AIO replacement options for off grid

[MTM98290]

I have been contemplating how to future proof our small off grid system. We have a Growatt that has working perfectly fine for 20 months. Unfortunately it looks like the China AIO units aren't going to be well supported. Watts247 has disclaimers on some MPP and Growatt units that they will no longer offer warranty support for certain models. I know that they have parts but for how long?

I hate nothing more than garbage companies that change designs constantly just to rope in new customers only to let them down later when their unit is "obsolete" and parts are listed as no longer available.

The EG4 stuff is constantly changing so they look to be following the same model.

I knew this was the chance we were taking when we purchased the unit, and It has accomplished what we needed for budget and time considerations. We have no regrets with the purchase.

My point is that I would like to find an Inverter option that will be the same in 10 years as it is today. I would like a product to be like a Volvo 240 or a VW beetle and not a throwaway that is constantly changing like a cell phone. I don't need any more options to be added to any product that I dont own, so I don't want the Item that I spent so much on to change other than small incremental improvements, not new frills and gimmicks.

I know that Midnite makes great stuff and doesn't chase trendy new features so I consider them more trustworthy, however their inverters are far larger and more expensive than I will be interested in for many years.

Outback looks to be similar in this regard but I am slightly less familiar with their product line.

Victron looks like they are somewhat constant in design too, and they have the solar system lego type modularity and a self explanatory naming system which I find appealing.

Schnieder and Xantrex also seem look to be serious products built for longevity and repairability but I don't know much about them.

The Morningstar Puresine inverters look to be great quality and I am heavily leaning toward adding a 300w for the low idle consuption as well as the fan-less design.
I know that these are fairly new to the market, but I am guessing that they will stay largely unchanged for a long while.

Am I missing any serious options for 48V inverters?

All of the Grid tied stuff is serious in this regard as it has to stay functional for 20+ years, but it is not of any interest to many of us who just want an independent system, and can't use this stuff anyway.

 

[Skypower]

I’m thinking that the Voltronic 6548 family is not well supported, especially if out of warranty. You might be SOL. There are so many versions within that family that are not compatible. Some you will brick if you try to update the wrong model or rebranded version. I have actually seen a successful split phase of a EG4 and a Sungold but I’m thinking that was sheer luck. I don’t know if there’s any repair station in the states but they could make a mint if they could get parts. My suggestion is if you need two inverters of this type get four at the same time. Mine are the MPP version and the only problem I have is one of the back lights for one of the displays is dimming so I defaulted it to off to save it, worse case I do surgery and install my own lamp. If I had to get another economy AIO inverter today, I’d probably just find some Sungold 6500. You could probably negotiate a 4 unit package deal for 4k from some sellers. Their reliability by sheer luck seems to have been a little better than some other rebrands. Just consider that you may have poor support in the future and consider them disposable or parts donor and you’ll have a good mindset. You pretty much have a good grasp on the virtues are on the other names you mentioned.

 

[MichaelK]

I know that Midnite makes great stuff and doesn't chase trendy new features so I consider them more trustworthy, however their inverters are far larger and more expensive than I will be interested in for many years.

Outback looks to be similar in this regard but I am slightly less familiar with their product line.

Victron looks like they are somewhat constant in design too, and they have the solar system lego type modularity and a self explanatory naming system which I find appealing.

Schnieder and Xantrex also seem look to be serious products built for longevity and repairability but I don't know much about them.

The Morningstar Puresine inverters look to be great quality and I am heavily leaning toward adding a 300w for the low idle consuption as well as the fan-less design.

Simple answer here. You get what you pay for. Pay money for a cheap inverter, and you get a cheap product.

Buy any of the five brands listed and you'll have products that are around for 20 years.

 

[MTM98290]

Simple answer here. You get what you pay for. Pay money for a cheap inverter, and you get a cheap product.

Buy any of the five brands listed and you'll have products that are around for 20 years.

I agree with the concept of you get what you pay for, but this is not always the case. If one of the top quality companies started replacing models every other year, and stopped selling parts, I would consider that almost as bad as low quality.

