Adding Schneider XW Pro

[realpinochet]

No grid here.

Inverter output is rarely close to equal as the master inverter will supply most of the current and slave inverter output is added to the supply for larger loads. The inverters do not try to split the load equally although it can get close under large loads.

Current doesn't need to be balanced anyway as long as the conductors are sized correctly for full system potential. Voltage is the critical factor. Voltage of each inverter is measured at the combination point and individually adjusted as part of the commissioning process. There is adjustment for this in the Conext configuration tool but not in the regular menu of the Insight Gateway. Although the Gateway gives you the ability to choose master/slave inverter settings you really need the configuration tool to do it properly.

The conductors and the XW internal transfer relay of one inverter will handle the full potential current of the 12kW genset so no issue there. If the system had a total supply potential greater then 60 amps an external transfer switch would be required due to the current limitation of the XW's internal xfer relay.

You are correct about keeping conductor lengths equal when using parallel conductors to split the current between multiple conductors. But that has to do with the fact the an individual conductor is not capable of carrying the full current without overheating. The NEC allows this for conductors over 1/0 size. I certainly don't miss having to wrestle 8 pieces of 500 mcm at a time.

I'm new to this solar stuff..just been here a few days. I've stated this before..I'm shocked that companies sell you a product then nickle and dim you for stuff to make it work. Schneider seems to be one of the worst. I see your post about this configuration tool I've heard others talking about and decided to look it up. $600 dollars for a flipping usb stick? And, worst it's something a customer would really need to configure the product you just bought from them. I can't believe they get away with this crap. Can't they make that expensive gateway they sell to ..once again manage and configure the product do the same thing as this tool? They should either add this software to the gateway or give you this usb tool that's super cheap for them to make. I'm shocked this sort of stuff doesn't generate a class action against these companies.

 

[GXMnow]

I, as a Schneider customer, certainly don't agree with all the things they do to put up road blocks to the DIY crowd, but I do understand why they do some of it.

Companies like Schneider support their installers. An installer only needs to buy one configuration tool. The $600 is not for the USB stick, it is for the license to use the software to do the configuration. If a DIY person buys the stick for their one install, they are not the target customer for it. They want installers to do this type of setup as it would be just too easy to put in bad values. An error in configuration at that level could do more than just stop it from working, it could actually damage the equipment. While many of us DIY people do take the time to study what we are doing, to make sure we do it right, that might not be the case of every person who buys an inverter. They basically locked out controls that could be dangerous. If it just needed a password, then someone would just post the password, and anyone could poke around and ruin their equipment if they didn't understand what they were doing. So yes, $600 for the USB device and some software seems crazy, but it really is not that bad. For an installer who puts in several systems a year, it won't even register as an expense.

The other complaint about Schneider is the "nickel and dime" of having to buy each separate part. Again, this is a bigger picture choice on their part. If you are building a really small system, like mine with just one XW-Pro and nothing else... Having to buy the Gateway was a fairly big cost add. But if this was a large system to power a factory, with 6 XW-Pro's making 3 phase to run machines, and it also had five 600 volt charge controllers and a shipping container full of batteries.... This setup still only needs ONE Gateway to monitor and configure it. IF that capability was built into every device, you would now have the equivalent of 11 Gateways on your network. As the system gets bigger, it makes more sense.

Having the battery monitor as a separate device also does make sense. I may still get one, but for now, I am happy with voltage control. If (when) I change to LFP cells, I will probably go with either a BMS the XW can talk to, or a Xanbus battery monitor.

When I looked at other systems, there were certainly pros and cons. The OutBack SkyBox looked like a great idea. It rolled all the things a normal DIY user needs into a single box. Had it been available 6 months sooner, and had some better early reviews, I probably would have gone that way. It has a charge controller, that I would still not be using, but other than that, it is less powerful, and cost a lot more than I got the Schneider for, even with the extra cost of the gateway and the conduit box. For a single inverter, it is easy to set up with the Gateway, and no config tool is needed. Needing the gateway is no different than an Enphase system needing an Envoy.

