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Signature Solar wins... I lose.

Again this is all in one section on your site. I mean this honestly please forward this information to people when they purchase. Even a phone call would be stellar! If it truly is the shipping companies vs SS and the customer we need to be a team.
Typically if someone places an order online it's because they didn't want to talk on the phone - and even then, we don't have the resources to make a phone call on every order. I agree - we do need to be a team. That's why we have the notices about what needs to happen for a successful claim.
Not everyone has the ability to unpack 22 panels on the spot without it being unsafe. When I did unpack them I had one extra person helping and it was still a little tricky to not drop the stack over on itself.
I know it's hard. But you took a video, which showed the damage (I'm not sure if you just didn't see it, but we also send instructions to inspect your delivery with our shipping notice and notate damage) and you didn't notate it with the driver and additionally you signed and accepted for the delivery which indicates it was delivered in an acceptable state (this is an agreement between you and the shipping company). This is a big deal and is the problem - you blindly accepted the terms, blindly accepted the delivery, and then are upset when both the delivery company and Signature Solar follows to the letter what you have agreed to.
I had a hard time finding this info. When I went back into the checkout page this is what I saw:
You had a hard time finding the info you agreed to? This is a large part of why this problem exists.
Do you not insure the shipments? Genuine question. Would the fact that I have video evidence of the damage as it came off the truck matter at all?
Yes - insurance is provided to a degree by the shipping companies (this is how you make claims). Third party insurance (which we do work with) refuses to insure glass on LTL shipments, and the companies that do allow it make it so expensive that it's not worth it - it is actually less expensive to simply refund customers for broken panels than to add insurance to every order. Maybe I'll research to see if adding an 'insure' button on checkout makes sense - but I highly doubt it will because for panels it would equate to like 25% of the order total. As far as the video - unless you opened the shipment on the same video showing the damage, all that has to be said is that only the packaging was damaged and the product was damaged after it was released. There is no way to prove either way.
I would agree with you if it were some sort of willful negligence.
I mean, you literally clicked 'I agree' to something that you have made clear that you didn't actually agree with (or read). I don't know what your definition of 'willful negligence' is in this matter but the facts speak for themselves. It's not a game of russian roulette (a game of random chance). It's a game of statistics, and they show that there is going to likely be shipping damage in a certain percentage of shipments and we've done everything we can to mitigate this risk, but in the percent of people who do have damaged goods we have policies created that are agreed to by the customer and we follow those policies. If you didn't agree to the policy regarding damaged panels or had questions, you should have contacted us for further explanation or not clicked 'I agree'.
Perhaps expanding out the box for future customers would be helpful.
I'll look into the code to see if this is possible easily, and if not myself or our developer will hand code it.
...that's the only email I got. I remember the only way I was even able to get to tracking number was to login and go to the order. I just looked through my spam and I am not seeing any other emails either. (Perhaps you guys have an email issue on your end?)
I just verified in the logs that the email for shipping was sent to the email you input during checkout (the same one the order confirmation went to). It 100% left our email server - you may want to verify with your email provider that they aren't preventing emails from us. Much like sending a letter in physical mail - as soon as you drop it in the box you have no control over it and if your mailman is throwing away your mail you need to talk to the post office. I'm happy to pull the email headers and provide them in to assist you if needed.
She could of refunded part of the shipping, offered a credit on a panel and then get me to buy the 3 others.
I will refund a % of the shipping based on the additional cost of 1 panel - but to be fair, it's not going to be a large amount because each extra panel only adds a small amount to the total shipping. A majority of the cost comes in with the first panel due to palletization. The extra weight of each panel is negligible to the total. But I will issue this refund. You can choose to use it towards purchasing 4 panels (which I will absolutely set up for you if you'd like) or not - your choice 100%. (I actually just checked and the difference in price between 21 panels shipped and 22 is the exact same - regardless I'll just issue a refund for 1/22 of what you paid for shipping).
There needs to be a serious conversation to be had about your business model if the process of getting your product to your customer is this big of an issue. This is a nightmare I am sure for you guys and as you can see it kills customer service. There has to be a better way.
We use standard LTL carriers - this isn't a Signature Solar issue - it's an issue across the board for solar panel companies. And as others have pointed out in the comments, it's an issue that is being addressed by all these companies in pretty much the exact same manner: Refund broken panels and don't ship less than 4 panels at all. Acting like this is something unique to Signature Solar is misleading to others at best.
Signature Solar is definitely not at fault on this one
Thanks bud!
If I had bought those panels purely online like the OP I would probably not have scrolled down and seen that 4 Panel message and I would have also been surprised.
Don't tell me you are the kind of guy who clicks 'I agree' to stuff you don't read when buying expensive stuff....I don't believe it! Not for a minute!
it is just too expensive or takes to much time to make a customer whole.
We did make him whole - we refunded the entire cost of the damaged goods, and in fact I've also refunded him a prorated amount for his shipping (even though adding 1 panel doesn't change the cost)
Your shipping examples show minimal protection. LEAST amount of damage is not a good goal, no damage is what normal customers expect and receive every day.
If you start a shipping company that guarantees no damages, ever, on deliveries, and can back it up (without being significantly overpriced) - you will be a billionaire by the end of the year. I'd urge you to start this business today and I'll ensure Signature Solar is your first customer.
Amazing the panels can make it all the way from China to Texas undamaged.
We literally have about 2000sqft of warehouse space dedicated to damaged panels. They definitely don't make it here undamaged. We inspect every inbound shipment for damages and set aside anything that is damaged. It is never included in our inventory for sale - we have a damaged goods buyer who visits on site to haul it away.
Well, I stand corrected.
It's appears that SS has done everything that was agreed to. If you check the box, without reading what you are agreeing to. You can't blame anyone but yourself.
Thanks Tim. Your logic is spot on.
 
