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diy solar

States/Cities Attempting To Limit You Self Produced Power...

I got news for you @Tulex . It's whatever party is in control in your state that is limiting solar through regulatory capture. I'm in Texas, it's Republicans here as Democrats have nothing for power. Only reason it's Democrats (liberals) where you are, is because that's the party in power. One of the other guys posting in a thread here is in Arizona, guess who's not in charge of the state government there?

Utilities and other interested parties don't want you to generate your own electricity cheaply on your own, so you don't get to.
The fact that greedy republicans are ignorant to/simply don't care how their greed plays right into the liberals hands doesn't change my opinion one bit. Loss of freedom is the goal. You only have to look at where the control factors will be. Greed and control are two different things. One takes from you at the time, the other forever.
 
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As Home Power Magazine used to say,

Gorilla Solar. Don't ask don't tell... Just press SELL !!

That was in the 1990s
I remember that. I was both stunned and sad to see that they'd closed. I thought...."How could such an important source of information be no more!?!?!" Then I realized I hadn't renewed my subscription for at least 5 years. Oops..
 
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So, locally the city has banned off grid.
May I ask where you are? I get the pleasure of being asked to testify at PSC hearings a few times a year. What I think I've learned is that some of the commissioners are great people who are really interested in helping the ratepayers out but some really seem to be on the IOU's (Investor Owned Utility) payroll along with ALL of the state district reps regardless of political affiliation. It's pretty clear after their terms end what side they were on, some move onto to gigs as consultants with the the utilities' they are regulating while others don't.
 
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So, locally the city has banned off grid.
I alway like to question statements like that because there are some subleties that some people do not understand.
What my experience has informed me about that is that there are building code issues that prevent people from disconnecting from sewer, water, or electricity if those services are provided to the site. Even though you have to have a connection to the electric service provider, there is nothing in those statutes that say you have to use that service. If you are going to self generate, you need to have a building permit for the solar or the generator. I would be very surprised to hear of a city that would not give you a building permit for and solar powered inverter with a battery backup. The only exceptions are cities which also run their own public utilities and in some of those cases they have adopted ordinances that do prevent you or limit you on how much power you can produce.
 
I can't see how the mere act of owning a home can trigger a grid connect mandate. There is not a life-safety issue.
The argument for building codes to require a grid connection is safety. Their titles are often building and safety codes.
I understand that, but I also believe they cannot force you to use that power. I think we have a right to generate our own power as long as we do it safely. What that means to me is that we need to obtain a building permit and comply with the buidling code.
 
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(Sec. 209) Requires the Secretary of HUD, in consultation with the Secretary, to issue regulations to: (1) prohibit any private contract, lease, or other agreement from impairing the ability of a residential property owner or lessee to install, construct, maintain, or use a solar energy system on that property; and (2) require that an application of approval for the installation or use of a solar energy system be treated in the same manner as an application for approval of an architectural modification.

That one looks interesting.
 
yeah lots of regulations - some thinly veiled control for benifit of others, some well intentioned with un-expected consequences.
Funny to see a by-law "requiring" a property to connect to the grid, do they insist on this if your Amish/Mennonite ? Maybe claim religious exemption.
Connect but don't pay? they disconnect? got what you wanted in the end?
We want 'everyone' to pay their 'share' to maintain the grid. If you don't need the grid, why do you still need to pay a share of the cost?
I called up a local pizza place and asked them how much to not deliver a pizza to my house, they said "uh, nothing why?" well because I want to be sure that pizza places are still available to me next month when I may actually want to buy a pizza, so don't I need to pay my share this week to maintain the local pizza availability for myown future benefit?
Yeah we can come up with lots of arguments.
Car companies invested billions to develop and build new efficient gas engines, now this may have been wasted effort as EV's "take over" (yeah I know it will actually take decades but bear with me), so now don't we all need to add a fee to your EV to pay for the lost investments in gas engines? after all we still need auto manufactures. Oh but they do add a fee, they charge enough to remain profitable even if some investments were poor choices and lost them money, they will be sure to make it up somewhere else, or go broke.

