400bird
Solar Wizard
The current firmware 1.11.01 bn49 broke thing for multiple users here. Myself included, it mutilated the EPC power control over modbus that I was using.
I had to roll back to 1.11.00
Adding Schneider XW Pro
- Thread starter 400bird
- Start date
I had to roll back to 1.11.00
"I ran the generator last week. The XW Pro saw it and used it when I
removed AC1 from the grid. This is the 1.09.00bn9 firmware
I have settings at ...
AC Breaker at 18 amps
Generator Support at 14 amps" from 10/29/2020
---
"After XW6848-21 0 upgrade to 1.11.01bn49, sell to grid has stopped." from email 10/13/2021
later that day ...
"fyi
Its selling now ...
with 1.11.00bn28 on 6848
and v1.14 bn 488 on gateway
will leave alone"
I hope this helps.
removed AC1 from the grid. This is the 1.09.00bn9 firmware
I have settings at ...
AC Breaker at 18 amps
Generator Support at 14 amps" from 10/29/2020
---
"After XW6848-21 0 upgrade to 1.11.01bn49, sell to grid has stopped." from email 10/13/2021
later that day ...
"fyi
Its selling now ...
with 1.11.00bn28 on 6848
and v1.14 bn 488 on gateway
will leave alone"
I hope this helps.
"More importantly, can you have them make AC coupling work properly! Or have a timed charge cycle start?!"
What AC coupling issues have you ?
I have a few Fronius IG5100 that do fine on the output side of the XW 6848 Pro. I have to watch power levels of course. The XW takes in energy when loads are lower than pv, and vice versa. Seems to accomodate 5 to 6 kw swings fine for me. Difficulty comes when my loads are up at 7 kw and higher. Sudden cloud cover can put me over limits.
What AC coupling issues have you ?
I have a few Fronius IG5100 that do fine on the output side of the XW 6848 Pro. I have to watch power levels of course. The XW takes in energy when loads are lower than pv, and vice versa. Seems to accomodate 5 to 6 kw swings fine for me. Difficulty comes when my loads are up at 7 kw and higher. Sudden cloud cover can put me over limits.
"So, do you know what feature software version they fixed the generator qualifying issue?"
At 1.11.00bn28 I don't consider AC2 qualify to be fixed, just better than 1.09
I don't run genset enough to bother with a real fix. Newer firmware always plagues me and I don't have the time to do S/E debugging anymore.
At 1.11.00bn28 I don't consider AC2 qualify to be fixed, just better than 1.09
I don't run genset enough to bother with a real fix. Newer firmware always plagues me and I don't have the time to do S/E debugging anymore.
I just looked now -- the latest firmware release was 10/5/2021
XW-Pro-6848-120-240V-Firmware-v1.11_BN0049
Thats the one that broke my sell last year.
This above is at the current page below ...
solar.se.com
XW-Pro-6848-120-240V-Firmware-v1.11_BN0049
Thats the one that broke my sell last year.
This above is at the current page below ...
XW Pro 120/240V
The Schneider Electric XW Pro 6848 solar inverter provides flexible design with optional generator integration for home and small businesses.
solar.se.com
GXMnow
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2020
- Messages
- 2,792
I am way behind on firmware 1.03 on the XW-Pro, but it is stable and working great with my Modbus control. The Gateway is on 1.08 and has only crashed twice in 2 years, so not too bad. And when the gateway crashed, the XW keeps working, but I lose the Modbus control.
Instead of a Pi, I am using a Triangle Research Nano-10 PLC.
Nano-10 PLC - Low Cost Programmable Logic Controller | TRi
High-end features included standard on a low cost, nano PLC. Modbus TCP Client/Server, RS485, ADC, Digital I/O, HSC/Interrupt/Stepper/PWM
triplc.com
Once I figured out my dumb programming mistake, it works great. It is relay ladder logic for the basic sequencing, but then a relay closure can then run a block of Basic code. And the code directly supports Modbus, both RS485 serial, which I am using to read power meters, and TCP which I am using to read data and send the commands to the XW-Pro, via the Gateway. I also added the battery backed up real time clock option which increases the memory as well, but I'm not sure it's really needed.