My only HUGE complaint about Schneider is they just don't want to add functions in their built in software. They feel it does what it needs to do. I called them out on their sideways lies on their website about supporting energy time shifting AND AC coupling. Their fix was a change to the wording on the website. It is still a little misleading, but now has a little fine print to tell you some features only work in some configurations.

The all in one hybrid inverters are getting better. I don't think they are up to the quality of the Schneider gear, and none of them can take overloads like an XW can. Has anyone been able to make one of them use only excess solar for battery charging, and then zero the grid all day? I would love to see production and utility usage graphs on someone doing time of use energy shifting on an all in one. I don't think a Sol-Ark can do what I am making my Schneider do now. The time shifting ability in the new OutBack Mojave looks very limited and kind of crude. To make mine work the way I wanted it to, I had to add a PLC and write my own code, but the Schneider let's me do it. Can a Growatt do it?

 

[realpinochet]

I, as a Schneider customer, certainly don't agree with all the things they do to put up road blocks to the DIY crowd, but I do understand why they do some of it.

Companies like Schneider support their installers. An installer only needs to buy one configuration tool. The $600 is not for the USB stick, it is for the license to use the software to do the configuration. If a DIY person buys the stick for their one install, they are not the target customer for it. They want installers to do this type of setup as it would be just too easy to put in bad values. An error in configuration at that level could do more than just stop it from working, it could actually damage the equipment. While many of us DIY people do take the time to study what we are doing, to make sure we do it right, that might not be the case of every person who buys an inverter. They basically locked out controls that could be dangerous. If it just needed a password, then someone would just post the password, and anyone could poke around and ruin their equipment if they didn't understand what they were doing. So yes, $600 for the USB device and some software seems crazy, but it really is not that bad. For an installer who puts in several systems a year, it won't even register as an expense.

The other complaint about Schneider is the "nickel and dime" of having to buy each separate part. Again, this is a bigger picture choice on their part. If you are building a really small system, like mine with just one XW-Pro and nothing else... Having to buy the Gateway was a fairly big cost add. But if this was a large system to power a factory, with 6 XW-Pro's making 3 phase to run machines, and it also had five 600 volt charge controllers and a shipping container full of batteries.... This setup still only needs ONE Gateway to monitor and configure it. IF that capability was built into every device, you would now have the equivalent of 11 Gateways on your network. As the system gets bigger, it makes more sense.

Having the battery monitor as a separate device also does make sense. I may still get one, but for now, I am happy with voltage control. If (when) I change to LFP cells, I will probably go with either a BMS the XW can talk to, or a Xanbus battery monitor.

When I looked at other systems, there were certainly pros and cons. The OutBack SkyBox looked like a great idea. It rolled all the things a normal DIY user needs into a single box. Had it been available 6 months sooner, and had some better early reviews, I probably would have gone that way. It has a charge controller, that I would still not be using, but other than that, it is less powerful, and cost a lot more than I got the Schneider for, even with the extra cost of the gateway and the conduit box. For a single inverter, it is easy to set up with the Gateway, and no config tool is needed. Needing the gateway is no different than an Enphase system needing an Envoy.

My only HUGE complaint about Schneider is they just don't want to add functions in their built in software. They feel it does what it needs to do. I called them out on their sideways lies on their website about supporting energy time shifting AND AC coupling. Their fix was a change to the wording on the website. It is still a little misleading, but now has a little fine print to tell you some features only work in some configurations.

The all in one hybrid inverters are getting better. I don't think they are up to the quality of the Schneider gear, and none of them can take overloads like an XW can. Has anyone been able to make one of them use only excess solar for battery charging, and then zero the grid all day? I would love to see production and utility usage graphs on someone doing time of use energy shifting on an all in one. I don't think a Sol-Ark can do what I am making my Schneider do now. The time shifting ability in the new OutBack Mojave looks very limited and kind of crude. To make mine work the way I wanted it to, I had to add a PLC and write my own code, but the Schneider let's me do it. Can a Growatt do it?

