Are there any LiFe batteries that just "Work"? (a bit of a vent)

[time2roll]

My DIY has operated perfectly even with no top balance and grade B cells. I expect it to out live me.

 

[Don B. Cilly]

I wonder though, RNT... have you actually tried LFP (LiFePO4. Lithium Iron, whatever)?
Because, IMHO, whatever shortcomings they might have (which seem to be, basically, a) price and b) ooh, if I run them down way past my BMS allowance, and my BMS is inadequate, I have to to work around restarting them) the peace-of-mind they can afford far outweighs them?
-

 

[Rednecktek]

I wonder though, RNT... have you actually tried LFP

No, I have not yet. The cost barrier, unattended nature, and weather conditions have made me very hesitant to replace my FLA's with LFP's as of yet. My systems can't keep up through winters in the PNW as it is (200w and 300w systems are both incapable of generating 120Wh/day) and I've already had to recondition or replace multiple batteries. So far I'm just over the cost of a single Battleborn 100Ah battery between 3 systems (6x 120Ah FLA's @ $100ea, 4x 12Ah AGM's @ $50ea, and a 36Ah AGM @ $75), so I'm real hesitant to drop $RealMoney on a single LFP that, odds are, I'm going to destroy. Especially when I need so many in various places and voltages.

It just seems to me that with so many things that can go wrong, and so much hands-on time required, it's not worth the investment. I don't know if it's just that there ARE no good BMS's for my needs, or if I'm just going to have to spend a fortune in shipping every time I get home to send BB's back for warranty. The only advantages to LFP seem to be the energy density, I.E. Watts/cubic inch and that's not a factor in any of my situations.

I guess my point is, LFP's aren't perfect for everyone, I'd I'm one of those outliers. It seems like asking LFP's to be as reliable and bulletproof as FLA's is just asking too much at this level of technology.

P.S. Being a solar enthusiast in the PNW really SUCKS 4-5 months a year!

 

[KellyDood]

OK, /VENT:

So it seems like every 3rd topic on here is another "Tweaking with the battery" topic. All over the place you'll see threads about such things as:

My battery hit low voltage and it didn't turn back on
My battery got cold and didn't turn on when it warmed up
I had to log into the app for (all sorts of issues)
My battery has to be reset with a special charger
My battery isn't holding the load
My battery drew too much current and shut off

And so on, and so on, and so on... It seems like there isn't a single LiFe battery manufacturer that just "Works" all the time.

Now, I come from the FLA and AGM world so maybe I'm just biased but I've never had to open an app or connect my battery to the internet to get power out of the terminals. I can charge my batteries with off-the-shelf chargers available at the auto parts store (yes, even 24v).

I've kicked around the idea of pulling the trigger and making my own 24v LiFe pack for my new sheds, but even then I have to have a special "Activation" switch to turn it on, then I have to log in via Bluetooth to configure it, and that's after I have to have a special adjustable bench top power supply to balance all the cells, and so on. That seems like a major hassle when I'm not even stateside for 8-10 months a year. If anything goes wrong with the battery it's just going to sit there dead until I get home?

Granted, I'm not space constrained as much as temperature constrained so I don't have to worry about every ounce of weight. Call me weird but is it too much to ask for a battery that is truly "Plug-n-play"?

Sorry, just getting overwhelmed...

BTW, is anyone ever just whelmed?

Yes, Redneck, I took the plunge and joined LifePO4 cult - still haven't decided what voltage I'll do as I keep ordering more batteries/panels - 4th of each is on the way.
Better not burn my house down!

 

[Steve_S]

The biggest problem people have with LFP is they think the BMS has to cutoff and cut in but that is NOT the BMS' Job ! T%hat is up to YOU the Owner of the equipment to configure the Inverter to cut off BEFORE the BMS' forces it off which allows the battery to go into storage/sleep mode until charge is seen. That also allows the SCC's to "stay in contact" with the battery for the Voltage Setting so that as soonas solar hits, it can charge.