I am going to be doing a bit of code changes to use a bit more off peak time grid power to keep my battery charged a bit more on hot days when the A/C is running a lot. The plan is to have enough battery to run the A/C during the peak rate time without needing grid power. My current code leaves it exporting about 50 watts, even during off peak time with the rest of the unused power going to the battery bank. In winter to spring it worked perfectly. When the solar production exceeded the house draw by 300 watts, it starts the XW-Pro charging, and then adjusts the charge every 5 seconds to keep the grid export under 100 watts. But in this hot weather, when the A/C kicks on, the battery is not charging enough. It has been going over 100F out every day for over a week. The heat also drops my solar output about 10% compared to spring.
I just got back from a 3 day trip....
I just looked in on my system. Seems the PLC had a run time error some time on Tuesday night. So my battery did not charge at all on Wednesday. And it has not charge today until now, when I rebooted the PLC. It looks like it was a divide by zero error in my code. I was pretty sure I had traps for that, but I guess I missed one. Tonight I will look through my code some more. I am going to add a check, if it is between 10 am and 4 pm, I will ignore the current draw from the A/C and still let it charge from the solar power available.
What is your battery ? I use jkbms on my 17 cells. It is bluetooth connected thru a pi zero. I have no contactor to protect my cells. Just monitor the individual cells to safe levels and use modbus to stop XW charge. Discharge protection is lessen the loads coding. I suppose I can tell XW to off the inverter if extreme conditions dictate. Never get outside or 3.1 to 3.5 volt range.
Can I assume your microinverters are all on the XW output side ?
All my grid tie inverters have been hacked to off-grid, have a 5 second timeout for cycling. You know the freq shift disconnect logic. Have you been able to get the microinverters to fast cycle back on if tripped off ?
All my grid tie inverters have been hacked to off-grid, have a 5 second timeout for cycling. You know the freq shift disconnect logic. Have you been able to get the microinverters to fast cycle back on if tripped off ?
GXMnow
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2020
- Messages
- 2,792
Yes, that is me. Yes, the entire Enphase system, is now on a breaker in my backup loads panel from the XW-Pro.
My Enphase iQ7 inverters are running the normal Cal Rule 21 profile which supports frequency watt control. I have not done an extended off grid test since the last firmware update. On my last short grid outage, I was not home, but I looked at as much of my data as I could when I got back. That was before I had the PLC working properly, so there were some issues. The worst part was that I had the charge rate set very low, I think like 18% of 140 amps (just 25 amps). So when the grid went down, the XW saw the charge current going up to 60 amps. It started shifting the frequency to cause the microinverters to reduce their output, but evidently it didn't drop the output enough, or fast enough, before 5 of my 16 inverter went offline and stopped producing. That dropped the charge current enough that frequency moved back towards 60 Hz. In just one minute, those 5 inverters came back on, and the cycle repeated about 5 times in 10 minutes. The other 11 inverters never cut out. So it held the charge current just under the programmed 25 amps until something else started drawing power, or the sun went down. I can't tell which from the data, and just 20 minutes later, the grid came back on.
There seems to be a little disagreement in how to interpret frequency shift power curtailment. Schneider expects the shift to immediately reduce power by a percentage of what is being produced by the solar panels. And that seems like a sound assumption, but it is not what Enphase appears to be doing. From what I could see in the data, the frequency shift appears to reduce the current limit. My iQ7's are rated at 240 watts, 1 amp at 240 volts. But in the early evening, 5 pm, my panels are only making 120 watts each. So each inverter is now putting only about 1/2 an amp into my system. If the XW raises the frequency to 61 Hz, the current limit of the iQ7's will drop by 50% to 1/2 amp. That would cut the power at solar noon, but at 5 pm, it made no difference, because the output was already down to 50% of the limit. As the frequency shifted further, they did start to cut power again, but 5 of them saw it as "unstable grid" in the logs. I have no record of how far the frequency shifted. My guess is it got close to 62 Hz. The crystal reference in those 5 inverters must just be a little low, so it saw the grid out of range, while the rest of them were only curtailing and didn't shut off. And since the grid voltage never varied, they didn't requalify. When the frequency came back into range, they came back on without the 5 minute delay.
