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Signature Solar run around?

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Max Q

Vitamin Naruto
Joined
Jul 3, 2020
Messages
59
Purchased 2 of the lifepower4 24v batteries from them at the end of May '22. Received them at the end of June '22... problems from the very beginning. Their capacity was set to a 48v battery (100Ah. Should have been 200Ah) and the voltage seems to be regulated to 26.5v as it won't charge above that. Guy had me hook up to a PC enter a password into the QT BMS monitoring software and change the capacity settings. Cycled a few times and the voltage STILL regulated @ 26.5v. It's been 2 months of cycling and it still hasn't changed. They won't admit fault and keep telling me to cycle the batteries and the BMS will "learn" and stop regulating at 26.5v. I've never heard of any other battery doing such things.

... But let me say, if I've been irate with them at all... it's because I live in a van and I need this to work. Technically the batteries "work".... I just can't monitor how much capacity I have left at any given time, even if I were to add a Victron Smartshunt to them. I bought the batteries without the screen because I knew I'd be installing them in an area where I can't see them. The voltage is regulated after it hits about 20% - 30% SOC. Meaning once they charge to 26.5V at 20% - 30%, it stays at that voltage all the way to 100% SOC... I can't make sense of any of it. Nor can I get direct answers to my questions from their tech support. They just keep telling me to cycle the batteries... or that I need to contact my SCC manufacturer for charging config. I spent $3,222 on these batteries. So I'm a bit irritated that they're not working as advertised when I'm on the road. I'd be a little calmer if it was for a home build as a side hobby. But I'm relying on these for my main source of power. And as far as I can tell, none of the issues I'm having are due to any fault of my own. They just keep giving me the run around over, and over, and over, and over... ad nauseam.

Am I overreacting or are they gaslighting me? Has anyone ever heard of a BMS that regulates voltage, or needs to "learn" to stop regulating the voltage? This is completely new to me.
 
Max Q said:
the voltage seems to be regulated to 26.5v as it won't charge above that
Click to expand...
What happens at 26.5? Does the BMS disconnect? Or does the voltage just hang there as the amperage drops?

Have you measured the voltage with a volt meter?

What are you using to charge the battery?
 
The only thing that I am aware of is the BMS terminating charge due to individual cells going over voltage from a imbalance in cell level state of charge. This can be worked out some of the time by a number of cycles. This sounds like what they are trying to get you to do.
 
400bird said:
What happens at 26.5? Does the BMS disconnect? Or does the voltage just hang there as the amperage drops?

Have you measured the voltage with a volt meter?

What are you using to charge the battery?
Click to expand...
It keeps charging until full. The capacity is there, the voltage just won't change. I charge it with my SCC usually. But I've also had it on a battery charger. Edit: Also, I measure it with a volt meter, nearly always. I stop using the volt meter so much because my SCC reads the same voltage accurately. Nothing I do to the batteries seems to matter. Nothing I say to tech support seems to ever go anywhere. No resolution to any of this for 2 months now.

@acdoctor I've watched the individual cells through the QT software and they are all balanced enough, within a couple hundred millivolts. Doesn't matter if it's at 20% or 100%, the voltage is still 26.5v. Doesn't make sense.
 
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What is your charging voltage set to? What is your float voltage set to? What amperage are you charging at? 3.3215 volts per cell is somewhere in the middle of the the SOC. could be anywhere from 30to 70%. Not above or below those.
 
acdoctor said:
What is your charging voltage set to? What is your float voltage set to? What amperage are you charging at? 3.3215 volts per cell is somewhere in the middle of the the SOC. could be anywhere from 30to 70%. Not above or below those.
Click to expand...
SCC settings shouldn't matter if I'm getting the exact same results from a battery charger supplying CC/CV. So I don't follow your reasoning. Charger is 24v/12A. Edit: Pardon me.. the charger reads the voltage and supplies it with just above what it reads at a constant current, until full. It's victron. Like I said, nothing I've done has produced any changes.
Tech support was cool, but then acts smug when he goes to hang up after I say "thanks" he's all "hmmph...~click~"
None of this was my fault.
 
Last edited:
Max Q said:
It keeps charging until full.
Click to expand...
Who or what says the battery is full?
Max Q said:
The capacity is there, the voltage just won't change.
Click to expand...
Does the SOC change?
Max Q said:
I measure it with a volt meter, nearly always. I stop using the volt meter so much because my SCC reads the same voltage accurately.
Click to expand...
Ok, good. Sounds to me like we can trust the voltage readings? Everything basically agrees? They all say 26.5 (ish) at the same time.

Max Q said:
SCC settings shouldn't matter if I'm getting the exact same results from a battery charger supplying CC/CV. So I don't follow your reasoning.
Click to expand...
Sure, but the batteries aren't a bottomless pit. At some point they fill up enough the voltage must increase. Full is somewhere between 3.4-3.65 volts/cell. 3.3 volts is right in the wide open middle.

The charge controller sets the upper limit to how high it will charge. If the charge controller is set to 26.5 volts, it's going to go into CV mode at 26.5 volts. The battery and BMS don't have control over the charger, right? Do you have some communication (like a rj45) cable between the battery and charger?
 
