of the fire.

I don't follow your logic. What kind of fire source would start spontaneously? I understand your theory of melting wires but usually that is caused by over current which fuses are designed to protect against. So in my logic that circles back to failure of the fuse which caused the wires to heat up.
 
I don't follow your logic. What kind of fire source would start spontaneously? I understand your theory of melting wires but usually that is caused by over current which fuses are designed to protect against. So in my logic that circles back to failure of the fuse which caused the wires to heat up.
I'm just saying it's too easy to blame the fuse. If they could prove it, that would be great, put my mind at ease. But, I have 48 cells in 3 DIY batteries, soon to get doubled. I'd like to know it wasn't something else that caused it being masked by the fuse. I don't have any idea what could have been the cause of a fire, but nobody knows why the fuse blew either.
 
I am sold on one hypothesis, which is a case to case short within a pack and the fire was unstoppable from there. But I've been trying to avoid coming into OP's thread and arguing with the fuse theory because of the sensitive nature of the situation. His fire inspector has identified the fuse and I understand how he needs to proceed with that.

Same case with the other fire. Circuitry was originally identified as the cause, and hotly debated, but I suspect it was case to case as well. Also not gonna try and press that OP on it either.


Case to case short. So neg connected to neg. But also pos connected to neg with a bus bar. This cell is going to discharge super quick and overheat. This pops the vent. At the same time the battery it is part of drops by 3.4v. Now go back to my last post about what happend when a cell is shorted. The current will blow the fuse, but it will also heat the wire and fuse to the point of open flames. Now the vented hydrogen ignites.


All of this happens in just a few minutes.


And at 4am there was likely only one thing on with enough draw to affect things.

OP has a hottub whichis between 30 and 50 amps. He talks about hooking it up near the end of his powerwall thread. My hottub circulates the water all the time and only heats when the temp is low. Older hottubs use a timer to limit electricity use to certain times of day.
Mine is a small one with a 5kw heating element in it at 240v. But it also has 2 motors, a 1/2 hp that spins all the time and a 2hp motor that powers the jets.

All that said I doubt the 'event' was in any way load related.

Makes me wonder if there is an upper limit on parallel batteries. With every battery protected by a class C or any other ignition safe fuse that can extinguish the arc it is pretty safe. And having batteries in fully enclosed metal cases separate from each other would also help.
 
Last edited:
Where the hell's that coming from? I have class T fuses. That has nothing to do with anything.
The only thing we do know is that the fuse blew and that it arced. We do not know for sure the order of events, nor what caused the fuse to blow.

I have class T fuses and Midnight breakers, and I havealot of questions about this. not the install, the OP did a great job. I think he would have been better with class T, but something happened somewhere to cause the mega fuse to pop. I stopped using Mega fuses when I stopped installing 12 volt stereos... that was like 25 years ago.

something that is 48 nominal I would have never tried with a fuse that started out as a 12 volt itemand was "upgraded" to 24 and then 48. the space inthe quench chamber is not large enough. just my opinion of course.

that being said, something casued a heck of a lot of current to pass through that fuse and that could have been the start of it. the fuse might have caused a secondary hot spot or it might have been the primary. I bet it was secondary, and the real culprit was elsewhere.
 
I am sold on one hypothesis, which is a case to case short within a pack and the fire was unstoppable from there. But I've been trying to avoid coming into OP's thread and arguing with the fuse theory because of the sensitive nature of the situation. His fire inspector has identified the fuse and I understand how he needs to proceed with that.

Same case with the other fire. Circuitry was originally identified as the cause, and hotly debated, but I suspect it was case to case as well. Also not gonna try and press that OP on it either.
real easy way to fix this issue. by nylon cased cells like winston, sinopoly or calb. no worries about shorting cases, and I still have as of yet not heard of a battery bank fire caused by them.
 

diy solar

diy solar
Back
Top