As good as the Modbus control is, I would not trust that alone to save the batteries. The full charge voltage, and low battery cut off voltage should be the first line to keep the batteries safe, as long as they are balanced. The big problem is when LFP cells get even a little out of balance. Once cell can go running when it reaches the top knee, even if all the other cells are at 3.4 volts. My battery bank is actually split into 3 sections now. I have a 200 amp JK smart BMS with 2 strings in parallel. The the other 2 strings each have their own 100 amp dumb Daly BMS. They are all Mosfet switch type, but running well under their ratings. My maximum charge and discharge power is just 140 amps total. Even with bad current sharing, I doubt any string will see 40 amps. Each string has a 100 amps fuse, and then all 4 strings go to a 225 amp fuse to the XW. The max surge rating of 12,000 watts would be 240 amps at 50 volts.
My Enphase iQ7 inverters are running the normal Cal Rule 21 profile which supports frequency watt control. I have not done an extended off grid test since the last firmware update. On my last short grid outage, I was not home, but I looked at as much of my data as I could when I got back. That was before I had the PLC working properly, so there were some issues. The worst part was that I had the charge rate set very low, I think like 18% of 140 amps (just 25 amps). So when the grid went down, the XW saw the charge current going up to 60 amps. It started shifting the frequency to cause the microinverters to reduce their output, but evidently it didn't drop the output enough, or fast enough, before 5 of my 16 inverter went offline and stopped producing. That dropped the charge current enough that frequency moved back towards 60 Hz. In just one minute, those 5 inverters came back on, and the cycle repeated about 5 times in 10 minutes. The other 11 inverters never cut out. So it held the charge current just under the programmed 25 amps until something else started drawing power, or the sun went down. I can't tell which from the data, and just 20 minutes later, the grid came back on.
There seems to be a little disagreement in how to interpret frequency shift power curtailment. Schneider expects the shift to immediately reduce power by a percentage of what is being produced by the solar panels. And that seems like a sound assumption, but it is not what Enphase appears to be doing. From what I could see in the data, the frequency shift appears to reduce the current limit. My iQ7's are rated at 240 watts, 1 amp at 240 volts. But in the early evening, 5 pm, my panels are only making 120 watts each. So each inverter is now putting only about 1/2 an amp into my system. If the XW raises the frequency to 61 Hz, the current limit of the iQ7's will drop by 50% to 1/2 amp. That would cut the power at solar noon, but at 5 pm, it made no difference, because the output was already down to 50% of the limit. As the frequency shifted further, they did start to cut power again, but 5 of them saw it as "unstable grid" in the logs. I have no record of how far the frequency shifted. My guess is it got close to 62 Hz. The crystal reference in those 5 inverters must just be a little low, so it saw the grid out of range, while the rest of them were only curtailing and didn't shut off. And since the grid voltage never varied, they didn't requalify. When the frequency came back into range, they came back on without the 5 minute delay.
As good as the Modbus control is, I would not trust that alone to save the batteries. The full charge voltage, and low battery cut off voltage should be the first line to keep the batteries safe, as long as they are balanced. The big problem is when LFP cells get even a little out of balance. Once cell can go running when it reaches the top knee, even if all the other cells are at 3.4 volts. My battery bank is actually split into 3 sections now. I have a 200 amp JK smart BMS with 2 strings in parallel. The the other 2 strings each have their own 100 amp dumb Daly BMS. They are all Mosfet switch type, but running well under their ratings. My maximum charge and discharge power is just 140 amps total. Even with bad current sharing, I doubt any string will see 40 amps. Each string has a 100 amps fuse, and then all 4 strings go to a 225 amp fuse to the XW. The max surge rating of 12,000 watts would be 240 amps at 50 volts.