 

[Crowz]

I'd run what I had till it croaks in place of just replacing it on the future proof part if what you have now is covering your current needs. I can see having one backup unit to cover a future failure but if I was going to do that I would probably buy something "cheap" since whatever you buy now might be outdated by the time the current gear fails.

So in the future you can "upgrade" to a much nicer unit using what will be available then and have a cheap backup now to get you there if needed.

 

[MTM98290]

I'd run what I had till it croaks in place of just replacing it on the future proof part if what you have now is covering your current needs. I can see having one backup unit to cover a future failure but if I was going to do that I would probably buy something "cheap" since whatever you buy now might be outdated by the time the current gear fails.

So in the future you can "upgrade" to a much nicer unit using what will be available then and have a cheap backup now to get you there if needed.

i am planning on leaving system intact, I just want to add separate components to give redundancy and options.

The plan is
1 add Midnite Kid scc and 1kw of pv (we currently have 2kw)

2 add 300w Suresine for low idle consumption while away

3 add auto start generator

4 Add large inverter alongside current AIO. Likely a 2500w Morningstar if the 300w works out well

If the Growatt were to fail after these steps I would just need to add an scc for current array and we would be set.

I'm thinking that 2500w+300w=2800w and will be a fine replacement for the 3Kw Growatt.

I do like the functionality of the growatt. If Growatt looks repairable after an issue I would try to fix it myself if it is simple, if not I would see if a local electronics repair could fix it. Hopefully I won't have to deal with that for a long while.

 

[MTM98290]

I'd run what I had till it croaks in place of just replacing it on the future proof part if what you have now is covering your current needs. I can see having one backup unit to cover a future failure but if I was going to do that I would probably buy something "cheap" since whatever you buy now might be outdated by the time the current gear fails.

So in the future you can "upgrade" to a much nicer unit using what will be available then and have a cheap backup now to get you there if needed.

I could have purchased a duplicate for as little as $499 recently but decided that saving for a quality separate inverter makes more sense than keeping something around in case the other breaks.

 

[Solarcabin Channel]

By the time you need a new inverter the tech will likely be greatly improved.

That happened many times over the years from when I first went off grid and for the last 10 years I was still using a Blue Sky MPPT controller which was one of the first that came out and Vmax tank batteries, They were still working but the new Renogy MPPT has higher output and accepts more volt settings and LFP batteries have twice the capacity so it was time to update.

As long as the equipment is working I wouldn't fret about it and enjoy the fact your equipment held up.

I still keep that Blue Sky controller and Vmax batteries and will be using them for a solar irrigation project come spring.

 

[MTM98290]

By the time you need a new inverter the tech will likely be greatly improved.

That happened many times over the years from when I first went off grid and for the last 10 years I was still using a Blue Sky MPPT controller which was one of the first that came out and Vmax tank batteries, They were still working but the new Renogy MPPT has higher output and accepts more volt settings and LFP batteries have twice the capacity so it was time to update.

As long as the equipment is working I wouldn't fret about it and enjoy the fact your equipment held up.

I still keep that Blue Sky controller and Vmax batteries and will be using them for a solar irrigation project come spring.

I agree completely. I am not fretting about it at all and we are enjoying it very much. The only part I really consider done is the array on the roof. I can always reconfigure the other stuff. It just takes time and money. I want to build in redundancy. I don't want to spend hard earned dollars on products that are like cheap athletic shoes where as soon as you find a type that you like the company changes them. I want a Doc Martens or Redwing Boot type of product. Most here probably remember the good old days when a VCR would go for 25+ years and parts were available if the need were to arise. The disposable, forced obsolescence, just in time delivery world we are in today can be frustrating.

The other consideration is that we don't manufacture much here in the US anymore and much of what we do manufacture could grind to a halt very quickly. We are still feeling the effects of "2020". The market is functioning now, but may not always be, especially in an America that is seeking to limit our options as consumers.

If we continue at the pace we are at now the options in 10 years will likely be very much ahead of what is available today, assuming a lack of government/corporate intervention, but only from those companies that try to produce quality over features and the newest next thing.

 

[Shimmy]

I think you have an uphill battle on this one. AIO and built-in obsolescence are pretty much synonymous. Breaking out components means you add back a re-integration problem.

