Signature Solar wins... I lose.

[bertiojones]

Where are you located?

Butte County, CA

 

[rhino]

California has some pretty strong consumer protection laws maybe you should call the state office for help. I don't see how a company can get away with not refunding or replacing the panel and instead insisting you buy even more product to "replace" the one you had paid for already. At minimum you should get an immediate refund on submission of image showing the damage.

You may be able to find a similar panel with exact dimensions if you look.. A lot of them are just rebranded.

 

[bertiojones]

I had a County permit and I don't remember him counting my 23 panels. He did require me to zip tie some loose cables that were touching the roof.

I am fingers crossed that they don't count them. The glaring hole of racking might give it away though.

 

[bertiojones]

California has some pretty strong consumer protection laws maybe you should call the state office for help. I don't see how a company can get away with not refunding or replacing the panel and instead insisting you buy even more product to "replace" the one you had paid for already. At minimum you should get an immediate refund on submission of image showing the damage.

You may be able to find a similar panel with exact dimensions if you look.. A lot of them are just rebranded.

That is where the catch 22 is.

Refunding one panel is what they are doing which on paper sounds great. One broken panel is one refund.

The problem is to replace that one broken panel I would then need to buy 10 more panels to get the one I need.

Had I broken 4 I would have 4 replacements on the way. (Almost makes me wish I had just taken a hammer to 3 more! Stupid I know)

I also was told by Dana that she might be able to get me an exception to buy 3, give me one free as a credit and I would pay the shipping. That would let them hit their 4 panel minimum. After looking at their policy though I didn't qualify because it was only 1 broken panel. That is where the
$1100 to replace one number comes from which I found out that I don't even qualify.

Now its 10 panels or nothing.

I might of found some 440w Longi panels with the same dimensions through CED. I need to give them a call.

 

[robby]

View attachment 97569

Well anyone who buys that is not thinking long term. I originally bought 24 x 365W LG panels and then realized I could hold four more. Getting the Extra four was easy with EcoDirect. If I had used Signature Solar I would have had to buy 10 Panels and waste $1500 on extra panels that I could not use.

 

[chriscappuccio]

With the prices of each distributor, their policies make sense. If you want more flexibility, pay a little more to EcoDirect. You want the lowest price, go to Signature. As long as their policy is stated up-front and made obvious, I don't have a problem with it. I would just order a few extra and have them in the case of things happening.

 

[Koldsimer]

Real Cold Blooded Signature Solar....

View attachment 97566

Hey, at least the owner hasn't come in here to insult you..... yet.

 

[JoeHam]

I am fingers crossed that they don't count them. The glaring hole of racking might give it away though.

I might mount the broken one without wiring it up and hope that draws less attention.

BUT, you shouldn’t have to deal with this BS.

Whoever put their fork through it should be buying the new panel(s).

 

[Shimmy]

Just the permitting was setup with 22 panels. In California the County might not be happy when it comes time to inspect and they see a missing panel.

Best case is they don't care and sign off.

Worst case is they make me resubmit for the permit which would require a lot of work.

Also I have racking installed in that slot ready to go which I could try and repurpose after I get sign off with a similar panel but once again not ideal.

I am not seeing anyone that sells a single Solarever 445 watt

Install the broken panel for permit, but disconneced. It should not impact inspection as long as your strings are balanced.

 

[400bird]

I'll just say the situation sucks.
I'd install 21 panels. If the inspector gives you a hard time, explain the situation. If they still won't pass it, go hunt down a replacement or amend the permits.

I measured my roof incorrectly and had to shift some panels around. I submitted the changes and when the inspector came by he asked why I bothered to submit changes. I redesigned the position of half of my array, I thought I would have to. His response: ?‍

Call Amex either way. They may help.

 

[RV10flyer]

I always get 10% more materials than I need. It's paid off for thousands of jobs over the years. I will never understand why anyone would order the exact amount on something that cost so little compared to the cost of shipping just one. Spend another $400-600 and give up one day on this summer's vacation.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Hey everyone. I really have to jump in here because I see these threads all the time - and for some reason it seems that people really like to pick on Signature Solar specifically even in instances like this where it is 100% out of our control. I'm going to hopefully address everyone's concerns and explain the what and the why behind these decisions. Here we go:

I didn't want to make this as I hate playing the "poor me" card.