400bird
Solar Wizard
The coupling is fine. But, when AC coupled it won't initiate a charge cycle and it won't follow available solar power to only charge from the sun.
Lol, I got in line and waited 3 months to get a regular PI 4
No spares, sorry. But, if I did, I'm sure there worth at least $200 ?
For a lot of this little stuff an ESP32 is an easier solution... and available at a lower MSRP.
I am writing here since my concern surrounds an S/E Insight box. Does anyone that reads this have issues with wifi connectivity and the S/E I nsight interface ? Have an xw6848 Pro with it. Seems to disconnect after a day or so and requires a three-minute power cycle to recover. Currently have the firmware at Version: v1.14 Build 488 [ 17 th Sept 2021] which I believe is the latest and greatest version.
Hedges
I See Electromagnetic Fields!
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2020
- Messages
- 21,532
I don't use those devices, but the issue may be related to IP address assignments other internet connected devices have.
Checking what documents I find on Insight, not much details.
I had similar behavior with an iPhone connected to employer's guest WiFi connection. There were instructions to tell iPhone to keep a constant address, not get a new one each day. Prior to doing that step I had connectivity for just one day, afterwards it remained connected.
Individual devices all have their own instructions. GXMnow said he learned how to tell their router to use a fixed IP address and configure it for each device where that is needed.
solar.se.com
diysolarforum.com
Checking what documents I find on Insight, not much details.
I had similar behavior with an iPhone connected to employer's guest WiFi connection. There were instructions to tell iPhone to keep a constant address, not get a new one each day. Prior to doing that step I had connectivity for just one day, afterwards it remained connected.
Individual devices all have their own instructions. GXMnow said he learned how to tell their router to use a fixed IP address and configure it for each device where that is needed.
Insight
Insight energy management platform brings intuitive monitoring and control to homeowners, commercial site operators and solar installers.
solar.se.com
Adding storage to my Enphase system
My fear is that the power companies will not continue that practice and start paying you five cents and charging you 30 cents kw at night. If you enter into an agreement with the power company it would be wise to have an iron clad contract with them so they do not pull the rug out from you...
diysolarforum.com
Found recently that newer cell phones, even androids, will change their mac address when they make a different wifi connection. SUCH A PAIN IN THE ARSE. It like the newest, latest and greatest, are doing their best TO FORCE US ON THEIR CLOUD. I want no part of any cloud and want everything local. WEB LESS.
GXMnow
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2020
- Messages
- 2,792
My system is using the older Gateway, and I am still on older firmware, but hope to be updating it shortly.
I still have all of the devices on my network se to DHCP, but my router, and Asus AC1900, has a table where you can select the ip address it will issue to each MAC address. This way, I always know what ip it will give to the devices. So my Gateway stays at the same place. The only exception to this is my PLC. Using DHCP on that could be a problem, so it has a fixed ip address, set outside of the range that the router can assign. So it can't make an ip conflict.
I have had my Gateway lock up 3 times where it needed a reboot to function normally again, but that is over a full 2 year span. It is annoying when it happens, but it has not been enough to be a big concern yet. I do have the cloud access turned on, but I monitor it with the local direct access 98% of the time. But there have been a few times, I looked in on it remotely, and it is nice to be able to do that. And when I was having a configuration issue, it also allowed Schneider tech support to see what was going on. It has not done anything to make me turn off cloud access yet.
400bird
Solar Wizard
It's going to be 115 ish here today and was 105 yesterday. Even at 100f the current solar doesn't come close to covering loads to the end of PGE's peak rates.
So, I spent some time this weekend (and I had been mulling this on and off for a while) making a plan and looking at roof measurements. Staying with reasonable measurements, I can add 2 large 480 panels and still pass inspection.