Thanks for the in depth feedback! I see your view points and while I agree I also have opposing views. First, if you buy the product and install it yourself you are the installer and should have the support and tools you need on day one as part of the system not add-ons. Your point about people not knowing what values to enter and causing issues of which some might be catastrophic is a 100% valid argument. I've worked three decades in IT..mostly linux support / network etc. I know what you're saying unfortunately. But, at the same time I also know that a good dev team working with the engineering team can create a configuration wizard on the gateway that would help to drastically reduce this concern. There could be a basic config option which ask you sets of questions and maybe uses it's sensors etc and simply click next, next submit. There could also be a advanced section to the wizard that you click a box to enable and agree to the terms etc where they can put a disclaimer. But, even in this section they can let the wizard ask sets of questions and help you config it safely and should a manual entry be need the software can check to see if your manual entry is going to be damaging and grey it out if that's the case. This should be the case for all of these setups just not Schneider. Make your products more diy compatible. Some of this is blatant and on purpose so you have to use one of their certified installers for yet another revenue stream. I've been looking at the 6848 and the outback radian 8k inverter which is just slightly more expensive than a 6848. Not sure how their features stack up against what you stated above.

This is the one I was looking at, wonder how well it would stack up against the conext system? I'm trying to find more on it and how they stack them and what their features are. One thing I did notice while the power is higher the surge time is shorter than the 6848.

Outback Radian GS8048A-01 8,000 Watt Advanced Inverter/Charger

Note: This item is delayed indefinitely, please contact us for alternative options. NOTE: The OutBack Power Radian inverter is not designed for use in mobile applications and will void the manufacturer’s warranty. If you need a large mobile system, it can be custom built as a power panel that...

www.solar-electric.com

 

[ChrisG]

Thanks for the in depth feedback! I see your view points and while I agree I also have opposing views. First, if you buy the product and install it yourself you are the installer and should have the support and tools you need on day one as part of the system not add-ons. Your point about people not knowing what values to enter and causing issues of which some might be catastrophic is a 100% valid argument. I've worked three decades in IT..mostly linux support / network etc. I know what you're saying unfortunately. But, at the same time I also know that a good dev team working with the engineering team can create a configuration wizard on the gateway that would help to drastically reduce this concern. There could be a basic config option which ask you sets of questions and maybe uses it's sensors etc and simply click next, next submit. There could also be a advanced section to the wizard that you click a box to enable and agree to the terms etc where they can put a disclaimer. But, even in this section they can let the wizard ask sets of questions and help you config it safely and should a manual entry be need the software can check to see if your manual entry is going to be damaging and grey it out if that's the case. This should be the case for all of these setups just not Schneider. Make your products more diy compatible. Some of this is blatant and on purpose so you have to use one of their certified installers for yet another revenue stream. I've been looking at the 6848 and the outback radian 8k inverter which is just slightly more expensive than a 6848. Not sure how their features stack up against what you stated above.

This is the one I was looking at, wonder how well it would stack up against the conext system? I'm trying to find more on it and how they stack them and what their features are. One thing I did notice while the power is higher the surge time is shorter than the 6848.

Outback Radian GS8048A-01 8,000 Watt Advanced Inverter/Charger

Note: This item is delayed indefinitely, please contact us for alternative options. NOTE: The OutBack Power Radian inverter is not designed for use in mobile applications and will void the manufacturer’s warranty. If you need a large mobile system, it can be custom built as a power panel that...

www.solar-electric.com

For my cabin, I’ve been bouncing around the idea of XW Pro or Radian 8048 for months. I need the LF inverter for my well pump 37a surge @240v and I want this inverter to always be working to cover critical loads such as lights and refrigeration. I have settled on the Radian for two reasons: 1) A Few less pieces to buy with Outback and 2) Support including their dedicated forum with a lot of history. These inverters can surge up to 16kva for 10 seconds. Both XW and Raidian need additional components to have a full system like the PDP by Schneider.