This is in reply to your entire post - I just didn't want to eat up a ton of space. When it comes to solar panels, we try to be abundantly clear and post it on our website and in multiple places: DO NOT BUY THE EXACT NUMBER OF PANELS YOU NEED. Screenshot of one of the many places below:
Especially in the last year, there has been a SIGNIFICANT increase in damages during shipping. This I'm sure can be attributed to a number of things, but there have been 2 overbearing issues to deal with because of this: 1) Shipping companies literally are denying almost every claim and forcing hours of time to be invested to finally win a claim. Especially with solar panels specifically - in fact, several LTL companies (the only ones who ship solar panels at all) have begun enforcing a policy where they will not reimburse for solar panels - period. Part of shipping with many companies (for solar panels specifically) includes agreeing that you understand panels are not covered and they will not accept claims on them. For the companies that do (which are the ones we do our best to do business with), there is always another issue. 2) The quality of shipping has decreased dramatically, resulting in MORE damaged shipments, LONGER wait times to get through with a claim, INCREASED denials of claims (even with great pictures etc!). So it's really a horrible experience for EVERYONE - including Signature Solar.

We also need to know about damage ASAP - typically any claim outside of 48 hours of delivery is automatically denied because it could have been damaged by the end user. Again - we specifically point this out, screenshot attached:

You notified us 7 DAYS after delivery regarding the damage. Even if we made a claim, there is nearly a 100% chance that it will be denied because of this single reason.

She tells me that there is some new policy that she isn't sure if it is on their website that they can only ship replacements if there are 4 panels or more damaged.

This is 100% policy that nearly every solar panel company follows. 95% of the time or more, shipping less than 4 panels stacked vertically means they will ALL be shattered upon arrival, and you will simply be paying to ship broken panels to your house. It's also extremely expensive - regardless of how many panels you ship, it requires a pallet of space on a truck and cannot be stacked on (except when shipping companies don't listen and stack stuff on them causing them to shatter). So to ship you 1 more panel would cost an entire pallet worth of shipping charges in addition to the fact that the panel would nearly 100% show up shattered again.

ALL THIS BEING SAID - we issued a refund because it really does not make sense to send out a panel, and even though Dana will make a claim to try to be reimbursed for the 1 panel that was broken, like I said before, there is a very large chance that it will be denied due to how long it took for us to be informed of the damage. We issue these refunds regardless because you shouldn't pay for a broken panel - but this is exactly why we try to be so blatantly clear about buying panels.

They always tell everyone to order extra panels for your build to cover this exact situation. It's unfortunate that your panel was broken but in these current times people should expect damaged panels due to negligent shippers. It's something that's out of every distributors control.

Thanks for this, it is 100% out of our control and we do our best to make sure people are aware of this. Some people ignore the warnings, but they inherit the risk when they don't listen to our warnings.

There's no good reason why they can't.

I normally agree with you, but I hope you can read my response above and understand the futility of sending 1 additional panel. I honestly cannot think of a time when we sent 1 panel (we used to do exactly this, by the way - and 99% of them arrived shattered and the customer was even more upset) and it survived.

I am incredibly empathetic to their shipping issues with carriers. That is why I offered to be a partner by documenting everything well and helping out with the FedEx claim. It just felt like they got their money so the rest is on me. Not the relationship I was expecting.

I totally hear where you are coming from - but where was this effort prior to the issue? Why didn't you heed the warnings and order a panel or 2 extra, as Signature Solar recommended? Why didn't you follow the LTL shipment inspection advice and verify the shipment prior to accepting it? You could have completely mitigated the issue to begin with. And - even though you didn't, they still refunded you the panel knowing they are unlikely to be reimbursed for it.