Lead, AGM etc have none of that and say a 12V AGM drops to 9V you can still charge it even though that low voltage isn;t good for AGM it will not cause a failure.... But take a 12V LFP down below 10V and harm IS happening and could result in a failure, this is why a 12V LFP should be cutoff by Inverter no lower than 11.0V or 2.750V per cell which is in the Cliff Fall @ the bottom of the curve.

LFP only has a Working Voltage Range from 3.000-3.400V per cell and THAT is where the delivered AH comes from, not below 2.90 or above 3.450.

 

[Rednecktek]

The biggest problem people have with LFP is they think the BMS has to cutoff and cut in but that is NOT the BMS' Job ! T%hat is up to YOU the Owner of the equipment to configure the Inverter to cut off BEFORE the BMS' forces it off which allows the battery to go into storage/sleep mode until charge is seen. That also allows the SCC's to "stay in contact" with the battery for the Voltage Setting so that as soonas solar hits, it can charge.

And that's great in theory, but I've never seen any basic inverter that had a dial for cut-off voltage. That only really applies to AIO's and the like. When I buy a Giandel 1200w, where's the low voltage cutoff setting? How about a RWBL? Aims? Which wires from my EPEver SCC talk to the BMS in a battery? Where's the plug on my HQST or RichSolar that tells the battery to stop feeding the inverter?

Yes, we have to rely on the BMS to cut off power, the only other option seems to be eating the standby wattage for an AIO with communications ports that have to be configured and programmed... ya know, $RealMoney and WAY overcomplicated and oversized systems for a couple lights and a battery tender in the garden shed, which is exactly the opposite of what I expect a battery to do, which is to provide power at the terminals, charge up when the sun comes out, and discharge when I need it.

Like I said, I get the feeling that the technology just isn't there.

Also, for everyone who says "Just Get Battleborns", will any of you pay the shipping back and forth for the warranty replacements when they fail? At $1600 for my sheds that's a LOT of financial risk that I'm just not willing to take.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

I moved to LFP ten years ago on an ebike project. I find LFPs more efficient and easier despite the need for a BMS. No watering, no equalization, no long CV (absorb and float) stages to make sure they don't lose capacity.

I bet you were sure glad to get rid of that FLA setup that came on your bicycle originally!

 

[Steve_S]

I am sorry BUT Many Mid Tier to Tier-1 Inverter/Chargers and most AIO's do have programmable cutoffs as do quality SCC's even.
You know the saying, "You get what you pay for" does apply. A $500 Value Grade Inverter won't do it with dials or dip switches and THAT is a Reality.

IF you really want to see what Tier-1 Products can do look here, this is teh Inverter/Charger I Use and TOTALLY Programmable (but that is a $2000 Inverter/Charger). https://samlexamerica.com/products/4000-watt-pure-sine-inverter-charger-evo-4024/ WHICH also only uses 8W Standby and is 94% Efficient unlike the Value Gear at 82-88%.

If you want to play with Lithium you need gear that can actually handle it...
Drop in replacements like BB are intended to work with a broad range of gear and as generalized that is they programmed their BMS specifically for that. Offshore Random Prebuilts are NOT the same as say BB or other Large Commercial Drop-In Makers.

You are attempting to compare assorted Fruit & Veg but consider them the same, you'll never get anywhere with that.

The BMS is the EMERGENCY SYSTEM the Fail-Safe Protection, it is there IN CASE ITS NEEDED and not there to be relied on to control things.
Some Advanced (read $$$$) BMS' han do far more but you are into DEEP CASH and serious gear beyond the typical DIY scope.

The TECH is there and ready for people who UNDERSTAND the tech, how & why it works the way it does... It is a Big Learning Curve which includes having to forget a lot of BULL from the Lead/AGM stuff which does not apply to Lithium Based tech. I Started with Heavy Rolls Surette years ago and transitioned to LFP and been at this a while... My docs, manuals and guides are all over the place on this subject.

 

[Ampster]

Like I said, I get the feeling that the technology just isn't there.