 

[GXMnow]

I did look into a Radian as well. It is a quality unit. It does also require you to buy a few other items. You need a MATE3 and a HUB to connect and monitor the system. Not too different from the Gateway or Insight Home on Schneider. And they have their own set of interconnection panels. The only big difference is it seems the Outback support people are a bit more DIY friendly. The cost for a similar capability is pretty close. The deal at the time and the shipping can flip it either way.

 

[realpinochet]

For my cabin, I’ve been bouncing around the idea of XW Pro or Radian 8048 for months. I need the LF inverter for my well pump 37a surge @240v and I want this inverter to always be working to cover critical loads such as lights and refrigeration. I have settled on the Radian for two reasons: 1) A Few less pieces to buy with Outback and 2) Support including their dedicated forum with a lot of history. These inverters can surge up to 16kva for 10 seconds. Both XW and Raidian need additional components to have a full system like the PDP by Schneider.

I think the 6848 surges for about a minute. Does the 10sec surge time concern you with the radian? I need to start a well pump and ac etc?

 

[ChrisG]

I think the 6848 surges for about a minute. Does the 10sec surge time concern you with the radian? I need to start a well pump and ac etc?

You need to know your surge for those devices. I used a clamp meter with inrush several times which measured the 37a (9000w) and then settles down to 1400w after 1 second for the 3/4hp well pump.

 

[realpinochet]

You need to know your surge for those devices. I used a clamp meter with inrush several times which measured the 37a (9000w) and then settles down to 1400w after 1 second for the 3/4hp well pump.

Thanks for the info.

 

[realpinochet]

I've been researching the radian more right now which has lead me to two questions. One video said you can swap out failed parts in the field via a modular design...as in just pull the part out and pop the new one in so yo don't have to take the whole unit off the wall. Maybe this is the flex version only? I looked at the flex version it looks just like a regular radian that's all pre wired? Second question is that this video says you have to have a battery connected or it will not work. That kinda sucks cause I'm trying to prepare for a grid down and perhaps something happens to the battery bank. I'd still like to run from pv during the day. This doesn't look possible with the radian. Are we sure the 6848 can do this...like literally no battery at all? I know some of the cheap mpp units will do this..I think they call it "hybrid" with means different things to different people. It's starting to look like the 8048 and 6848 are solid choices.

 

[400bird]

Second question is that this video says you have to have a battery connected or it will not work. That kinda sucks cause I'm trying to prepare for a grid down and perhaps something happens to the battery bank. I'd still like to run from pv during the day. This doesn't look possible with the radian. Are we sure the 6848 can do this...like literally no battery at all? .

Neither can provide AC power without a battery!
They are battery inverters. Without a battery, where would the energy come from?

Sure you might get by with a charge controller just putting raw DC onto the bus for the battery inverter, but without a battery, that is a recipe for disaster.

Plan redundant (parallel) batteries if you think your single battery is going to fail.

 

[Hedges]

. "The 3 second 2x surge should accommodate timing differences..."
The relay doesn't have any surge capacity only its make or break rating of the contacts.

In order to prevent current through relay from exceeding 56A, the inverter can deliver power from battery. The grid current limit is adjustable in Sunny Island, for instance in case it is fed by a 20A breaker, but 56A is the max.
Inverter can deliver 5.75kW continuously, and 11kW surge for 3 seconds.

If a load of 18.7kW was suddenly applied, 56A would be allowed through the relay and 92A could be delivered as 120VAC, drawing from battery. That could be sustained for 3 seconds, plenty of time for the parallel inverters to pick up their share.

I doubt there would be many 120V installations with that many in parallel. 2s2p for split phase is more likely.
In Europe where it originated, same 56A limit but at 220V, which made the system a better balance. There, 4p would be done for a large system, or 3Y.

 

[realpinochet]

Neither can provide AC power without a battery!
They are battery inverters. Without a battery, where would the energy come from?

Sure you might get buy with a charge controller just putting raw DC onto the bus for the battery inverter, but without a battery, that is a recipe for disaster.

