Can I live off-grid w/ generator and no solar to start out? here's my model

[FreeNatureFarm]

I need to power my off-grid cabin that I'm about to move into. I know this isn't the most cost-saving design, but i dont even know if it'll work to begin with. Here's what I'm thinking, and please tell me if I'm overlooking anything:

Start with: WEN 56380i Inverter Generator

--> (turning it on for a few hours, running AC output into...)

... the Renogy 60amp battery charger

--> (running that then into a...)

... Renogy 60amp charge controller

--> (which then runs into my...)

... Renogy LiFePO4 battery

--> (which is going to have connected to it a...)

... AiLi Battery Monitor.

Done.

So correct me if I'm wrong please, but this setup will charge one battery in a few hours correct?

Can I charge 2 batteries this way at once?

And, I know that Renogy LiFePO4 are rated for 50amp charge input, but assuming loss, a 60amp charger won't ruin it correct? I've read people getting away with charging 50amp rated batteries with 60amp chargers online.

Thanks again! I'm doing it all different when I can invest in solar later this year.
-s

 

[alcook62]

I believe you will have an issue with the Renogy 60A battery charger. The product that I'm familiar with is a DC to DC charger. If your generator has a DC charging port (a lot do) you may be able to use that. Also, until you have some solar panels you won't use a charge controller.

 

[Roswell Bob]

What are your loads? What is your battery pack voltage and amp hour capacity?

 

[FreeNatureFarm]

I believe you will have an issue with the Renogy 60A battery charger. The product that I'm familiar with is a DC to DC charger. If your generator has a DC charging port (a lot do) you may be able to use that. Also, until you have some solar panels you won't use a charge controller.

thanks for the help! you're right, didn't think about needing to do ac to dc. something like this should do the job then, right? https://www.amazon.ca/PowerMax-PM4-...locphy=9061009&hvtargid=pla-493951140228&th=1

the generator has a dc output but i think it'd have slower/less output because it's a cigarette lighter. but maybe dc to dc is always better than ac to dc?

 

[FreeNatureFarm]

What are your loads? What is your battery pack voltage and amp hour capacity?

thanks for the reply!

haven't looked into it yet. just know i'll need to charge my phone, and ipad, things for my off grid internet setup, and a water pump to speed of the gravity feed. but none of those things are going to be one 24/7, so i figured 2 renogy LiFePO4s would last all week to take care of those things, and then on the weekends i'll spend a few hours using a gas generator to recharge the batteries

 

[Nakinto]

Just one Renogy battery won't run just the Fridge overnight I am afraid. Also, that power converter is a huge - on the efficiency of the system. And I would dish out the couple hundred for a Honda over that WEN, huge difference in lifespan. I would also recommend a better charge controller if you get solar and NO charge controller needed without solar. I am assuming the battery charger you are referring to is

12V 60A DC to DC Battery Charger

Compatible with a multitude of alternator types, the DCC12 Series of battery chargers are the most effective way to charge your auxiliary or house batteries from the alternator/starter battery. Easily install the compact yet sturdy DC1212 on RV¡¯s, commercial vehicles, boats, yachts and many...

www.renogy.com

You don't NEED the AC-DC charger if you use the DC out of either gen, the WEN is a 5 amp and the Honda is an 8 amp output on the 12v side, but it will take days for either to charge a 100 AH battery.
Better to get an inverter/charger for a 24 or even 48v system and just tie the 120 AC from the gen into the inverter/charger. The good ones usually run 1500-2500 though.

 

[alcook62]

thanks for the help! you're right, didn't think about needing to do ac to dc. something like this should do the job then, right? https://www.amazon.ca/PowerMax-PM4-...locphy=9061009&hvtargid=pla-493951140228&th=1

the generator has a dc output but i think it'd have slower/less output because it's a cigarette lighter. but maybe dc to dc is always better than ac to dc?

That could certainly work, however it is much more than you need. Do yourself an energy audit and find out what you will be using, then you will know how many amp hours you need to replace. Will these batteries be used 24/7? Just weekends? I'm also concerned about your water pump. Is this a 12V RV style pump or a much more robust AC style booster pump? Anyhow, determine your consumption and then you can determine your best (least costly) option.

 

[FreeNatureFarm]

Just one Renogy battery won't run just the Fridge overnight I am afraid. Also, that power converter is a huge - on the efficiency of the system. And I would dish out the couple hundred for a Honda over that WEN, huge difference in lifespan. I would also recommend a better charge controller if you get solar and NO charge controller needed without solar. I am assuming the battery charger you are referring to is

12V 60A DC to DC Battery Charger

Compatible with a multitude of alternator types, the DCC12 Series of battery chargers are the most effective way to charge your auxiliary or house batteries from the alternator/starter battery. Easily install the compact yet sturdy DC1212 on RV¡¯s, commercial vehicles, boats, yachts and many...

www.renogy.com

You don't NEED the AC-DC charger if you use the DC out of either gen, the WEN is a 5 amp and the Honda is an 8 amp output on the 12v side, but it will take days for either to charge a 100 AH battery.
Better to get an inverter/charger for a 24 or even 48v system and just tie the 120 AC from the gen into the inverter/charger. The good ones usually run 1500-2500 though.

super useful info, thanks!

i don't have a fridge so no worries there. being a farmer means fresh food pretty much anytime. rice, beans, and potatoes in storage etc......