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Well, I stand corrected.
It's appears that SS has done everything that was agreed to. If you check the box, without reading what you are agreeing to. You can't blame anyone but yourself.
Yes, he agreed to it.

I wouldn't have bought from SS from the get go after numerous reports of the problems members have reported with ordering panels from SS.

I bought mine from San Tan, they use a shipper that doesn't damage the panels.
 
I know this is a DIY forum and I'm very much a DIY'er myself. These kinds of occurrences are frustrating but go with the territory. If you had hired a solar contractor to do this, they would have been responsible and absorbed the cost of replacing a broken panel. As a DIY'er, you assumed that responsibility but didn't prepare by ordering an extra panel or two. That was poor planning, especially when dealing with ultra strict permitting and inspection state like California.
 
I know this is a DIY forum and I'm very much a DIY'er myself. These kinds of occurrences are frustrating but go with the territory. If you had hired a solar contractor to do this, they would have been responsible and absorbed the cost of replacing a broken panel. As a DIY'er, you assumed that responsibility but didn't prepare by ordering an extra panel or two. That was poor planning, especially when dealing with ultra strict permitting and inspection state like California.

I repair my cars and do general installation, maintenance and construction. A DIYer. When I order a tool or product, if it is damaged, I get another one for no additional costs. Amazing.
 
Your tools are also not fragile pieces of glass strapped to a pallet.

Yes the shipping companies should take better care of things, I agree. But some things are always going to be inherently more prone to damages.
 
Amazing, I have ordered panels from Renogy both orders came very well packaged, via Fed Ex and zero damage so it can be done. Two of the panels were packaged as singles..... zero damage.
 
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Yes it can be done. It has been done. But it sucks when you get that guy who just doesn't care.

One FedEx driver just shoves our packages out the back end of his truck in the middle of our driveway and drives off. Or complains he can't back in our driveway far enough to do so and just won't deliver. Everyone else just stops on the road and carries the package to the garage or front door.
 
I've been watching these Signature Solar experience threads.

Here's my take. If I own a business, I ship you something, you receive it damaged, you're getting another one at your door ASAP.

That would be my policy. I would jump hurdles to make sure these unsatisfied customer threads are not popping up like this.
 
I didn't want to make this as I hate playing the "poor me" card. I am hoping that someone who is on the fence with purchasing from Signature Solar might hesitate a bit or at least have a better understanding of what could happen if you are in a similar situation.

I will keep this short.

05/13 - Bought 22 panels from SS. I used their more premium cost of shipping via Fedex Freight. I paid $796.18 in shipping.

05/17 - SS shipped panels.

05/26 - Received a pallet of 22 panels from Signature Solar shipped via Fedex. I recorded the pallet as it came off the truck. It was packaged well and had some minor damage on pallet but no dents or hard knocks on the corners.

06/02 - I unboxed the pallet and found 1 panel to be shattered. It had a forklift style knock on the backside and it was the outside panel. I reviewed my video and sure enough there were 3 puncture holes on the outside of the shrinkwrap. The damage was visible on delivery but wasnt unless you completely unstrapped all the panels.

06/02 - I reach out to SS via their online form to let them know of the damage. It was after hours but I wanted to let them know anyway I could ASAP.