Plan redundant (parallel) batteries if you think your single battery is going to fail.

I see folks with mpp and maybe growatts using straight pv with no batteries or grid powering deep freezers and such. I'm not saying I'd expect to run a whole house like this but critical loads would be nice during the day. Deep freezers running all day would stay good all night with no power. This would be enough to charge my ham raidos and cell phones etc as well. Lets face it ..the world is on fire and I'm trying to prep as best as I can. While I plan on having a good battery bank , not a single battery, banks can fail. I think they call this prepping. lol I plan on having a cheap mpp or growatt anyways in storage for just in case.

 

[Mjs]

I think the 6848 surges for about a minute. Does the 10sec surge time concern you with the radian? I need to start a well pump and ac etc?

The XW6848+ is rated for 8500 watt surge for 30 minutes and 12kW surge for 60 seconds. High surge capacity (power and time) is important if you have bigger motors to start. Not as important if the loads are smaller or non-motorized. Soft starters or inverter driven motors also help to reduce required surge capacity. But you probably don't want to retrofit those to a well pump unless it was designed for it due to the difficulty of replacing the pump if something was to damage it.

 

[GXMnow]

Can you link a video of someone running a load on a Growatt, off grid, without a battery? With enough solar and a bunch of capacitors, it might work, but it won't be stable. Enphase says their iQ8 inverters can do it, but it also has "load controllers" to disconnect things that it can't run.

My solution is having 3 completely independent batteries. Any one of them can run my system pretty well. If I lose a BMS or a cell, I will only lose one of the banks. They are on separate fuses, cutoff switches, and BMS's.

 

[Hedges]

Can't find it anymore, but one posting had link to video of contractors who installed 2x Sunny Boy 6kW. Grid not connected yet, they enabled Secure Power PV direct to 120VAC on one, and ran a large angle grinder, which started instantly. That wasn't a small Makita, more like my 12 amp Milwaukee.

Of course it is limited to PV + capacitors. The capacitors are normally smoothing out current draw to make 240Vrms 6kW, so contain considerable energy when drawn down lower for only 120Vrms. That should help with starting surge, but if clouds dropped production below what a refrigerator needed (typically 100W to 300W for motor), I don't know if it switches off and back on or stays off until re-enabled. Must be re-enabled each day, they say, so not automatic.

Here I measured 3 Vrms ripple on 400 VDC, for GT PV inverter delivering 4kW

High Frequency Inverter battery current waveform

In the interest of science ;) I have captured waveforms drawn by a high frequency inverter from the battery. This could give some insight to how a BMS might react. About 25 years ago I found myself with idle hands and some money ($800?) burning a hole in my pocket. I wandered into Quement...

diysolarforum.com

I think a small battery bank, just 4x automotive starting batteries, would do a lot to smooth out available power and supply surges. Would want the inverter to keep them > 90% SoC for long life, shut down below that.

Yes, load control would be the way to go. My system like many can signal based on SoC. Running PV direct you might want it to monitor production and see if output was stable for a while before adding loads, avoid rapid switching if variations due to clouds.

But given cost and durability of batteries, PV direct would be attractive. Sometimes that is for DC loads. It is done for water pumping, either DC (or universal) motors that vary speed with voltage, or VFD to AC motors (basically brushless DC) with MPPT like Grundfos.

 

[realpinochet]

Can you link a video of someone running a load on a Growatt, off grid, without a battery? With enough solar and a bunch of capacitors, it might work, but it won't be stable. Enphase says their iQ8 inverters can do it, but it also has "load controllers" to disconnect things that it can't run.

My solution is having 3 completely independent batteries. Any one of them can run my system pretty well. If I lose a BMS or a cell, I will only lose one of the banks. They are on separate fuses, cutoff switches, and BMS's.

I think it would have worked with a bigger array..but I only want to power a freezer or two.

 

[GXMnow]

I think it would have worked with a bigger array..but I only want to power a freezer or two.