Did you specifically order 21 in "new" cond. panels and 1 "damaged" panel? If not, then Signature needs to send you 1 in "new" condition Panel. Signature should have an Insurance policy shipping via FedEx to cover shipping damages

Did you pay with CC? If so, file a complaint with your card and they will probably back you up on this one. You could also give Signature the courtesy of buying back the entire 22 unit pallet and of course they pay the shipping to (plus refund your entire $ amount) and pay for their own shipping back

Don't let them win

I'd be inclined to agree with you - except he SPECIFICALLY AGREED TO EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED IN ORDER TO EVEN CHECK OUT:

This screenshot is from the final page of our checkout where it literally spells out this exact scenario, and REQUIRES you to agree in order to complete the purchase. Like, why is Signature Solar the bad guys when they are literally begging people NOT TO DO what he did - and then following up by doing exactly what they say they are going to do if this happens?

I am looking at doing a Chargeback through my American Express.

I'm confused about this - you received your product, were refunded (per the Terms and Conditions you agreed to during checkout) for the damaged product. Are you saying you plan to chargeback the entire amount? That legitimately sounds like you want to commit fraud because Signature Solar followed the procedure they told you they were going to follow.

the only person who seems to know how to do things properly is Richard.

Eyyyy. I'm really starting to love all the kudos people give me - although I did get warned today because I provided our phone number in a post .

She explained that a single panel will not survive shipping and that the minimum amount they will ship is four panels. She asked if I fully understood my options before she processed the credit card. I told her yes.

YEP - I promise it's not just a Signature Solar thing - it's across the board pretty much.

The problem is that they did not lay out all the other details before taking the money.

We definitely did. There are like 5 things that people agree to prior to purchasing, and then we also email with the same terms and conditions on the order receipt and the shipping receipt. You really have to go out of your way to try to not be told - and also blindly click to agree to a T&C in checkout. And - just in case he placed his order over the phone I just went through our system, manually found his order, and verified he placed the order online and 100% had to go through the terms and conditions to checkout. No tricky business here.

I'm going to start another post because I'm afraid all the work I took to type this one up might get lost!

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

If I had gotten a broken panel there was nothing to complain about, I was told up front that I had options and if I decided not to take them them this is what would happen.

Yep - so was he. In fact, he AGREED to them in order to even buy from us.

I tried to meet in the middle with Dana and have her refund the shipping and I would buy the other panels but there was no movement.

I don't know what to say - it's much easier to 'meet in the middle' when the middle is disregarding the numerous warnings, agreeing to informing of damages within 48 hours and not, agreeing to be refunded for damages of less than 4 panels and then being upset when that is what happens, and expecting a company to pay to ship a single panel (which still requires a pallet and costs ~3-400 dollars to ship by itself AND it will STILL likely show up completely shattered) and then use the money refunded from the original shipping to simply pay for the panels.

Why on Earth would the minimum order be 10 panels? Are you sure about that?

New orders require 10+ panels typically - literally an attempt to avoid the massive amounts of damage we see when shipping smaller quantities. If a customer requests, we can ship as little as 4 panels manually.

can get away with not refunding

We did refund the panel.

At minimum you should get an immediate refund on submission of image showing the damage.

He 100% did.

If I had used Signature Solar I would have had to buy 10 Panels and waste $1500

We are happy to manually accommodate as little as 4 panels - for new orders it defaults to 10 due to the huge increase in shipping damages. Have you ever seen an entire pallet of solar panels arrive with 2 fork lift holes all the way through? I have!

With the prices of each distributor, their policies make sense. If you want more flexibility, pay a little more to EcoDirect. You want the lowest price, go to Signature. As long as their policy is stated up-front and made obvious, I don't have a problem with it. I would just order a few extra and have them in the case of things happening.

Yep. We actually go out of our way to try and stop people from ordering the exact amount they need.

Whoever put their fork through it should be buying the new panel(s).

If only it was that easy JoeHam.

I'll just say the situation sucks.
I'd install 21 panels. If the inspector gives you a hard time, explain the situation. If they still won't pass it, go hunt down a replacement or amend the permits.

I measured my roof incorrectly and had to shift some panels around. I submitted the changes and when the inspector came by he asked why I bothered to submit changes. I redesigned the position of half of my array, I thought I would have to. His response: ?‍

Call Amex either way. They may help.

I'm not here to say the situation doesn't suck - for EVERYONE involved. It sucks because he has possibly an issue with his inspection. It sucks because he disregarded the warnings and notices. It sucks because he agreed to the policy we followed and yet is upset enough to post on the forums. It sucks because Signature Solar lost money on a panel by giving a full refund even though they won't likely see anything from the shipping company, and why? Because it was signed for and no damage was noted on the delivery, and it was after the 48 hour timeframe the shipping company gives for most claims.