Electric companies, like all companies make investments and expect to make a return on that investment, but we (society) do not OWE them a return. If utility companies see the writing on the wall (you can be sure they do) they will move their investments to take advantage of the direction the market is going. If they can get a free-be on the way, like getting a local by-law that requires homes to be connected and get a minimum charge for zero power delivered, they will certainly take that free-be along the way. Does it make that much difference under current conditions, not likely. For many of us, the utility connection is not a bad thing 'forced upon us' but a benefit for low cost back up during poor solar production. {someone called this their utility be-o-tch I believe, ETC.}.
I am curious about Australia, where I understand they have a very high percentage of homes on solar, so what did they do with their utility connections/by-laws and can we learn something from their experience.
 
Also the not that many people go off grid , even now hardly anyone has battery storage

I'd guess less that 1% of the population has a meaningful sized solar & battery set up



It's just the man stamping down hard on those of us who want a little freedom.
 
If they can get a free-be on the way, like getting a local by-law that requires homes to be connected and get a minimum charge for zero power delivered, they will certainly take that free-be along the way.

That is the California way.
Apparently the plan to be imposed shortly is distribution costs allocated over all customers, regardless of kWh usage.
Sliding scale, from $20 for the poor to $85 for the rich, per month. Reduced rate per kWh actually consumed.
(Many articles say it is a flat rate electric bill, but the words I see indicate only the infrastructure fee is flat rate.)
 
I don't mind to pay taxes that are fair, resonable and for the common good.
I don't like being forced to pay for things I don't need, for a monopolistic corporation's good.
I still have a utility connection for the house, but not for my business next door. They don't have any regulations that force me to have a service for the business, or for the house where I live. I choose to have the utility connection to provide back-up to the otherwise solar driven pair of properties, and come November/December I am glad to have it I can tell you.
Ontario has recently offered an 'Ultra low' Rate as part of a package, where you can opt for this new 2.4 cent/kWh rate, 11:00 Pm to 7:00 Am targetted for EV owners (Yeah!) but the catch is, the On-peak rate that comes with this new Ultra low rate will be 24 cents/kWh (yes, x10 the overnight rate) from 4:00Pm to 9:00Pm (five hours per day). It is very tempting since the battery bank would allow time shifting as long as I can boost my system to run the business 4-5pm while my spouse will be using the stove/oven/wellpump/laundry next door. {I will admit I have thought about re-connection of the business utility service, and put the house on the new ultra low rate but leave the business on the current TOU system with higher overnight-but-lower-daytime peak rates, then pick and chose which one is most beneficial! - Yeah, the cost of reconnection and distribution rates x2 will cancel the perceived benefits.}
 
I am curious about Australia, where I understand they have a very high percentage of homes on solar, so what did they do with their utility connections/by-laws and can we learn something from their experience.
One in three homes has a solar PV system, and still growing strongly. The vast majority (it must be 99+%) are grid-tied. Only a very small proportion of those have a battery storage system. That's because grid-tied solar PV is cheap (way cheaper than in the USA) and is a financial no brainer for any homeowner with a suitable rooftop, while home battery financials suck dogs' balls.

Off-grid is uncommon, usually confined to remote areas where the grid is not available, or those few who have just decided to cut the cord (very few do).

Governments here have encouraged home solar PV. Both sides of the political spectrum, it's just not a partisan issue. Indeed it was our most conservative Prime Minister who was in power in the early 2000's when the federal Small-scale Technology Certificate program was introduced to help encourage the uptake of solar PV. It ends in 2030, and has a gradual wind down each year. State Govts of all persuasions have each had their own incentive schemes.

As to the physical installation of solar PV, there are approval processes and there are standards for installation. The installation standards are uniform across the nation (but mean DIY is very hard to do, even for off-grid) and managed by a standards body.