That went pretty much how I expected.
With a decent capacitor bank, you can get nearly 90% of the solar array power into AC output power. But without a battery, it just has no headroom for any kind of a surge. I agree with Will, even a tiny battery will make it far more useful. I bet just one of my 48 volt 14S 6 amp hour E-Bike batteries would have made it able to run the A/C. That small pack is rated to 80 amps of output current. While 6 amp hours won't run much load for long, it will easily cover a few clouds going by.

The whole trick to making these things work with no battery is the solar charge controller side needs to be FAST!!. Any change in load current or solar energy supply needs to be seen, calculated, and adjusted for in the time in a half cycle of the AC output. The more capacitor it has, the more time it has to respond, but we are still talking milliseconds. As the pure sine wave inverter is drawing power from the capacitor bank, the solar charge controller has to constantly adjust it's output current to try and hold the capacitors at the exact correct voltage. My guess is that they are doing this on a high voltage buss, since it is a high frequency inverter.

Just because it CAN run without a battery does not mean it is ideal like that. Any large change in load or solar input can cause i to shut off. Adding even a small batter is just going to make it much more stable.

 

[400bird]

I guess that's the difference between can and should.

Anyways, I was hoping to fix the coolant leak tomorrow. But FIL's car broke down, so that takes the battery time from my Saturday.

 

[realpinochet]

 

[GXMnow]

15 x 315 watt panels = 4,725 watts worth of panels. Sure they have low sun angle, but the array is still making more than the 1,800 watts the welder is asking for. The inverter is only drawing the amount of power needed to supply the load. And if you have some headroom, it can work, we see that. I just have to question how useful it really is. Any time you are not drawing power from the inverter, the energy the solar panels are making is just being lost. Storing that energy for use later is far more efficient. My array is very close to that shown in the video. With an off grid no battery setup, I could run 1,200 watts at 9 am. 2,300 watts at 10 am. Peaking at 3,400 watts at solar noon. But if I am just watching tv at noon, maybe using 700 watts total, over 2,000 watts is just being thrown away. And after 6 pm, I couldn't do anything. Add 100 amp hours of 48 volt battery, and you can use over 3 kilowatt hours anytime, even over night. The solar array puts that energy back in the batteries when the sun shines, instead of throwing it all away. I do see some minor benefit of being able to get some power if the batteries fail, but I see no advantage over not having any batteries.

 

[realpinochet]

15 x 315 watt panels = 4,725 watts worth of panels. Sure they have low sun angle, but the array is still making more than the 1,800 watts the welder is asking for. The inverter is only drawing the amount of power needed to supply the load. And if you have some headroom, it can work, we see that. I just have to question how useful it really is. Any time you are not drawing power from the inverter, the energy the solar panels are making is just being lost. Storing that energy for use later is far more efficient. My array is very close to that shown in the video. With an off grid no battery setup, I could run 1,200 watts at 9 am. 2,300 watts at 10 am. Peaking at 3,400 watts at solar noon. But if I am just watching tv at noon, maybe using 700 watts total, over 2,000 watts is just being thrown away. And after 6 pm, I couldn't do anything. Add 100 amp hours of 48 volt battery, and you can use over 3 kilowatt hours anytime, even over night. The solar array puts that energy back in the batteries when the sun shines, instead of throwing it all away. I do see some minor benefit of being able to get some power if the batteries fail, but I see no advantage over not having any batteries.

I hear you.. but my point early on was that while I plan on running with batteries, most likely 4/6 eg4, it's nice to have a inverter that can run without batteries or grid. You never know ..something might take your battery bank out and you're off grid. It would be nice to power a deep freezer during the day since they stay cold all night without power. I'm talking emergency situations here. Some of us here on diy solar have a prepper mindset...that's all I'm conveying. Not all inverters can do this, in fact I don't think either conext or radian do this from what I've been told. I'd probably keep one of these AIO inverters in storage for emergencies.