06/03 - I call in to tell someone over the phone as I am seeing shipping claims are time sensitive. I speak with Dana. I let her know I have video of the damage that should help with SS getting their money back with shipping or filing an insurance claim. I tell her I really need a replacement as I can't install my panels unless they match the quantity and brand of the permit that was issued to me by my county. She tells me that there is some new policy that she isn't sure if it is on their website that they can only ship replacements if there are 4 panels or more damaged. She says to fill out a form she emailed me and she would get back to me. I fill out the form and attach photos and links to video right after getting off the phone.

06/03 - I receive an email back with a canned response (some sections were not even filled in) that I would only get a refund for the 1 panel and that is it.

I responded to Dana that without all 22 panels the entire set is useless and unable to be installed. Dana refused to ship the replacement panel as part of an internal policy.

Dana let me know the only way I would get the replacement panel would be to buy a minimum of 4 panels. I would be refunded the cost of one and I would have to pay for the shipping as well for a total cost of $1,112.18
I pressed Dana to confirm that the only way I was able to get a working set of panels was to pay more money to Signature Solar to ship me out more panels than I needed for the set to work. She confirmed that would be the only option. I attempted to file a claim with fedex on SS behalf and Dana asked me to hold off as they want to make sure they are reimbursed for refunding me the one panel.

~~~~~~~~~
So now what?
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I researched everything and Dana is 100% right. They have zero obligation to send me another panel. SignatureSolar wins. My solar build is now being held hostage unless I purchase 4 more panels for $1,112.18.

As Dana says...
" This will conclude our obligations to you ... Signature Solar has fulfilled all ends of this transaction. You have received your shipment, with one damaged panel that we are fully refunding the amount of the panel back to you, as well as the shipment was received by you and that obligation has also been fulfilled."

At this point I am going to reach out to my County and hope they let me finish the build minus 1 panel otherwise I will need to resubmit the permit app.

Let this be a warning if you are buying panels that you buy way more than you need and if they are broken make sure at least 4 of them are broken.
Can you go ahead and complete your build using the broken panel, then replace it once a new panel arrives? It shouldn't be too difficult to swap out a single panel, or not wire it into a series in the first place.
 
It seems like a lot of people are commenting and not even reading the explanations lol.
Here's my take. If I own a business, I ship you something, you receive it damaged, you're getting another one at your door ASAP.
We tried this for months. It just doesn't work to flat ship a panel of glass across the country - they break 99% of the time. If we do this we have to factor those costs and the additional costs of shipping an entire pallet for 1 panel into our overall costs, increasing our prices at the expense of shipping more shattered panels. Nearly every company that ships panels has the same policy we do.
 
It seems like a lot of people are commenting and not even reading the explanations lol.

We tried this for months. It just doesn't work to flat ship a panel of glass across the country - they break 99% of the time. If we do this we have to factor those costs and the additional costs of shipping an entire pallet for 1 panel into our overall costs, increasing our prices at the expense of shipping more shattered panels. Nearly every company that ships panels has the same policy we do.
Then the Shipper Does not know how to pack and ship! See my post above, Zero damage on 4 Shipment's total. Correction it was Seven Shipments!
 
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It seems like a lot of people are commenting and not even reading the explanations lol.

We tried this for months. It just doesn't work to flat ship a panel of glass across the country - they break 99% of the time. If we do this we have to factor those costs and the additional costs of shipping an entire pallet for 1 panel into our overall costs, increasing our prices at the expense of shipping more shattered panels. Nearly every company that ships panels has the same policy we do.

I did read all the explanations.

Just my opinion of course: It's all cost of doing business. Either your cost is unhappy customers voicing their grievances on a public forum, or the cost of beefing up shipping so the replacement panel gets to the customer.

Which one cost you the most in the long run?
 
It seems like a lot of people are commenting and not even reading the explanations lol.

We tried this for months. It just doesn't work to flat ship a panel of glass across the country - they break 99% of the time. If we do this we have to factor those costs and the additional costs of shipping an entire pallet for 1 panel into our overall costs, increasing our prices at the expense of shipping more shattered panels. Nearly every company that ships panels has the same policy we do.
Way too much jibber jabber and useless excuses from shipper.
Blah blah blah seems to be what you offer.
Refund the customers $$ and stop trying to justify very poor packaging by you, the seller.
If this is so common as you assert, it would ultimately be YOUR responsibility to prevent such damage by designing better shipping protection around your fragile merchandise. Or only sell local.
 
I got flat shipped panels from CA to central IL. First set of 16 arrived with the top one busted because the corners weren't well secured together.

The guy I bought them from quickly agreed to ship me a replacement panel and I opted to buy a second "just in case" either there was another shipping issue or I broke it on assembly or whatever. (figured i could use the extra for a portable setup or something)