As others have said, the technology is there but I get the feeling you expect it to be in low end products to manage Litium technology. Lithium batteries are fundementally pretty simple. Give them a constant charging current until they reach your target voltage. There is really no need for constant voltage (absorb and Float) Absorb is useful if you want to give the BMS time to balance. Pb wastes energy during Absorb and Float but somehow that apparently keeps the cells at similar voltages. Larger packs are difficult to achieve with Pb because of difficulties in being in parallel. Technology costs money to implement but if you do the math the long term cost of ownership is less with Lithium. That is why all the grid level battery systems use Lithium. Pb is still used in telecom but when was the last time you picked up a landline?

 

[Will Prowse]

OK, /VENT:

So it seems like every 3rd topic on here is another "Tweaking with the battery" topic. All over the place you'll see threads about such things as:

My battery hit low voltage and it didn't turn back on
My battery got cold and didn't turn on when it warmed up
I had to log into the app for (all sorts of issues)
My battery has to be reset with a special charger
My battery isn't holding the load
My battery drew too much current and shut off

And so on, and so on, and so on... It seems like there isn't a single LiFe battery manufacturer that just "Works" all the time.

Now, I come from the FLA and AGM world so maybe I'm just biased but I've never had to open an app or connect my battery to the internet to get power out of the terminals. I can charge my batteries with off-the-shelf chargers available at the auto parts store (yes, even 24v).

I've kicked around the idea of pulling the trigger and making my own 24v LiFe pack for my new sheds, but even then I have to have a special "Activation" switch to turn it on, then I have to log in via Bluetooth to configure it, and that's after I have to have a special adjustable bench top power supply to balance all the cells, and so on. That seems like a major hassle when I'm not even stateside for 8-10 months a year. If anything goes wrong with the battery it's just going to sit there dead until I get home?

Granted, I'm not space constrained as much as temperature constrained so I don't have to worry about every ounce of weight. Call me weird but is it too much to ask for a battery that is truly "Plug-n-play"?

Sorry, just getting overwhelmed...

BTW, is anyone ever just whelmed?

Yikes, I would actually have to disagree here. I had to maintain FLA packs for years, and had quite a variety of AGM. They are pretty pathetic, overall.

If you hit low voltage disconnect with the BMS, you should set your inverters LVD to a higher voltage. The BMS should be used as a last resort safety mechanism. This way, you will never have to reset your battery with any special type of charger.

If you cannot power a load with your pack, you bought a low quality pack. They should pull the advertised current rating without issue. We test this all the time on my channel, and most pull what they are rated to. What type of load are you running? If inductive, you should oversize the current capacity of your bank. For solar, it is typically less than .1C, so it should be fine. Your battery is too small.

OCPD in lifepo4 is a fantastic safety feature that lead acid packs do not have. Unless you add your own, obviously.

What overwhelms me is dealing with sulfation and shorted cells. And higher internal resistance. And lower coulombic efficiency. And equalize charges. And voltage sag.

Do you really prefer lead acid? I just cannot see the logic here.

 

[Rednecktek]

OK, fair points. My frustration might just be that I'm a pretty unique use case. Just to throw info in the pot, let me address some of these with what I see as a consumer with bills to pay and no desire to remortgage my house.

Yikes, I would actually have to disagree here. I had to maintain FLA packs for years, and had quite a variety of AGM. They are pretty pathetic, overall.

Adding a little water every 6 months when I get home from sea is pretty negligible labor on my part.

If you hit low voltage disconnect with the BMS, you should set your inverters LVD to a higher voltage. The BMS should be used as a last resort safety mechanism. This way, you will never have to reset your battery with any special type of charger.

Can you show where the low voltage cut off setting dial is on any of these inverters? I can't find them anywhere other than the Victron and Sol-Ark's and those are beyond the budget.

If you cannot power a load with your pack, you bought a low quality pack. They should pull the advertised current rating without issue. We test this all the time on my channel, and most pull what they are rated to. What type of load are you running? If inductive, you should oversize the current capacity of your bank. For solar, it is typically less than .1C, so it should be fine. Your battery is too small.