400bird said:
Who or what says the battery is full?
Click to expand...
The QT software
400bird said:
Does the SOC change?
Click to expand...
Capacity, yes. Voltage, no.
400bird said:
Ok, good. Sounds to me like we can trust the voltage readings? Everything basically agrees? They all say 26.5 (ish) at the same time.
Click to expand...
Capacity is there, but not voltage. This was the initial issue when one of the batteries had to be adjusted from 100Ah to 200Ah in the software. I've charged and discharged it several times. I would expect to see some sort of incrimental change, like maybe holding at 27v, and then maybe 27.2v or something.... but it's always the same, no matter what. I'm telling you, it makes no dang sense.
400bird said:
Sure, but the batteries aren't a bottomless pit. At some point they fill up enough the voltage must increase. Full is somewhere between 3.4-3.65 volts/cell. 3.3 volts is right in the wide open middle.
Click to expand...
All I can figure is that there is some other setting that needs to be changed in the BMS,, but I can't get a straight answer from tech support. Just more "give it a few more cycles"... which, as I've told them multiple times, has produced ZERO CHANGES... although I thought it almost did once, it actually didn't.
400bird said:
The charge controller sets the upper limit to how high it will charge. If the charge controller is set to 26.5 volts, it's going to go into CV mode at 26.5 volts. The battery and BMS don't have control over the charger, right? Do you have some communication (like a rj45) cable between the battery and charger?
Click to expand...
It's not set to 26.5v, never has been. It's set to spec as per the spec sheet... which is something like 30v if I recall correctly. I have my SCC off right now as I discharge. Charges another battery of same chemistry right up, no problems. It's all something to do with the janky BMS they're using.
 
I would like to applaud everyone on the thread here for asking more questions in the past hour than tech support ever has in the 2 months worth of back and forth. So thanks for that. But I've already been through all these scenarios in my own head. Only thing that makes sense is some setting that needs to be changed in the BMS, as the last setting change actually did change the capacity, but not the voltage.
 
Ampster said:
Try lowering your charge controller settings so the BMS does not constantly trip.
Click to expand...
It's not tripping. My settings are to the battery specs.
I keep saying that I get the same results even when I use a battery charger. No one seems to acknowledge that, even tech support. It's the BMS settings that are whack. Thats's the ONLY thing that makes any sense, yet no one will own up to.
 
Max Q said:
It's not set to 26.5v, never has been. It's set to spec as per the spec sheet... which is something like 30v if I recall correctly.
Click to expand...
Ok great. But 30 volts is too high. Can you check that setting? I'd like something more in the 28 volt range

I realize, I've never asked. But the voltage goes down when you discharge it? Seems obvious, but i thought I'd verify. It does charge up to 26.5, it doesn't live at 26.5 volts?

Max Q said:
I have my SCC off right now as I discharge. Charges another battery of same chemistry right up, no problems. It's all something to do with the janky BMS they're using.
Click to expand...
I have no doubts it's janky, I'm just trying to help figure out the issue.

The only why the BMS could stop the charge at 26.5 would be to disconnect. Is it disconnecting? How long are you leaving it to charge at 26.5? What happens to the current at 26.5? Does it tail off or hold solid and suddenly drop to 0

MrThisIsME said:
Maybe this forum is the US based tech support SS advertises? :)
Click to expand...
I wonder if they pay well...

Max Q said:
It's not tripping.
Click to expand...
If the BMS isn't tripping it is not the problem. The BMS can only do two things allow current or block current. That's it as far as you SCC is concerned.
 
The BMS settings won't change the voltage you read with a DMM.

LFP doesn't really change voltage in the middle of the SoC. It will sit at 26.5-ish for a long time.
 
400bird said:
Ok great. But 30 volts is too high. Can you check that setting? I'd like something more in the 28 volt range

I realize, I've never asked. But the voltage goes down when you discharge it? Seems obvious, but i thought I'd verify. It does charge up to 26.5, it doesn't live at 26.5 volts?
Click to expand...
It basically lives at 26.5v (charging or discharging) has been my point the entire time. Unless I discharge it below ~20%
400bird said:
I have no doubts it's janky, I'm just trying to help figure out the issue.

The only why the BMS could stop the charge at 26.5 would be to disconnect. Is it disconnecting? How long are you leaving it to charge at 26.5? What happens to the current at 26.5? Does it tail off or hold solid and suddenly drop to 0
Click to expand...
Not disconnecting, as far as I can tell. When I have it on the regular battery charger, I'll leave it plugged in for 48-72 hours with no change in voltage. With the SCC, you know, it changes wit cloud cover. Still, sometimes it goes up to 28A max.... Sometimes I see it charge up to 28v, but as soon as I turn the SCC off, no matter what, it settles at 26.5v shortly thereafter.
400bird said:
If the BMS isn't tripping it is not the problem. The BMS can only do two things allow current or block current. That's it as far as you SCC is concerned.
Click to expand...
I don't think the problem is charging. The problem is some sort of goofy regulation setting in the BMS itself. I've been through allllllllll this in my head. I'm quite certain it's a 5 minute fix in some setting on the BMS.
 
Further, I'd just like to call attention to how overcomplicated our lives have become. My entire life has been held up for 2 months for what will, most probably, turn out to be a simple setting change on some software... and NOT some actual physical problem. No, just some digits in some hidden folder.... my entire life is on hold because of a 1 or a 0 in the wrong place.
Can we all take a pause to reflect on this? I mean it's even worse when it happens in your bank account due to some banking error or identity theft. A 1 or 0 in the wrong place can destroy your life, isn't that absurd?
 
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