Repairability is a big question mark though. Modularity sounds great on the surface, but the firmware becomes the gotcha, especially when you have safety features integrated into it.

 

[MTM98290]

I think you have an uphill battle on this one. AIO and built-in obsolescence are pretty much synonymous. Breaking out components means you add back a re-integration problem.

Repairability is a big question mark though. Modularity sounds great on the surface, but the firmware becomes the gotcha, especially when you have safety features integrated into it.

I fully expect the AIO to become obsolete to some degree and that is fine.

What exactly do you mean by reintegration?
Monitoring? Autonomy of the system?

Why would I need to change any firmware?

I purchased the Midnite Kid to add in because it has a menu and all non advanced features are accessible via buttons and lcd. If I add that to my battery bank and use a shunt I can't see how this would cause any issue.

Is it possibly issues like overcharging battery for a short time if there was a large load on the inverter while solar charging, then the load stops and both Mppts are still charging unbeknownst to the other scc. Just a guess really.

 

[Steve_S]

I will chime in with my take on this...
All In One tech is fast moving / evolving and will continue that path, especially on the lower end to value grade. Some AIO Companies have & keep mature product lines going but of course you are now looking at higher cost products. AIO's are modular, internally, so they can be repaired & parts can be swapped out BUT that relies on having those parts available. There's the problem with Fast Evolution is not many will want to stock parts beyond warranty periods. Part of the GotCha for the "convenience"... There is always 2 sides of a coin.

Component Based systems with separate Solar Controllers, Inverter/Charger are far more stable (relative to change) and it should be noted Tier-1 companies like Victron, Schneider, Magnum have long lived solid performing mature products. Same with companies like Midnite Solar, Tristar etc... these are all mature, Time Tested solid performers. YES there is a cost BUT I can still get service & parts on 10 Year old gear without worries !

With a Component Based system, there are MANY Efficiencies that can be gained which an AIO cannot accomplish. Also if any single component fails, it is generally pretty easy to get a replacement part FAST, even if not the exact same model, there are many SCC's & Inverter/Chargers that can be swapped in quickly. SCC's mostly handle 12,24,48 Volts automatically, and getting High Amperage models is not a problem AND you don't need as many panels per SCC... many ignore the fact that 6-8 panels can deliver 100A charge via quality SCC...

 

[Shimmy]

What exactly do you mean by reintegration?
Monitoring? Autonomy of the system?

UL ultimately. We will get to a point where UL requires closer loop communications between chargers, inverters, and the batteries in the name of safety.

Why would I need to change any firmware?

If you get a replacement or refurb control board for a unit you are still limited by whatever functionality is on the installed firmware. May or may not be an issue depending on the exact nature.

 

[Solarcabin Channel]

don't want to spend hard earned dollars on products that are like cheap athletic shoes where as soon as you find a type that you like the company changes them.

Ok, but tech is not like boots or shoes and it evolves very fast to meet the demands of the consumer.

I started programming in BASIC on a Vic 20. That is 20Kb and less that it takes to make a JPG picture.

I certainly don't expect the commodore company (now defunct) to keep making parts for that computer because I liked it.

If you really like a component in your system and want to keep using it you probably need to look on Ebay or another source and pick up a used one for parts or a backup.

It took me awhile to adopt LFP batteries and promote them to other people and I waited to see if the tech was as good as hyped and then tested them out. Same with Ebikes and other new tech and I rarely buy a first generation anything because I know that tech is going to be improved and competition will bring the price down.

One of the things we are seeing now is batteries that last so long that a warranty is simply not possible as the company may nt even be in business by the time that LFP battery fails.

Companies have to keep up with the competition and in tech they need knew bells and whistles and longer life or better features or they won't survive and producing old parts for old systems just isn't profitable to most companies and most dealers won't keep old components on their shelves.

A few companies like Northern Arizona Wind and Sun (now called NAZ Solar) that I started out working with 20 years ago reviewing products is one of the few that does cater to older solar tech systems and can sometimes get parts or a replacement and maybe that is why they have been in business so long.