Any well pump experts? I had a thought...

BiduleOhm

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If you want to see what happens when the water column height gets too big check this video ;)

The fun fact is that you can actually still pump water, but it's water vapor, not liquid water at this point...
 

Wellbuilt

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I don’t think a pump that draws your well down is a great deal .
you need to match your recovery rate , you want to pump water as fast as it is coming in .
When you pump a well to fast and drop the level you start drawing silt ,sand and other goodies into the well and veins in the ground , you end up with a clogged well with no recovery rate to speak of .

I would not get a solar pump to run on panels , it’s a wast of power .
My solar pump will run on ac power and uses 700watts @6 gallons a min
It was as easy as wiring a 12” 12g wire to my 10g pump cable and putting a plug on the end
bam I had water 🤗 It took a uncomfortably long time to get the water up the 700 feet
I was starting to get aggravated 🤬
I would just get a SQF pump when yours dies or you pipe rusts thru .

The pump curve below would work good in your well based on your description.
I would set the pump 35’ off the bottom
guessing your pump was set 30 below the water line @ 200feetso 235’ the pump wi draws 450 watts
With no serge , I can pump water charge my battery’s ang run the house on less the 2200 wats my inverter limits charging and powers the load . Nothing to it I can pump my well starting at 700 watts and stop after I hit 800 watts
so I don’t draw the well down so much . The deeper the water is in the hole the more power the pump uses .
I use a wall timer to turn the pump off .
I think he must have "Known a Guy" and got a "Great Deal" on it. You should have seen the nightmare of electrical setup he had that fried my first generator! :eek:

The water table is about 200ft down, the hole is 305ft according to the drilling report (those things are useful!) and I figured when I was forced to replace it I'd drop the new one down a lot lower. I've run that well dry before trying to get the plumbing all sealed up.

So basically physics says Nope. OK, that's why I asked. It's still working now but draws 11a on each leg of a 220v breaker so the math says either 3Hp or 30% efficient.

I guess I'll put it on the list to replace the pump someday with a solar based one, just not any time soon. I'm still trying to get out there to install the array and system so I can run the lights without the generator running all night. Believe it or not it's REALLY hard to commute from South Korea to Eastern Washington in the 7 hours I have off between watches. 😄
DDBA5303-9ECF-441E-9359-BD2068FB58C3.jpeg
 

Wellbuilt

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I believe all galvanize steel pipes is sch 40 , it’s tough stuff .
The problem is the threaded area above and below the couplers are cut thin and rust fast .
I’ve seen some with pin holds in the side of the pipe but it dosent happen a lot .
 

Kornbread

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After using pvc around the house, I assumed schd40 was in relation to pvc. We have schd80 pvc on our ~300' well.

Yep, not a fan of steel water pipe.
 

Wellbuilt

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My pump uses sch 120 700’ I think it’s 45lb for 100feet
Sch40 galvanized steel drop tube is 167lb for 100 feet
I was close with sch80 so I went to sch 120 the only thing is the walls are thicker and I get a little less water flow
 

Zwy

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I thought about that too until I found out that it's hard pipe all the way down so I'd have to either move the pump house or cut a big hole in the roof. :(

I don't know why, it was installed by the previous owner's dad in the 80's.
Are you certain the roof doesn't come off?

Back in the day, Dad and pulled the working head on his old well 5 times in one year to replace the pump jacket leathers. The casing had developed a hole and sand had poured in he claimed, but I think it was due to the drought from the year before. 20 foot sections of galvanized pipe with the pump rod inside to make twice the work of it. He ended up drilling a new well with a submersible but those cows were thirsty until it was drilled so you kept fixing the old one.

The roof had a hook in the middle and you just lifted it off with the loader. One thing about it, if there was a wind, it was much warmer with the sides still up. As this was an older gent who built it, I'll wager the roof comes off.
 

Wellbuilt

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I don’t even think it matters if the roof comes off just cut a 12x12 hole no big deal
just patch it when you are done.
you could just add a sky lite or just put a air vent over the spot .
The Oopsie Daisy works really good for pulling pipe .
 

Rednecktek

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Are you certain the roof doesn't come off?
Oh yeah, it's steel roof on actual plywood on 2x4's 16"OC over fiberglass insulation over 1/8" sheathing. I really don't want to cut a hole in the roof of the shed I just paid off 3 months ago. 😱

Well, Plan-B looks like I'll have to drop $4100 and get the Shop Solar 4kw 240v package to power the pump and hire the company I bought my shed rom to come out and lift/scoot/set it a couple feet over. That leaves the top of the well head and pipe exposed to the weather but I figure I can build a plywood insulated box around it without too much work.