The local power distribution companies (there are about a dozen or so across the country) regulate the approval processes for their region for grid-tied solar PV. Usually this means limits on the inverter capacity which may be installed per phase (for residential that's typically 10 kW) and a maximum export power limit is also set (typically 5 kW/phase), so export limiting is pretty common. These limits do vary by region (e.g. in rural/remote areas they tend to be lower).

We are starting to move to dynamic export limitation in some jurisdictions, e.g. in South Australia all new installations will have this capability. So they have lifted the export power limit to 10 kW/phase, but on the few occasions a year it needs to be curtailed because there is inadequate system demand, then the utility can throttle back how much inverters can export. It's smart and will enable even more solar PV capacity into the grid, perfect for the less than stellar solar production days.

Off-grid is not prohibited, it's just not particularly viable (financially) if you already have a grid connection. The power distribution companies couldn't care less about people being off-grid, just so long as it is properly isolated from the grid. Once it is grid-tied then you play by their approval rules.

Then there are some like me who have both grid and off-grid systems. I built mine mainly for outage backup but it's morphed into being the system through which our home is powered, although a few higher power appliances are only serviced by the grid/grid-tied PV system.
 
Then there are some like me who have both grid and off-grid systems. I built mine mainly for outage backup but it's morphed into being the system through which our home is powered, although a few higher power appliances are only serviced by the grid/grid-tied PV system.
And...your happy with the system/ not happy and why?
Typical utility rates are super low/ middle of the road/ super high? ( to me low is under 10 cents, mid is 15-ish high is over 20 cents but this is just my perspective)
Going forward, you see the grid getting a significant portion of its' energy from all the users themselves, feeding into the grid, so what does happen on a poor solar day, when all those home PV system suck, does a huge Nat Gas generating plant get kicked 'on' how does this system deal with variations in production efficiently?
 
This is one of the key topics to prepre for in the coming years, they will start treating us all like charter schools vs public schools and attempt to infringe the rights of off-gridders to prop up a broken government sponsored monopoly.

One of the things that honestly make me passionate about earlier adoption and organization of this community as an interest group before rights are taken away without the proper fight.
 
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And...your happy with the system/ not happy and why?
Yes:

1. It has covered us well during many grid outages. Being in a rural area our transmission infrastructure is more vulnerable to power line damage, usually weather/tree related. We get about a dozen longer outages per year. Two weekends ago we had 12 hours of outage. I used to use a generator for backup but I wanted something automated for when I was not here so the wife did not have to be concerned with it, and my then elderly mother (who lived in a second home on our property but has since passed away) had energy security.

2. It was a COVID lockdown project, something new to learn and fun to do while we had extra time at home. It's morphed into a useful hobby. I've gone down the home automation rabbit hole as well with Home Assistant, so there's always something new to work on.

3. Because it was largely DIY but I had a licensed electrician do the AC distribution side then I am much more in alignment with regulation standards while taking advantage of much lower cost LiFePO4 batteries (plus I have a bank of sealed lead acid as well on standby for long outages), it meant my battery set up is actually financially viable, just. Since it provides other benefits, I call that a win. Commercial battery systems (e.g. Tesla Powerwall) are insanely expensive and make no financial sense here.

4. It is meeting my goals to reduce my grid imports to an average of 10 kWh/day or less, significantly reduce my electrical power bills, and enable me to embark on other strategies to reduce our use of carbon intensive grid power (our local grid, while getting greener, is still dominated by coal power).

Progress to date:
Screen Shot 2023-05-07 at 9.15.18 am.png

Screen Shot 2023-05-07 at 9.17.54 am.png
 
Great reply,
You sure did a good job on lowering your bills, thanks for sharing.
The last bit, what does the grid do, when there is a poor solar day, you noted coal fired plants, but to my understanding these can't just 'switch on' on a moments' notice. Meanwhile, no matter how sunny it is during the day, night time loads exist, and since few umes have batteries, what does the grid do during nights?

Looks like power is rather expensive too, I mean per kWh. nice job getting that billing down, looks like in 2017 the price went up, and started you on a mission!
 
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