The problem isn't powering the load as much as living where I do I can't generate enough to compensate for that load in winter, when freezing happens. Everything I've learned here is that freezing + LFP = Boat Anchor. As a couple examples, I have my garden shed with a 200w PSW inverter, it draws 5w (120Wh/day) on standby. It's connected to a 120Ah FLA battery on 200w of panel with a 20a MPPT controller. The inverter alarm goes off for low voltage after 6-8 weeks. My driveway lights have 300w of panel, also consume 120Wh/day and have MPPT controllers on a 36Ah AGM. It has to be jump-started with the Jackery every 4-5 weeks.

Having more battery capacity isn't going to help the generation problem, and 300w of panel for 120Wh/day Should be overkill, right?

I can't replace either of those with LFP because they spend a few days every year below freezing, unless I'm willing to drop $REALMoney on BB's. While I don't mind paying a little extra for features, the cost of those features is more than I can afford AND feed the wife & cats. Hopefully soon the cats will get jobs and help with the bills... I have a hard time swallowing that the temperature probes I throw away on a regular basis and buy for $8 on Amazon are worth $400 if they have the BB sticker on them.

OCPD in lifepo4 is a fantastic safety feature that lead acid packs do not have. Unless you add your own, obviously.

Very true, and very handy to have.

What overwhelms me is dealing with sulfation and shorted cells. And higher internal resistance. And lower coulombic efficiency. And equalize charges. And voltage sag.

But they still put out voltage, right? How many threads on here are about people's LFP packs not turning on without having to tweak them or log into an app, or get internet access connected, or breaking out a special charger to jump start them? I need a system that will run all the time, whether I'm home or at sea and not have to wait for me to come home and twiddle with an app so my battery will turn back on.

Take away your cell phone and computer and internet access and how well can you troubleshoot your batteries if/when something goes wrong?

Do you really prefer lead acid? I just cannot see the logic here.

I really do. In my use case it has many advantages over LFP. Hey @12VoltInstalls , wanna chime in while I'm at it? :D

My camp is unattended for upwards of a year at a time and completely off grid. It spends multiple months below freezing. When I AM home and get to run up there it's usually a couple feet deep in snow and the utility room stays well below freezing. FLA's will still function a week after I get there, LFP's will not having never gotten warm enough to charge without having to make some insulated-secondary-heating-battery-system to warm them up, and hope it can put in enough heat for them to not just crash again. It would take a LOT of extra work and money and fenagling with a stupid app to get my batteries to survive that.

My driveway lights are in a small case and spend a couple weeks at a time below freezing. I haven't seen any FLP's with low temp that would "just work" small enough to fit in there. See "Boat Anchor" above.

I can drive an hour and get a replacement FLA battery. I can also use any off-the-shelf car charger to top it up. Nobody within a few hundred miles of either my house OR my camp carries LFP's other than 1 battery shop that has a couple LFP motorcycle batteries. I'm not paying $250 for a 20Ah FLP with none of the features. Ain't gonna happen.

1x 12v 100Ah BB battery costs the same as 8x 120Ah FLA's and I have bills to pay.


So yeah, I think I'm just asking too much out of technology Right Now and hopefully things will even out better in a few years time. As for until then, it's just really frustrating. It feels like if you want to get into solar, you have to be the average no-temp-swings-perfect-weather-good-used-market, OR you have to be All-Victron-BattleBorn-Spare-Super-Yacht wealthy.

Sometimes people just need to vent, right? :D

 

[Will Prowse]

OK, fair points. My frustration might just be that I'm a pretty unique use case. Just to throw info in the pot, let me address some of these with what I see as a consumer with bills to pay and no desire to remortgage my house.


Adding a little water every 6 months when I get home from sea is pretty negligible labor on my part.


Can you show where the low voltage cut off setting dial is on any of these inverters? I can't find them anywhere other than the Victron and Sol-Ark's and those are beyond the budget.