 

[GXMnow]

I hear you.. but my point early on was that while I plan on running with batteries, most likely 4/6 eg4, it's nice to have a inverter that can run without batteries or grid. You never know ..something might take your battery bank out and you're off grid. It would be nice to power a deep freezer during the day since they stay cold all night without power. I'm talking emergency situations here. Some of us here on diy solar have a prepper mindset...that's all I'm conveying. Not all inverters can do this, in fact I don't think either conext or radian do this from what I've been told. I'd probably keep one of these AIO unites in storage for emergencies.

You are correct. Conext (Schneider) and Outback (Radian) inverters absolutely will not be stable an probably won't even power up without a battery of some sort.

I don't see a need in my use case. My system has 3 BMS units. The odds of losing all three are pretty slim. And in a pinch, If I needed power under those conditions, I could jump out the BMS of any one string that the batteries measured in range. I would need to keep a close eye on it without the BMS working, but for a dire emergency, it would work.

Are we talking about making it through an EMP event? Yeah, my solar inverters and the XW would probably get cooked along with all 3 BMS units. But since my house is also melted from the H bomb, I may have other concerns as well.

I am not (anti prepper) but I guess my level of being prepared is a bit lower. I do keep 5 gallons of fresh gasoline and my old school generator in operating condition. It has no electronics, just coils, so it should survive the apocalypse.

 

[realpinochet]

You are correct. Conext (Schneider) and Outback (Radian) inverters absolutely will not be stable an probably won't even power up without a battery of some sort.

I don't see a need in my use case. My system has 3 BMS units. The odds of losing all three are pretty slim. And in a pinch, If I needed power under those conditions, I could jump out the BMS of any one string that the batteries measured in range. I would need to keep a close eye on it without the BMS working, but for a dire emergency, it would work.

Are we talking about making it through an EMP event? Yeah, my solar inverters and the XW would probably get cooked along with all 3 BMS units. But since my house is also melted from the H bomb, I may have other concerns as well.

I am not (anti prepper) but I guess my level of being prepared is a bit lower. I do keep 5 gallons of fresh gasoline and my old school generator in operating condition. It has no electronics, just coils, so it should survive the apocalypse.

I would like to try to prepare for a emp and put a few things like a aio unit in a Faraday cage / bag along side a few portable ham radios and such. A cage that's not hard to build could hold a smaller spare freezer and other essentials. If that ever happens this place is going to turn into the walking dead so I don't know how much all this would help...but the world is on fire and it's becoming more and more possible. I'm more concerned with a battery bank getting smoked from a failed bms that takes all the batteries out. I see this in the "up in smoke" section ..where somebodies charge controller went on a rampage and over volted the batteries where just one bms got compromised and torched the whole place. There's got to be a way to protect from a bms failure..maybe a fuse before it or a shunt breaker? That forum is what makes me want to try and put all the solar stuff out in a separate shelter like a shipping container, move the utility power over to that and then feed the output back to the house main panel. FYI..a high altitude nuclear explosion would produce the pulses to take electronics out but would not be at the correct angle and altitude to destroy structures. It's not just nuclear ...a mass corona ejection can emp us to.

 

[400bird]

All the reports I've seen of failed charge controllers frying BMSs and packs were FET based BMS units and how do I say it nicely? Cheepo charge controllers.

I'd propose addressing the failure from both sides.
BMS(s) with relays/contactor
Tier one (isolated) charge controller

 

[realpinochet]

All the reports I've seen of failed charge controllers frying BMSs and packs were FET based BMS units and how do I say it nicely? Cheepo charge controllers.

I'd propose addressing the failure from both sides.
BMS(s) with relays/contactor
Tier one (isolated) charge controller

The two products I'm leaning into for the main system are radian 8048 and conext 6848 ...I'd assume both manufactures make good a good scc? Do you have to use one specific to the manufacture you choose to integrate and work well with the system overall as in communicating with the software and all for features? Example lets say I get either one of the systems but choose a midnight classic as I see they are good...does this work well? Can you elaborate more on this. "BMS(s) with relays/contactor" What does relays / contactor look like in the system. I know what a BMS is but not the latter. And thank you for your time.