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MPPT or conventional?

Shunt Czar

New Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2021
Messages
35
I've got regular charge controllers
and MPPT charge controllers. My experience for over 10 years is
that the MPPT isn't worth it, at least not here in the sunny
Arizona desert. My upcoming system upgrades include upgrading
to non-MPPT charge controllers.
 
I would usually say somewhere around 400 to 600 watts or above to go MPPT. What is the system target wattage and voltage?
 
7000 watts 24 volts, and my existing system is 4000 watts 24 volts and the two MPPT controllers I have makes an irrelevant level of improvement compared to its cost. Also running two conventional controllers.
 
Certainly MPPT costs more, especially for a low voltage system.
Lead-acid? Do those do well with PWM?

I think the cost of batteries dominates, now that PV is 1/10th what it used to cost.
Some lithium options appear to cost 1/5 or 1/10th of lead-acid, in terms of cost per kWh of cycle life.
Maybe lithium can be done with PWM, but I'd think regulated voltage of MPPT would be the way to go.

My system is AC coupled (and grid tie) so of course it is MPPT.
 
7000 watts 24 volts, and my existing system is 4000 watts 24 volts and the two MPPT controllers I have makes an irrelevant level of improvement compared to its cost. Also running two conventional controllers.
It really depends on the amount of panels you use, and the arrangement.
AT 4000W, and 24V, you need 166A of cable feeding the charge controller… pwm only operates in parallel mode… so…

You would have to feed the charge controller with 3/0 copper!

With mppt, you could feed it 450V and only need 9 amps… so, #14AWG would feed it fine.
 
The only way i wouldn’t be extremely irritated by all the parallel wiring id have to do to get 7000w of panels hooked to a 24v battery through a bunch of PWM controllers, is if the panels were arranged in a circle about 2 rings deep, and the batteries were in the middle. Considering most 200+w panels have VOC in the 30+ range, you couldn’t series wire a damn thing without making your best-case-scenario ~20-30% derate much, much worse. You’d have to use 10,000w of panels to maybe get 7000w out of it, and you’d have to parallel every..single..one. ?

Or i could just run them all in series through a 12ga pair to my 450v mppt which is 70 feet away, which is what im actually doing.
 
My only complaint with my epever vs3024au PWM is the lack of adjustment to the charging parameters apart from the "sealed/gel/flooded" ones that are preset. Otherwise it's a solid unit, works at full power up to 85c. I'd buy another if i was on a budget.
 
Everyone seems to have an answer for everything. I like being told how I will have to build the system I already have and how virtually impossible it will be.
 
Just out of curiosity, what MPPT are you unimpressed with?
And how is their performance being quantified.

I'm at a very small scale so pem is about $15 and mppt is about $90. I ran 4 years with pwm and 2 with mppt.

But because I'm not running two systems side by side in the same conditions I do find it hard to quantify the difference in harvesting abilities.

I like the MPPT math though.
 
We see from your earlier posts you have experience with power circuitry.


Apparently you don't like MPPT, which is simply SMPS with a peak search function.
The whole world has gone SMPS; it's inside everything from cell phones to large analytical instruments.

We understand there is a range of conditions where PWM will deliver as much, possibly a little more power than MPPT.
That would be where battery voltage is at the flat part of PV power/voltage curve.
So maybe it is optimum for some systems, carefully designed and matched.

If nothing else, MPPT matches array voltage to lower voltage battery, with multiple MPPT inputs can have multiple string lengths, and deals with voltage variations such as partial shading and IR drop at higher current.
When you can design a circuit once and it corrects for varying site conditions, temperature, panel voltage, that is a huge win from a business perspective. Less design and labor cost.

These things are being deployed by the millions.
Worldwide, PV installations are in the terawatt range. I can assure you those are almost exclusively MPPT, not PWM.

 
Everyone seems to have an answer for everything. I like being told how I will have to build the system I already have and how virtually impossible it will be.
Why do you even come on this forum and ask a question, if all you do is get bent out of shape when the generous folks on here try to help you?
 
Everyone seems to have an answer for everything. I like being told how I will have to build the system I already have and how virtually impossible it will be.
Fine to stay with PWM. So why not put the PWM requirement in the OP. No need to play 20 questions with alternatives.

If what is in place works well for the system at 4000w just double it up to get 7000w.

What are your concerns with expanding the existing equipment?
 
Why ask if you are unhappy with getting answers/responses? It is a forum.
 
I don't post very often, but I am on here every day reading new posts and learning. I enjoy the back-and-forth that happens and you do generally learn a lot here. For those that contribute, thank you for taking the time to post.
 
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