The problem isn't powering the load as much as living where I do I can't generate enough to compensate for that load in winter, when freezing happens. Everything I've learned here is that freezing + LFP = Boat Anchor. As a couple examples, I have my garden shed with a 200w PSW inverter, it draws 5w (120Wh/day) on standby. It's connected to a 120Ah FLA battery on 200w of panel with a 20a MPPT controller. The inverter alarm goes off for low voltage after 6-8 weeks. My driveway lights have 300w of panel, also consume 120Wh/day and have MPPT controllers on a 36Ah AGM. It has to be jump-started with the Jackery every 4-5 weeks.

Having more battery capacity isn't going to help the generation problem, and 300w of panel for 120Wh/day Should be overkill, right?

I can't replace either of those with LFP because they spend a few days every year below freezing, unless I'm willing to drop $REALMoney on BB's. While I don't mind paying a little extra for features, the cost of those features is more than I can afford AND feed the wife & cats. Hopefully soon the cats will get jobs and help with the bills... I have a hard time swallowing that the temperature probes I throw away on a regular basis and buy for $8 on Amazon are worth $400 if they have the BB sticker on them.


Very true, and very handy to have.


But they still put out voltage, right? How many threads on here are about people's LFP packs not turning on without having to tweak them or log into an app, or get internet access connected, or breaking out a special charger to jump start them? I need a system that will run all the time, whether I'm home or at sea and not have to wait for me to come home and twiddle with an app so my battery will turn back on.

Take away your cell phone and computer and internet access and how well can you troubleshoot your batteries if/when something goes wrong?


I really do. In my use case it has many advantages over LFP. Hey @12VoltInstalls , wanna chime in while I'm at it? :D

My camp is unattended for upwards of a year at a time and completely off grid. It spends multiple months below freezing. When I AM home and get to run up there it's usually a couple feet deep in snow and the utility room stays well below freezing. FLA's will still function a week after I get there, LFP's will not having never gotten warm enough to charge without having to make some insulated-secondary-heating-battery-system to warm them up, and hope it can put in enough heat for them to not just crash again. It would take a LOT of extra work and money and fenagling with a stupid app to get my batteries to survive that.

My driveway lights are in a small case and spend a couple weeks at a time below freezing. I haven't seen any FLP's with low temp that would "just work" small enough to fit in there. See "Boat Anchor" above.

I can drive an hour and get a replacement FLA battery. I can also use any off-the-shelf car charger to top it up. Nobody within a few hundred miles of either my house OR my camp carries LFP's other than 1 battery shop that has a couple LFP motorcycle batteries. I'm not paying $250 for a 20Ah FLP with none of the features. Ain't gonna happen.

1x 12v 100Ah BB battery costs the same as 8x 120Ah FLA's and I have bills to pay.


So yeah, I think I'm just asking too much out of technology Right Now and hopefully things will even out better in a few years time. As for until then, it's just really frustrating. It feels like if you want to get into solar, you have to be the average no-temp-swings-perfect-weather-good-used-market, OR you have to be All-Victron-BattleBorn-Spare-Super-Yacht wealthy.

Sometimes people just need to vent, right? :D

Very fair points.

Adding a little water every six months is not bad. If you are doing heavy cycles daily, maintenance frequency goes up. I would have to top mine up once a month with my last FLA system.

No, good point, those inverters you cannot set the LVD. Which is a huge downside, and you are very correct. If you use a SOK, the LVD on their bms is very low, so those inverters would trip before the battery did. But if you are using other packs, the battery would trip before the LVD on the inverter. Thank you for mentioning that. I need to tell the manufacturers to add a DIP switch to change the LVD threshold. That should have been done years ago.

Lead acid does not like the cold either. I think the best performing battery for the cold is LFP with internal heaters. They do cost quite a bit and I do mention that people rarely need them, but they might work better than everything else for you.

Can you add another 100W panel to your system?

Why go for battleborn? I like them too, but they really are not special. What about a server rack pack with internal heaters? Cheaper, and better performance than any other lifepo4 or lead acid around. Just the usable capacity alone would be worth it, and it would be a fraction of the price of a battle born.

Ohh I see what you mean about cost now. Yeah, they can be expensive. I bet a 100W panel and some insulation around your lead acids would work well for you. No need to buy anything else for a system so small. In the long run, LFP is always cheaper, though.

