Scam from hell.

Tulex · Feb 6, 2024

Quattrohead said:
That is a bit harsh, even I have been scammed and I'm the tightest butthole on this forum I can guarantee it LOL

Maybe. We've all been scammed, and it really always falls on us.

When I started my venture into solar, the first thing I did was research. And the first thing I learned was how much I didn't know. But, through the years, I've come to understand that about myself. Even now I may have done some things differently. But again, that's on me.

Bop · Feb 6, 2024

Ouch- the entire US solar industry sounds like a scam lol
Back in 2016, I paid $4000 Au for a 6kw system, fully installed, that basically zero'd our electric bill...
These days we get a 6.6kw system with a 5kw gridtie inverter- fully installed it costs about $3500Au, with the federal and state rebates worth about $2700, making the cost to the buyer $3500Au ($2200US), and the total cost about $6200Au in total ($4050US)- fully installed, witth no extra fees...
That would zero many peoples bills, generating about 30-35kwh a day

Tulex · Feb 6, 2024

dmoon said:
i know 99 % on this forum are well informed. i hope the Youtube algo push will's video about scammers out to people with less know-how.

Will asked about youtube ideas, and I had suggested that a video of what you will need for what you are trying to do would be a good idea. Would give people an idea of what to expect. Maybe 3 or so scenarios of size, required equipment examples, and what to expect out of it. I think that would help a lot of people getting into this.

dmoon · Feb 6, 2024

Hedges said:
$0.18/kWh is relatively low, and $0.06/kWh is higher than many utilities are paying for power.

Were you also forced onto a time of use rate?

What does your purchase price of turn-key system work out to $ per kWh? (to keep it simple, just amortize over 20 years.)

How about your additional hardware $ per kWh?

Batteries I think are as low as $0.05/kWh, but for suitable inverter cost varies.
With $0.12 spread between buy/sell, any savings from saving power in batteries (and losing 20% along the way) will be quite modest.
Likely other types of investments give better return.

That could be about $18k?

I would prefer managing loads to match production, over storage.
(I say this having scrambled to unplug refrigerators and shut off yard lights last Sunday, realizing that with overcast my 14kWh usable battery would shut off power in the middle of the night.)

The battery cost 6k picked them up locally from Atlanta but shipped from China. they are EVE cells. i was going to build them without a case but i have 4-year-old who's very inquisitive so i spent 2.5k buying a seplo battery case and BMS+active balancer.

i wasn't forced into time of use. I recently changed to Time of use. and it pays about 8 cents kwh and 15cents... my new system is not on as you can see from my past bill adding a second PV system brings me up to my consumption needs. also that 382 is energy exported my total production for last month was about 537kwh

dmoon · Feb 6, 2024

Bop said:
Ouch- the entire US solar industry sounds like a scam lol
Back in 2016, I paid $4000 Au for a 6kw system, fully installed, that basically zero'd our electric bill...
These days we get a 6.6kw system with a 5kw gridtie inverter- fully installed it costs about $3500Au, with the federal and state rebates worth about $2700, making the cost to the buyer $3500Au ($2200US), and the total cost about $6200Au in total ($4050US)- fully installed, witth no extra fees...
That would zero many peoples bills, generating about 30-35kwh a day

yh greedy bastards over here. with my fix i think i would be about to pay back in 4 years. and start seeing profit/free energy after that

Hedges · Feb 6, 2024

dmoon said:
The battery cost 6k picked them up locally from Atlanta but shipped from China. they are EVE cells.

dmoon said:
Thanks man... i have watched all Wills Videos. i ordered 4 15kw LFP Batteries.

Is that 4x 15kWh batteries? 4 x 16 = 48, 300 Ah cells?
$6k/48 = $125 per cell.

OK, probably around what cells do sell for. DIY still cheaper than finished product for this market.

Compare to PowerPro, around $4k for 16, 280 Ah cells.
Or $5k I paid for 20 kWh AGM couple years ago.
Or $1500 I just paid for 9.8kW explody LG RESU-10H

If you get 3000 ~ 6000 cycles, the cells cost you $0.033 or $0.017 per kWh.

dmoon · Feb 6, 2024

Tulex said:
Will asked about youtube ideas, and I had suggested that a video of what you will need for what you are trying to do would be a good idea. Would give people an idea of what to expect. Maybe 3 or so scenarios of size, required equipment examples, and what to expect out of it. I think that would help a lot of people getting into this.