i wanted a huge batter charger/power converter because i don't want to spend days using an engine to top up the batteries. need to invest in something that can charge them up really fast in an afternoon.

you're right that the honda is pretty much a for-life generator, but the wen is just as quiet, with a lot more output for half the price, actually. im in canada, hondas are especially expensive. but i know the 2200i honda would be great, but for the half price, i get a 3800w inverter generator form wen, so idk, its tough. just not sure what i'll be powering off the generator at once down the line. right now i know the WEN i mentioned is severe overkill for my tiny cabin.

no charge controller without solar!? fantastic! so my renogy lifepo4 wont over fill or spill backwards into the generator? great! saves me a few hundred bucks for the time being

"Better to get an inverter/charger for a 24 or even 48v system and just tie the 120 AC from the gen into the inverter/charger. The good ones usually run 1500-2500 though." -- this confused me a bit. but it sounds good. i was looking at this pure sign wave inverter: https://www.amazon.ca/GIANDEL-Inverter-Control-Display-Outlets/dp/B07MMB23LS

...but that was to power things inside, drawing from the battery bank. i can charge a battery with that thing too? or did you mean something like this, only much bigger? https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/sunforce-ac-dc-converter-0111502p.html

if you know any brand that can charge the batteries faster than that little thing please let me know!

thakns again

 

[FreeNatureFarm]

That could certainly work, however it is much more than you need. Do yourself an energy audit and find out what you will be using, then you will know how many amp hours you need to replace. Will these batteries be used 24/7? Just weekends? I'm also concerned about your water pump. Is this a 12V RV style pump or a much more robust AC style booster pump? Anyhow, determine your consumption and then you can determine your best (least costly) option.

you're helping me out a bunch, thank you so much

i dont know how much i'll need, but 2 batteries for a phone, ipad, internet rig, kitchen appliances (propane stove and oven however) and water pump really feels like enough. charge things every other day, use everything for 2 hours a day? idk yet, but it feel like i'll need to charge the batteries up once a week.

i know my setup is ridiculously expensive and overpowered, but i'd rather invest in power now and see how far i stretch it all.

the water pump, yeah. i was thinking of getting a third, separate agm battery just for the outdoor kitchen 12v water pump, which also runs into the shower ideally. it would suck to need a stronger one, which i dont think i would. those big booster pumps im saving for another well on the farm.

thanks so much again, really hoping that powermax ac-dc converter is all i'm missing.

 

[alcook62]

You have a big investment in your lifepo4 batteries and properly maintained they will last you many years. The Powermax converter will certainly work for what you want it to do, however, you will also need an inverter to take advantage of any AC power that you want onsite. You might consider a quality inverter/charger such as the:

Renogy 2000 Watt 12V DC to 120V AC Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger w/LCD Display, Lithium Battery Compatibility 6000W Surge​

This is available through Amazon in the US for USD $614.61. With this you can charge your batteries quickly straight from the generator AC outlet. You can eliminate the Powermax and the Renogy 60A charger and gain an inverter. I still recommend an energy audit so you may more accurately gauge your needs.

 

[FreeNatureFarm]

You have a big investment in your lifepo4 batteries and properly maintained they will last you many years. The Powermax converter will certainly work for what you want it to do, however, you will also need an inverter to take advantage of any AC power that you want onsite. You might consider a quality inverter/charger such as the:

Renogy 2000 Watt 12V DC to 120V AC Pure Sine Wave Inverter Charger w/LCD Display, Lithium Battery Compatibility 6000W Surge​

This is available through Amazon in the US for USD $614.61. With this you can charge your batteries quickly straight from the generator AC outlet. You can eliminate the Powermax and the Renogy 60A charger and gain an inverter. I still recommend an energy audit so you may more accurately gauge your needs.

oh perfect! thanks, so this thing can charge my batteries but plugging straight from my generator? and then afterwards, i can run my batteries into it and run my appliances. huh, great product. it even says it can do 65amps charging output which is great. someone in the comments on renogy's site said this thing wouldn't charge their batteries to 100% for some reason.

thanks again!

 

[alcook62]

oh perfect! thanks, so this thing can charge my batteries but plugging straight from my generator? and then afterwards, i can run my batteries into it and run my appliances. huh, great product. it even says it can do 65amps charging output which is great. someone in the comments on renogy's site said this thing wouldn't charge their batteries to 100% for some reason.

thanks again!

Once properly installed it will work seamlessly and you will not have to connect/disconnect anything (other than appliances) to use AC electricity or charge the batteries.

 

[offgriddle]

When embarking upon my own fully off grid journey 6 plus years ago, I followed and still follow these same principles:
Begin small and simple, (I am still at the small and simple stage in many ways ie I am still using my original inverter from an auto parts store)!
Grow my power system as I learn from it.
Research, ask questions, be patient and spend money carefully and thoughtfully.
Keep solar power demands modest and sensible.
Don't be discouraged by those with deeper pockets.

Currently, I am still using my original 6,500 watt dual fuel generator to charge batteries during low solar gain days, pump water and for other high wattage demands. I typically run my generator every three to four days for a couple of hours.

A couple of years ago I upgraded from my lead acids to lithium iRon batteries, changed my SCC from PWM to MPPT and rewired my puny solar array from12 VDC to 24 VDC and that made a world of difference.

I heat the cabin and hot water in the winter exclusively with wood and I cook and heat summer hot water with propane.

Maybe some or none of the above scenario applies to you, either way, if you want to chat further about living third word in style, feel free to message me.

OG