Then Alt E emailed a discount code, plus they are close enough to drive and pick everything up.
So I pulled the trigger to add 1920 watts DC coupled to the XW.
For permitting and inspection I'll put two of the panels on the roof. I'll end up putting the other pair on a ground mount.
I went with the Midnight Classic 150, due to the excellent price and built in arc fault and ground fault detection.
Later, I've got some room to move around my current, AC coupled array, and add about 1000 watts to that.
So, I spent some time this weekend (and I had been mulling this on and off for a while) making a plan and looking at roof measurements. Staying with reasonable measurements, I can add 2 large 480 panels and still pass inspection.
Then Alt E emailed a discount code, plus they are close enough to drive and pick everything up.
So I pulled the trigger to add 1920 watts DC coupled to the XW.
For permitting and inspection I'll put two of the panels on the roof. I'll end up putting the other pair on a ground mount.
I went with the Midnight Classic 150, due to the excellent price and built in arc fault and ground fault detection.
Later, I've got some room to move around my current, AC coupled array, and add about 1000 watts to that.
400bird
Solar Wizard
GXMnow, thanks for the verification in your thread.
I don't really have pictures to share, but I was able to use Node Red to automate my OhmConnect events. It now automatically bumps the grid sell current up to 27 amps any time there is an event. This evening, with the high temps and Flex Alert emergency thing, right at 6:00, when the OhmConnect even started, the system automatically changed from 1 amp sell to 27 amp sell.
It's working great!
I don't really have pictures to share, but I was able to use Node Red to automate my OhmConnect events. It now automatically bumps the grid sell current up to 27 amps any time there is an event. This evening, with the high temps and Flex Alert emergency thing, right at 6:00, when the OhmConnect even started, the system automatically changed from 1 amp sell to 27 amp sell.
It's working great!
GXMnow
Solar Wizard
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2020
- Messages
- 2,792
After hunting around, I think I came to the same conclusion as you...
As much as I don't want a 3rd monitoring software, the Midnight Solar Classic charge controller does seem to solve a lot of the issues. It is a bit more expensive than just the 140 volt Schneider charge controller, but once you factor in the arc fault protection, it becomes quite a bit cheaper.
I am trying to find complete wiring diagrams for setting up the Midnight Classic. To meet the RSD requirements, I assume it still needs something like the Tigo shut off box at each panel. The two manuals I have found online do not talk about RSD at all.
As much as I don't want a 3rd monitoring software, the Midnight Solar Classic charge controller does seem to solve a lot of the issues. It is a bit more expensive than just the 140 volt Schneider charge controller, but once you factor in the arc fault protection, it becomes quite a bit cheaper.
I am trying to find complete wiring diagrams for setting up the Midnight Classic. To meet the RSD requirements, I assume it still needs something like the Tigo shut off box at each panel. The two manuals I have found online do not talk about RSD at all.
400bird
Solar Wizard
I ordered the Tigo RSD and dual (2 panel) boxes to mount on the panels.
I don't think the Midnight has any way to interface with the Tigo RSD and that doesn't appear to be required. I screwed up and ordered parts before getting my permits approved, so I'm rushing to get my permit package together this weekend.
I believe midnight charge controllers include a dry contact relay. There might be settings to open the relay in case of an arc fault or ground fault. I haven't looked into this, but in theory it would work if:
I am remembering correctly and it is a dry contact.
And
If midnight has the option to connect the aux output to an arc fault or ground fault.
I don't think the Midnight has any way to interface with the Tigo RSD and that doesn't appear to be required. I screwed up and ordered parts before getting my permits approved, so I'm rushing to get my permit package together this weekend.
I believe midnight charge controllers include a dry contact relay. There might be settings to open the relay in case of an arc fault or ground fault. I haven't looked into this, but in theory it would work if:
I am remembering correctly and it is a dry contact.
And
If midnight has the option to connect the aux output to an arc fault or ground fault.
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