All of these batteries should turn on with a voltage source. I tell people to use a alternator to wake them up. Maybe we could build a small device that can wake up a battery that can fit in your hand and cost very little. A alkaline battery and a $10 dc to dc boost converter. That way people won't have to spend extra money on a special charger.

If you are not cycling your packs much, and you are never home, lead acid might be ideal. Just need to ensure they stay at high SOC to avoid degradation. I think adding another solar panel would fix all of your issues for very cheap. Do you have a multistage lead acid SCC?

 

[Rednecktek]

Very fair points.

Adding a little water every six months is not bad. If you are doing heavy cycles daily, maintenance frequency goes up. I would have to top mine up once a month with my last FLA system.

Yeah, none of my systems get very heavy usage. The driveway lights are about a 30%DoD if they get no sun at all. My camp will once I get all the solar setup installed and revamped for a week at a time, once or twice a year... if they let me off the boat.

No, good point, those inverters you cannot set the LVD. Which is a huge downside, and you are very correct. If you use a SOK, the LVD on their bms is very low, so those inverters would trip before the battery did. But if you are using other packs, the battery would trip before the LVD on the inverter. Thank you for mentioning that. I need to tell the manufacturers to add a DIP switch to change the LVD threshold. That should have been done years ago.

So I'm not just missing something when people tell me to just program my inverter! Whew!

Lead acid does not like the cold either. I think the best performing battery for the cold is LFP with internal heaters. They do cost quite a bit and I do mention that people rarely need them, but they might work better than everything else for you.

I'm just terrified that the heaters will completely drain the batteries and they'll be a $2000 paper weight. That's a LOT of cat food to risk, ya know?

Can you add another 100W panel to your system?

Which system? I have 4 including the camp. I can stop any time I want, it's no big deal...

Why go for battleborn? I like them too, but they really are not special. What about a server rack pack with internal heaters? Cheaper, and better performance than any other lifepo4 or lead acid around. Just the usable capacity alone would be worth it, and it would be a fraction of the price of a battle born.

Because if I want a battery that I'll never have to log into, never have to worry about waking back up when it's dead, never have to worry about the cold, just want it to be as reliable as FLA, I'm told Battleborn is the only option. I'd love to see cheaper options though. Maybe when you do reviews you can put in a blurb about how abusive you can be to them in an off-grid-no-phone environment?

Ohh I see what you mean about cost now. Yeah, they can be expensive. I bet a 100W panel and some insulation around your lead acids would work well for you. No need to buy anything else for a system so small. In the long run, LFP is always cheaper, though.

Again, which system? The battery banks at camp will have 2" hard foam around them and 4x 100w panels on a 2s2p setup separate of the main system so when I disconnect the batteries there is still some charging all the time to keep them topped up. That one will be well below freezing for months on end.

The driveway lights have 300w of panel facing West due to a hill being in the way and trees all the way around. West is about the only clear path I have to point panels and NOT aim straight at trees or dirt. That one spends a couple weeks a year below freezing and uses the small AGM.

The garden shed has 2x 100w south facing panels and I don't know how I would mount a 3rd up there. The roof is pretty small facing south and I've already had to reinforce the roof to keep the panels from acting too much like a sail. That's got the big FLA in there and spends a couple weeks a year below freezing. The 40w light gets used maybe a half dozen times a month when I'm home.

I need to get something figured out for the sheds before the new ones are installed and that old one goes away. I'm hoping 800-1200w of panel can feed the lights in the 2 new sheds and the tenders and such that I'll have plugged in all the time.

All of these batteries should turn on with a voltage source. I tell people to use a alternator to wake them up. Maybe we could build a small device that can wake up a battery that can fit in your hand and cost very little. A alkaline battery and a $10 dc to dc boost converter. That way people won't have to spend extra money on a special charger.

THAT would sell!

If you are not cycling your packs much, and you are never home, lead acid might be ideal. Just need to ensure they stay at high SOC to avoid degradation. I think adding another solar panel would fix all of your issues for very cheap. Do you have a multistage lead acid SCC?