Fortunately this is a backup plan so no hurry right now as I'm still getting my camp 3kw solar setup installed when I get off the boat next summer and getting the last couple things to get my grid power hooked up.
 

Ozark Tinkering

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Your idea of drawing water up from a 300ft deep well is not going to work. Drawing water up a pipe is limited to about 34ft, any greater draw will result in the water "boiling." That's why pumps are placed at the bottom of deep wells.
Known as cavitation.
 

wild01

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Oh yeah, it's steel roof on actual plywood on 2x4's 16"OC over fiberglass insulation over 1/8" sheathing. I really don't want to cut a hole in the roof of the shed I just paid off 3 months ago. 😱

Well, Plan-B looks like I'll have to drop $4100 and get the Shop Solar 4kw 240v package to power the pump and hire the company I bought my shed rom to come out and lift/scoot/set it a couple feet over. That leaves the top of the well head and pipe exposed to the weather but I figure I can build a plywood insulated box around it without too much work.

Fortunately this is a backup plan so no hurry right now as I'm still getting my camp 3kw solar setup installed when I get off the boat next summer and getting the last couple things to get my grid power hooked up.
If you're moving the shed, swap the pump to a grundfos sq and use your current system. Also add a pitless adapter to the well casing and you don't have to worry about freezing.
 

Ozark Tinkering

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I guess that's true, but the term usually refers to the effects on a piston or a prop.
Actually centrifugal pumps used to pump liquids refer to cavitation all the time. In production processes it is common to throttle the discharge valve beyond the pump (downstream side) but you never throttle the valve on the suction side of the pump due to the fact you will cavitate the pump. Cavitate means to create space or form bubbles That's why you put your centrifugal pump at the bottom of your well. If you put it at the top of the well all you will do is suck air.
Here's a fun fact about centrifugal pumps and the motors that drive them;
You can modulate the current draw on the motor by throttling the discharge valve. That's why the current falls as your pressure in your tank increases. The current draw is inverse to the gpm produced. The beauty and the weakness of an electric motor is it only knows to do 1 thing...run at the speed it was wound to run. No load...few amps. Overload...burn itself to the ground to keep designed rpm.
 

Wellbuilt

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I would add a grundfos SQF pump it uses half the power of a sq and add the pitiless adaptor .
Or just use 1” flex pipe and cut the old pipe off as stated above .
You can add the pump cheaper then building a solar system that is way to big for your needs .
 

Ozark Tinkering

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Do they make sch40 in metal?
Steel pipe, galvanized or otherwise comes in all schedules. Schedule 40 being the most common. Rigid conduit is schedule 40. Most steel pipe used for water is schedule 40. Many plant process systems use schedule 80, 120 and 180. Power plant steam operates at around 1500psi and uses schedule 180.
 

thaddeusk

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if it were me, I'd put in a storage tank and a small pressure tank using a much smaller pump. HF and other places sell small pump/pressure tank combo units for $150 or so. motor rated at 10 amps, so a way smaller battery setup to power it! not to mention, the startup surge would be way less because it's not starting against 300' of head pressure. use a genny to fill the storage tank off your existing well pump once a week or less, then use the little guy to supply your needs from the tank. overall you'll spend much less $$$. you may even find a smaller power draw pump and pressure tank combo that would work.
 

Wellbuilt

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^^^^^^^^^
This is what I have , my well pumps to a tank and then I have a 110v pump to run water in the house
 

TorC

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I largely agree with @thaddeusk, with the caveat that you may need to be careful if your pump can draw down the well. That will work for the time being until you replace the pump. It would cost more, but you could also consider a larger pressure tank, which means you have a sealed system that will require less maintenance, and be good for whatever pump you replace your current one with down the line. Depends somewhat on how much water you need. Up to around 50 gallons I'd be very tempted to go the pressure tank route.
 

Kornbread

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if it were me, I'd put in a storage tank and a small pressure tank using a much smaller pump. HF and other places sell small pump/pressure tank combo units for $150 or so. motor rated at 10 amps, so a way smaller battery setup to power it! not to mention, the startup surge would be way less because it's not starting against 300' of head pressure. use a genny to fill the storage tank off your existing well pump once a week or less, then use the little guy to supply your needs from the tank. overall you'll spend much less $$$. you may even find a smaller power draw pump and pressure tank combo that would work.

I considered installing a large storage tank for the deep well pump to fill, but not necessarily for the purpose of making it any easier on the deep well pump, or the number of times it cycles, but to use in H2O2 water treatment. We have some nasty water. If the op also had water quality issues, he might address both going that route.
 

Rednecktek

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Nope, it was just a thought experiment on ways to mechanically supplement an electric deep well pump.

The water is amazing once you filter the sediment out, better than the 2 brands of bottled water and the water from home we tested it against. :)
 
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