I always get 10% more materials than I need. It's paid off for thousands of jobs over the years. I will never understand why anyone would order the exact amount on something that cost so little compared to the cost of shipping just one. Spend another $400-600 and give up one day on this summer's vacation.

Yep.

Finally, in my next post, I'll post a few pictures of how we ship panels. You will not believe how far out of our way Signature Solar goes to try and prevent damage to these guys during shipping. The fact that any get damaged in shipping is beyond me, but it's not for lack of trying to make sure everyone knows what is being shipped.

In summation, I really wish I had the perfect answer. I'll be honest - I know you are in California, but if it really is an issue we do allow in store pickups of single panels. Maybe if you know someone in Texas you can have them come buy one and ship it (and also accept the liability of it arriving shattered - which I can guarantee it almost 100% will) or hand deliver it (which is likely the only way it will arrive undamaged if I'm being honest). I really am not being facetious when I say this either - I truly believe this is the ONLY way you would be able to have 1 panel shipped without it shattering. Hope my long winded explanation is satisfactory for everyone here as to the how and why behind this issue, and how the original post was extremely 1-sided in the amount of information provided.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

Here is exactly how we package all our panels - this method is tested and results in the LEAST amount of damage. Then, we go out of our way to mark it on all 4 sides, put a fragile cone on top, mark it fragile - glass, tell the shipping companies the NEED to use a LONG FORK only. Please - can anyone point out anything else we could do that would not exorbitantly increase shipping costs? I'd love to hear it.

 

[robby]

The OP did not make it clear that he was told four was the minimum. Since he checked the agree box then I think he really cannot blame anybody but himself. I know that your right in that anything under 4 will break for sure, that was made very clear to me by EcoDirect. I really hope he does not try a refund via Amex, they are ruthless when it comes to defending their members. They will refund almost Instantly and then Investigate. It will most certainly be a long drawn out process that in the end will not benefit anybody.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

The OP did not make it clear that he was told four was the minimum. Since he checked the agree box then I think he really cannot blame anybody but himself. I know that your right in that anything under 4 will break for sure, that was made very clear to me by EcoDirect. I really hope he does not try a refund via Amex, they are ruthless when it comes to defending their members. They will refund almost Instantly and then Investigate. It will most certainly be a long drawn out process that in the end will not benefit anybody.

I hope so too. I hate to say it but I 100% screenshotted this forum post just in case it needs to be added to evidence for a chargeback claim. It would feel like straight up fraud to me if there was a chargeback request on this. I know SS isn’t always in the right, but I’ve noticed a lack of personal responsibility a lot of people have in the DIY community in general.

 

[onokai]

The deal with truck shipping is inspect the shipment while the driver is there and NOT sign off if you see damage.
I had AC unit dropped off a year ago one box on a pallet had tong holes in one create (forklift Tongs).
I told the drive we had to open and inspect before signing paperwork we did and it was ok by 1 inch .If its damaged do not except package period. Just saying. I get lots of truck shipments over a lifetime and its always look before signing off. Any damage and you have to check it out.
This is just another shipping damage that one should not except. The whole deal goes back and gets resolved by the shipper and the trucker. Not the end customer . Once you sign its yours no matter what

 

[Danke]

I had this just happened to me. But I found one before shipper left and another one shortly after he left. So on one, he did take picture of damage and noted it on paperwork.

But I did not order online, it was over the phone and no, this policy was not mentioned when I ordered.

 

[Solar Guy Richard]

I had this just happened to me. But I found one before shipper left and another one shortly after he left. So on one, he did take picture of damage and noted it on paperwork.

But I did not order online, it was over the phone and no, this policy was not mentioned when I ordered.

Yep - I verified the purchase was made online. If it was a phone purchase I likely would be trying to find the recording but even then - it’s in the order receipt and on our website and the shipping notification.

 

[Danke]

Yep - I verified the purchase was made online. If it was a phone purchase I likely would be trying to find the recording but even then - it’s in the order receipt and on our website and the shipping notification.

Whose order?