Yes, and unfortunately if I wanted to add any more panels to either of my small systems I'm running into physics issues. Am I wrong in thinking that 300w of panel should be able to do 120Wh a day? Sheesh!


Like I said, I think much of my frustration comes from being a fairly unique use case.

 

[Don B. Cilly]

I get it. LFP is not the thing for you. What I don't get is having to vent about them, but then :·)
Still,

How many threads on here are about people's LFP packs not turning on without having to tweak them or log into an app, or get internet access connected, or breaking out a special charger to jump start them?

How many, really? I've seen, like one :·) Which doesn't mean there aren't more, but... a lot? Really?
Even considering that if everything is just fine with one's batteries it's unlikely they'd post here saying, hey, my batteries are really OK, am I doing it wrong? ;·)... those are people who allowed things to happen to their batteries they really shouldn't have.
The BMS low-voltage disconnect is the last line of defence. It shouldn't happen.

About inverters settings, most people use AIOs, don't they? Which makes sense in many ways.
I have a Chinese Cheapo, 3kW, less than €400 new. It works for me. You can set low voltage.

So, lead acid is best for you. LFP is best for me (a lot better, actually, the sighs of relief can be heard for miles ;·)
-

 

[Rednecktek]

So, lead acid is best for you. LFP is best for me (a lot better, actually, the sighs of relief can be heard for miles ;·)

But I wanna play with the LFP Cool Kids too! Waahh!!! :D

Besides, when I start talking about power audits and BMS's and LiFePo4 peoples' eyes just glaze over. My watch partner is learning WWAAYY too much between 8pm and midnight for his own liking.

 

[wholybee]

LiFePO4 have far, far less gottchas and problems than Lead Acid. We are just all programmed to know how to deal with lead acid so we expect and deal with those issues without much thought about it. LFP has only a couple very easy to deal with issues, and we get confused because they go against our programming.

I do nothing to my LFP, ever, except use them. Once a month or so I check the BMS app and see that there have been no disconnects, everything is still balanced, etc. But I do no maintenance . No equalization cycles, no adding water, no making sure they are fully charged once a week, no worrying about only using 50%. My victron meter keeps an accurate tab of the SOC, when with FLA it only gave a rough approximation, and was often very wrong.

LFP is a godsend in the simplicity of how well it works.

 

[Ampster]

So, lead acid is best for you. LFP is best for me (a lot better, actually, the sighs of relief can be heard for miles ;·)
-

Yes, as with many things in life, it all depends on where you are standing.

 

[WYtreasure]

But I wanna play with the LFP Cool Kids too! Waahh!!! :D

Besides, when I start talking about power audits and BMS's and LiFePo4 peoples' eyes just glaze over. My watch partner is learning WWAAYY too much between 8pm and midnight for his own liking.

Start reading the the manuals for low-end charge controllers. All of the ones I have read, do not charge Lifepo4 batteries as they should. I don't know much but I do know when a manual says "you no drive on sidewalk".

I thought you needed some more issues with the LFP.

 

[FLD]

I have three off-brand lithium iron phosphate batteries, two 100ah and one 300ah. They work great. No complaints. Life is good.

 

[AKvalleyguy]

I wonder though, RNT... have you actually tried LFP (LiFePO4. Lithium Iron, whatever)?

I like the abbreviation, should RNT be added as RNT=rednecktek ? Hey, just having a little fun here. The sun is blasting away the long winter and my vitamin D levels are going up

But I wanna play with the LFP Cool Kids too! Waahh!!! :D

I was in the same boat as you, no pun intended. I've slogged around with FLA's for 17 years at multiple locations, toting the watering can and gallons of distilled water. "I feel your pain" as the former Pres. Clinton once said. But, since my locations are used and monitored every day, I'm making the switch to Lifepo4 (everytime I abbreviate I sort of involuntarily flinch). I could see your hesitation for sure. As much as I like the new tech, I would be hesitant in your situation. Hope I don't get FLA shamed or outright banned for saying that.