Second set of 2 came shipped flat entirely encased in a crate. no issues.

so based on what i've personally experienced (as well as all the comercial sites that get truckloads of pannels for megawatt installs) yes shipping flat is 100% doable.
 
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Refund the customers $$
If you would have read this, we literally did refund his money. That's why he's mad. This is exactly what I'm talking about.
Then the Shipper Does not know how to pack and ship! See my post above, Zero damage on 4 Shipment's total. Correction it was Seven Shipments!
I posted pictures of our shipping method. This is the recommended method per the manufacturers (standing panels vertically strapped to a pallet). We also attach corner pieces to protect against bumps and have several large warning stickers and collapsible cones on all 4 sides. I don't know when you last ordered solar panels, but it's been a very bad year for LTL shipping lanes and it shows in the increased amount of damage we see. I posted pictures of our shipments - let me know what you would change specifically.
 
yes shipping flat is 100% doable
I agree - it is doable. It simply costs an exorbitant amount of money and our entire business model is around minimizing costs for DIYers. It is for this reason we have a policy (that is agreed to by the end customer) that they will receive a refund of damaged panels and that we strongly recommend purchasing a spare or 2 during the initial order. And again, I'd like to emphasize - this is not just our company that follows these policies (in fact, we are one of the few that will refund single damaged panels) it's a large amount of the industry.
 
If you would have read this, we literally did refund his money. That's why he's mad. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

I posted pictures of our shipping method. This is the recommended method per the manufacturers (standing panels vertically strapped to a pallet). We also attach corner pieces to protect against bumps and have several large warning stickers and collapsible cones on all 4 sides. I don't know when you last ordered solar panels, but it's been a very bad year for LTL shipping lanes and it shows in the increased amount of damage we see. I posted pictures of our shipments - let me know what you would change specifically.
Shipping safely and securely is your job.......Not the customers...
 
Shipping safely and securely is your job.......Not the customers...
When did I say that it is the customers responsibility? However, I 100% believe it is his responsibility to read the terms he clicks to agree to that explicitly state that less than 4 damaged panels will be refunded, not reshipped. We literally followed the terms of the sale that he clicked and agreed to exactly as they are spelled out without any deviation. I simply explained how we ship panels - again - because it seems like you didn't read it or see the pictures before you commented.
 
Way too much jibber jabber and useless excuses from shipper.
Blah blah blah seems to be what you offer.
Refund the customers $$ and stop trying to justify very poor packaging by you, the seller.
If this is so common as you assert, it would ultimately be YOUR responsibility to prevent such damage by designing better shipping protection around your fragile merchandise. Or only sell local.
Or, sell nationally with a notice that damages of 4 panels or less will only be refunded? And then, follow through on that? (edit: facetious, richard, facetious)
 
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let me know what you would change specifically.
I think there's 2 issues at play here:

1. Customer accepted terms and conditions and didn't fully read them all. I agree that it is the customer's responsibility to read all T&Cs and it appears the customer is at fault here for not doing so. However, the customer still has an unresolved issue--he needs 22 panels, not 21. I hope @RichardfromEG4 understands that there's a difference between "right" and "dead right". At the end of the day, SS is the one that will lose a customer if the issue here isn't resolved for the OP. You're literally forcing your customer to support your competitor. If OP says he's willing to buy $10k worth of batteries, then maybe you can ship out that single panel alongside those batteries, or work something out like that.
2. Shipping glass across the country is a tough problem to solve, but it can be solved. But I ordered a Renogy panel off of Amazon, and it came in a thick form-molded styrofoam-like material that gave it absolutely no room to move. If you've ever ordered a 4-pack of EVE LiFePo4 cells online, you'll know the material I'm talking about. But the panel arrived safely from normal Amazon UPS delivery. And it was a PITA to even get out of the box. Also in bulk, you could do a wooden crate or metal steel container. It would raise the costs on shipping, but it's being done though. Folks have been shipping glass in containers like this for decades.

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Hey Richard maybe offer a shipping option that reflects the costs of shipping < 4 panels flat in a crate...
 
When did I say that it is the customers responsibility? However, I 100% believe it is his responsibility to read the terms he clicks to agree to that explicitly state that less than 4 damaged panels will be refunded, not reshipped. We literally followed the terms of the sale that he clicked and agreed to exactly as they are spelled out without any deviation. I simply explained how we ship panels - again - because it seems like you didn't read it or see the pictures before you commented.
Signature Solar was perfectly within their rights to resolve the situation as they did. It is a logical economical decision.
Or, sell nationally with a notice that damages of 4 panels or less will only be refunded? And then, follow through on that?
Bingo. Make the terms easier for the purchaser to factor in the risk. Sell more panels at the same time.

Really though, it seems like better packaging and handling is what is needed because breakage is wastage.
 

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