Good. send me the thread... i think from an HVAC professional standpoint.

1. know your usage. spend like 1 year( yes 1 year) auditing your home usage. actively and passively minimize and let appliances run. know your peak usage and minimum usage. EG. some people might not need the EG4 18pv inverter but will get it because its the best or was recommended.

2. implement energy improvement based on detected inefficiencies in how you operate your house. from improving your door seals to time of usage could go a long way.

3. get efficient appliance. LED light bulbs(obviously) should be step one in improving your home efficiency and go as high as changing your water heater to a Heat pump water heater.

dmoon · Feb 6, 2024

Hedges said:
Is that 4x 15kWh batteries? 4 x 16 = 48, 300 Ah cells?
$6k/48 = $125 per cell.

OK, probably around what cells do sell for. DIY still cheaper than finished product for this market.

Compare to PowerPro, around $4k for 16, 280 Ah cells.
Or $5k I paid for 20 kWh AGM couple years ago.
Or $1500 I just paid for 9.8kW explody LG RESU-10H

If you get 3000 ~ 6000 cycles, the cells cost you $0.033 or $0.017 per kWh.

its 64 304 AH cells

dmoon · Feb 6, 2024

Hedges said:
Is that 4x 15kWh batteries? 4 x 16 = 48, 300 Ah cells?
$6k/48 = $125 per cell.

OK, probably around what cells do sell for. DIY still cheaper than finished product for this market.

Compare to PowerPro, around $4k for 16, 280 Ah cells.
Or $5k I paid for 20 kWh AGM couple years ago.
Or $1500 I just paid for 9.8kW explody LG RESU-10H

If you get 3000 ~ 6000 cycles, the cells cost you $0.033 or $0.017 per kWh.

i plan to group them into 4X15kwh batteries= 60kwh

Hedges · Feb 6, 2024

dmoon said:
3. get efficient appliance. LED light bulbs(obviously) should be step one in improving your home efficiency and go as high as changing your water heater to a Heat pump water heater.

LED lamps are quite efficient, more light from a given amount of power.

They also double the losses in inverter/battery system.

Other appliances pitched as saving energy, such as instant water heaters and front-load washers, cost much more and require maintenance and/or repairs.

Economy/simplicity has an efficiency all its own.

Hedges · Feb 6, 2024

dmoon said:
i plan to group them into 4X15kwh batteries= 60kwh

That can be 4p16s (single BMS), or 16s4p (four BMS).

Open loop or closed loop communications with inverter?
Heated, or not?
In the dwelling, or located where it can do no harm no matter what happens?

Plan and design your system for the continuous and surge currents you need.
Implement a precharge circuit.

Some people love their systems with lithium batteries, and some have had issues.
I'm just now trying lithium, packaged HV batteries from LG. I'm limited to what SMA inverter will do and tell me.

dmoon · Feb 6, 2024

Hedges said:
LED lamps are quite efficient, more light from a given amount of power.

They also double the losses in inverter/battery system.

Other appliances pitched as saving energy, such as instant water heaters and front-load washers, cost much more and require maintenance and/or repairs.

Economy/simplicity has an efficiency all its own.

Learned something new

Hedges · Feb 6, 2024

This guy got low 80% rather than low 90% round-trip.

I think it is due to poor PF of his LED lamps. If they draw 2x the current for half the time, same power consumption but 2x the loss in wire, transistors, inductors.
Some larger equipment is available PF corrected, e.g. European inverter-drive AC and newer PCs.

My System Efficiency is 81.3%. Prove me wrong or show me your math.

I just did a post about how my solar system performed over the last 159 days and I calculated my system efficiency which came out to a fairly abysmal 81.3%. So how did I calculate the efficiency? I measured my actual load using Emporia Vue inside my main panel. I have compared its readings to...

diysolarforum.com

When CFL were marketed to the consumer, I think power consumption of lamp not ballast was quoted.

dmoon · Feb 6, 2024

Hedges said:
That can be 4p16s (single BMS), or 16s4p (four BMS).

Open loop or closed loop communications with inverter?
Heated, or not?
In the dwelling, or located where it can do no harm no matter what happens?

Plan and design your system for the continuous and surge currents you need.
Implement a precharge circuit.

Some people love their systems with lithium batteries, and some have had issues.
I'm just now trying lithium, packaged HV batteries from LG. I'm limited to what SMA inverter will do and tell me.

i plan to do 16s4p(Four BMS)

open loop communication with inverter.
not heated. i don't leave in cold climates (if thats what you mean.)
located in the garage. (plan to build an electrical room in the future)
i plan to use/build a smart relay that continuously prevents surges. example( my two heave weights are water heater and stove) i don't take showers and cook at the same time. but when i cook i would run the hot water for a short period. that could spike the load to 10kw of the rated inverter. With a smart relay, i would limit the water heat from turning on during cooking time. my heat pump only draws 500 watt but draws 5000watt when the strip heat turns on( which rarely happens).
i think LFP is ok depending on how you use them

dmoon · Feb 6, 2024

Hedges said:
This guy got low 80% rather than low 90% round-trip.

I think it is due to poor PF of his LED lamps. If they draw 2x the current for half the time, same power consumption but 2x the loss in wire, transistors, inductors.
Some larger equipment is available PF corrected, e.g. European inverter-drive AC and newer PCs.

My System Efficiency is 81.3%. Prove me wrong or show me your math.

I just did a post about how my solar system performed over the last 159 days and I calculated my system efficiency which came out to a fairly abysmal 81.3%. So how did I calculate the efficiency? I measured my actual load using Emporia Vue inside my main panel. I have compared its readings to...

diysolarforum.com

When CFL were marketed to the consumer, I think power consumption of lamp not ballast was quoted.

i will check mine.

Hedges · Feb 6, 2024

Right, managing loads to fit system capability is the way to go. Disable water heater when stove on, or enable water heater when battery full. Heater strip, maybe mount a switch to disable so you only use it when you really mean to. Spring wound timer? I use those so air compressor doesn't come back on middle of the night.

You're using a big battery. My AGM is hardly enough to get through the night; I need to shut off loads when grid down, let them coast until sun comes up. My reason for lithium will be to keep AGM floating for long calendar life (an experiment in what I can make the equipment do.)

There have been some incidents of LiFePO4 fires, much more rare than with other chemistries.
I plan to hang my explody batteries outside.
You could at least box yours in with sheetrock or better materials, with vent to outside. Since the outgassing is flammable, good to not let that build up.

Precharge - people have had BMS shut down, contactors weld, fuses blow. Simple enough to do manual precharge.

chilly2 · Feb 6, 2024

dmoon said:
Determined to optimize, I addressed inefficiencies. My 2019-built house had poor insulation, contributing to high energy usage (50 kWh/day winter, 60 kWh/day summer). By sealing leaks, installing motorized back draft dampers, and improving insulation, I reduced usage to 20~30 kWh/day, eliminating reliance on inefficient electric strip heating that drew about 5000 watts. (TIP. Don't turn the Thermostat of your heat pump by more than 2 degrees setpoint, if you do that you will unnecessarily turn on the strip heat. set your heat pump at 65 ° F when away in the summer and 80 ° F in summer)

In all this came one good thing. The work you did above made a huge difference and is something everyone should strive for. Otherwise it's like bailing out a boat with a hole in it.

I hope you manage to resolve your situation.

dmoon · Feb 6, 2024

chilly2 said:
In all this came one good thing. The work you did above made a huge difference and is something everyone should strive for. Otherwise it's like bailing out a boat with a hole in it.

I hope you manage to resolve your situation.

yes, conserving energy and having an efficient home should be a top priority before thinking about going solar.

740GLE · Feb 6, 2024

Hedges said:
This guy got low 80% rather than low 90% round-trip.

I think it is due to poor PF of his LED lamps. If they draw 2x the current for half the time, same power consumption but 2x the loss in wire, transistors, inductors.
Some larger equipment is available PF corrected, e.g. European inverter-drive AC and newer PCs.

My System Efficiency is 81.3%. Prove me wrong or show me your math.

I just did a post about how my solar system performed over the last 159 days and I calculated my system efficiency which came out to a fairly abysmal 81.3%. So how did I calculate the efficiency? I measured my actual load using Emporia Vue inside my main panel. I have compared its readings to...

diysolarforum.com

When CFL were marketed to the consumer, I think power consumption of lamp not ballast was quoted.

The are labeled in W, not VA.

The common utility meter only cares about w, not VA. You get that reactive power for free (unless your a commercial account and causing VAR concerned on the grid)

But your off grid system is the utility, you need to take into account VA of each device, theres no free lunch.

sunshine_eggo · Feb 6, 2024

The most shocking thing to me about this thread is a house built in 2019 is so poorly insulated... I'd like to hear more details on that.

Scam from hell.

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